Homily-Five Loaves and Two Fish

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Hi Cecilia! 👋

Good to see you here!! You are blessed to be a part of a parish like that!!

And yes, Frommi, I am wondering if in Chicago we have a REAL CATHOLIC CHURCH.🤷

Don’t get me wrong…good homily…didn’t match up with the gospel. I would think that there are plenty of readings that reflect this line of thought…this one not being one of them. I came away with the distinct message that there was no miracle that happened at all…except for God’s grace that touched the hearts of the multitude to share their wealth. Wonder how this thinking would apply to the wedding at Cana?..what, they all had little flasks of wine with them, maybe?:rolleyes:

I have been hearing these “no such thing as sin, hell, etc.” ideologies for years in my area…thought we might be done with all that with a “changing of the guards”, but to my dismay, guess what? This one is turning out to be as bad if not worse than the last one…ugh!!!
 
Teelynn said:
Hi Cecilia! 👋

Good to see you here!! You are blessed to be a part of a parish like that!!

And yes, Frommi, I am wondering if in Chicago we have a REAL CATHOLIC CHURCH.🤷

Don’t get me wrong…good homily…didn’t match up with the gospel. I would think that there are plenty of readings that reflect this line of thought…this one not being one of them. I came away with the distinct message that there was no miracle that happened at all…except for God’s grace that touched the hearts of the multitude to share their wealth. Wonder how this thinking would apply to the wedding at Cana?..what, they all had little flasks of wine with them, maybe?:rolleyes:

I have been hearing these “no such thing as sin, hell, etc.” ideologies for years in my area…thought we might be done with all that with a “changing of the guards”, but to my dismay, guess what? This one is turning out to be as bad if not worse than the last one…ugh!!!
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Well…the homily I heard certainly didn’t focus on the ‘miracle’ aspect…but if you listen to the gospel, it isn’t really explicit in how the crowd was fed. so to discuss with the congregation the expectation that we give from our poverty and not hold back when Jesus calls us to the table isn’t liberal hocus pocus mumbo jumbo.
 
frommi said:
Well…the homily I heard certainly didn’t focus on the ‘miracle’ aspect…but if you listen to the gospel, it isn’t really explicit in how the crowd was fed. so to discuss with the congregation the expectation that we give from our poverty and not hold back when Jesus calls us to the table isn’t liberal hocus pocus mumbo jumbo.
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It isn’t what the story was about either. This story perfectly illustrates the divinity of Christ and is or was commonly understood as a precourser to communion.

At least until the social gospel proponents got ahold of it and turned it into a teaching device on how to achieve what Christ envisioned for us here on earth. To remove the miraculous element completely or in your case to ignore it does a great disservice to the faith and lends credence to the argument that the story means something quite different than what it actually does.
 
cecilia97 said:
Hi Tee! 👋

Yes, I heard a few years ago at a former parish that the “real” miracle of the loaves and fishes was that everyone shared what they had. Er…yeah… That’s a nice thought, and there probably was some sharing going on, but that was not the miracle and NOT the point. When I hear that kind of thing in a Catholic church I sometimes wonder why the priest is not heading up his own denomination down the street.

This morning we were happy to get a lovely homily on how the loaves and fishes prefigure the Eucharist, and that there is grace left over after all have partaken. And father took the opportunity to talk about the couple of infamous abuses of the Eucharist in the news lately, and to remind us to go to confession.

My parish makes me wanna dance! :extrahappy:

ps…I love how the verbs in this gospel are the only other time we hear the actions from the Last Supper. Took…blessed…broke…gave. I can’t take credit for that, I read it in Scott Hahn’s book, but it’s just awesome!
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Wow, Cecilia…didn’t catch this!! Knew this gospel had a direct correlation to the Eucharist but didn’t catch the verbage! Can’t get more direct than that!!

I agree with you Palmas, this type of interpretation is completely contrary to this gospel. Jesus feeds us miraculously, both physically and spiritually. This one is ALL ABOUT JESUS.👍
 
Teelynn said:
Wow, Cecilia…didn’t catch this!! Knew this gospel had a direct correlation to the Eucharist but didn’t catch the verbage! Can’t get more direct than that!!
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I think it’s either from “The Lamb’s Supper” or Hahn’s Ignatius bible study commentary.

Matt 14:19

and he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, he said the blessing, broke the loaves, and gave them to the disciples, who in turn gave them to the crowds.

…I forgot about Luke 24:30 on the road to Emmaus…

And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
 
😦 Visited a neighboring parish with the reputation of having a very “conservative” (that’s all I’ve heard since he has arrived in town) new pastor…he talked all about the miracle of SHARING.:confused:

While, of course, sharing is a wonderful thing, and I highly recommend it and try to practice it as much as possible - this is NOT, I repeat NOT what this Gospel is about! It IS about Jesus LITERALLY and MIRACULOUSLY multiplying the loaves and fishes. Come on, He is God - this would not be a stretch - He did it and I believe it. We need to again start emphasizing the Divinity of Christ and get away from all of this “Buddy-Jesus”, sittin’ in a circle holdin’ hands, blowin’ kisses, and making collages nonsense.

Trying to explain away the miracles of Jesus is a very sad thing and I have no idea why any Catholic (and pastors of souls, no less!) would try to do such a thing.

Also, I believe there is a danger in “over-glorifying” the poor and we certainly see an (over)abundance of this in the opinions of many in the current age.

Sorry for ranting, but a young Sister has to do that sometimes, too! 😉
 
MrS said:
The Scripture is quite clear.

Jesus told them to bring the loaves and fish

Jesus blessed it

Jesus gave it to the Apostles (not just anyone)

They in turn were the ones to distribute, and when they ran out, they returned to the Lord for more.

The foreshadowing of Jesus performing the miracle, and of Jesus using His ordained priests to distribute the Bread of Life is of prime importance.

Feeding 5000 men and their families is not the same as the 5000 feeding themselves or sharing what they already had.

I think your priest needs a good Gospel commentary for a Christmas present.

.
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that was a lot of fish sandwiches he made.
 
palmas85 said:
It isn’t what the story was about either. This story perfectly illustrates the divinity of Christ and is or was commonly understood as a precourser to communion.

At least until the social gospel proponents got ahold of it and turned it into a teaching device on how to achieve what Christ envisioned for us here on earth. To remove the miraculous element completely or in your case to ignore it does a great disservice to the faith and lends credence to the argument that the story means something quite different than what it actually does.
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Keep in mind there is not an ‘obligation’ on the part of a homilistto preach on some pre-established theme as you or I believe it about a gospel. The homily could focus on the second reading if they chose.

You can have the best of both worlds with this stuff.
 
One thing I heard about this I had never heard before…the 12 wicker baskets of left overs symbolized the 12 tribes of Israe…Our priest called it a miracle and he said in all the them to look for what was left out…I guess he meant the 12 tribes rejected Christ
 
Our priest focused on the words “Bring them [the loaves and fish] to me.” He says we are called to bring EVERYTHING to Jesus - our sorrows, joys, sinfullness, holiness, triumphs, tragedies. It is when we give it ALL to Jesus (and Jesus knows what we’re giving and what we’re holding on to) that he can take what we offer, bless it, and fill us with Himself…so that we can take Him to the world around us.

Today at Daily Mass was the walking on the water gospel. The spin there, was that when we are calling out “Lord, save me!” (and we all go there at some times in our life) that we need to keep our focus on the Lord. When you’re sinking, don’t lose sight of the Lord.
 
Teelynn said:
He interpreted this gospel with an emphasis on the people feeding each other with what they already had.
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Ask your priest why he is so anti-Semitic.

He obviously believes that it would take a full blown miracle for Jews to actually share something, and that them sharing food would be such earth shattering news that it would still be talked about for thousands of years afterward.

I would rather not be so sterotypically bigoted as this priest, and assume that Christ created the food supernaturally as a foreshawdoing of the Eucharist.
 
Teelynn said:
OK - a lot of you have already been exposed to this interpretation, but for me, this is the first. Our priest gave a homily today on Matthew’s account of the Loaves and Fish.
Athough I am a cradle Catholic, I have not (until rededicating myself the last few years) had an extensive Catechesis (sp?) in younger years. (thus explaining my elementary knowledge:o )

He interpreted this gospel with an emphasis on the people feeding each other with what they already had. Because of my reconversion, IMMEDIATELY I saw all kinds of red flags. The essence of this was on “feeding the poor” and “charity”. WHAT?! I know that this gospel ties in with the Eucharist. What happened to that? What happened to the “Divinity of Christ”?
Does this alternative interpretation have any validity? For the last several years the every time I get this uneasy feeling is when the Holy Spirit seems to be hitting me on the head.🙂 Not that Charity and feeding each other is not according to the gospel, but what does it have to do with THIS gospel? My heart feels sick…and I’m not sure what for!?
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Of course your priest was talking about certain characteristics of the Christian - charity and looking after the poor. However, as others have said, this was not the homily that he should have paired with yesterday’s gospel. There are other gospel readings throughout the year where there can be no argument but that the point is that followers of Christ should feed the hungry, visit the sick and give what they have to the poor, etc.

I was at three Masses over the weekend, and I was happy to hear each priest draw parallels with the Eucharistic miracle which was to follow. In my opinion, this was a key opportunity for our priests to speak on the Eucharist - the miracle of the loaves and the fishes is quite inextricably linked with the Eucharist. There are so many comparisons and contrasts to be drawn even before one ‘scratches the surface’ of the gospel passage - both were miracles involving bread, Jesus praying and giving thanks, breaking the bread, nourishment of the body versus nourishment of the soul.

Having said that, I am not always so happy with the priests homily. I feel there are too many missed oppourtunites where priests could of spoken of the basics of our faith - something which I think is essential at the moment when the beliefs of Catholics are always under scrutiny. We hear of surveys being carried out which show that there are as many “Catholics” who don’t believe in the True Presence in the Eucharist as those who do; and I wonder how many ordinary Catholics on the street could put forward a compelling argument for our belief in the Eucharist, or the teaching authority of the Church… About three weeks ago the Gospel had several parables and Christ explained to the disciples that only they would understand what He was talking about. That weekend I was at four Masses and I thought it was an excellent chance for priests to explain about the teaching authority of the Church - to my mind, at least, Christ was saying that there would be a select few who would be able to see beyond the parables themselves - i.e. the disciples and the priesthood which followed… Perhaps I was the one missing the point (although, of course I understand there are many different ways of looking at Scripture).
 
The people who followed Christ out into the hills did so because they hoped he was the Messiah.

It’s a little hard to wrap our heads around just what that meant to the Israelites of that time: in our terms, it would be like winning the lottery and being elected president at the same time, since the Jews collectively would lead the human race forever after.

Now, if someone came along, said ‘Follow me, I’ve got your check for $200 million and the Chief Justice is waiting to administer the oath of office’, would you go with him, or would you say ‘Oh, I’ll be along in a while. First I need to cook some fish, maybe make a little bread, pack a nice lunch… go on ahead without me…’
 
Sam_Maloney said:
The people who followed Christ out into the hills did so because they hoped he was the Messiah.

It’s a little hard to wrap our heads around just what that meant to the Israelites of that time: in our terms, it would be like winning the lottery and being elected president at the same time, since the Jews collectively would lead the human race forever after.

Now, if someone came along, said ‘Follow me, I’ve got your check for $200 million and the Chief Justice is waiting to administer the oath of office’, would you go with him, or would you say ‘Oh, I’ll be along in a while. First I need to cook some fish, maybe make a little bread, pack a nice lunch… go on ahead without me…’
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Right Sam! I mean…was it customary for Jews to take food with them? Somehow, I can’t Imagine this…and I know in other gospels, that Jesus himself mentions the fact that “the people are hungry”. This just doesn’t ad up to me. This gospel interpretation that he thew out there is just wrong. The very first thing that went through my mind was "this gospel is supposed to be about Jesus…about Jesus feeding us, body and spirit…about His divinity…kept waiting but all he continued with was about social ills of the day.:confused:
 
Here is the passage - there is more going on here - He has healed them and then He feeds them.

Notice - the point about them being hungry and having nothing to eat.

It is obvious what is going on here, a miracle.

31 So that the multitudes marvelled seeing the dumb speak, the lame walk, and the blind see: and they glorified the God of Israel. 32 And Jesus called together his disciples, and said: I have compassion on the multitudes, because they continue with me now three days, and have not what to eat, and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.
 
buffalo said:
Here is the passage - there is more going on here - He has healed them and then He feeds them.

Notice - the point about them being hungry and having nothing to eat.

It is obvious what is going on here, a miracle.

31 So that the multitudes marvelled seeing the dumb speak, the lame walk, and the blind see: and they glorified the God of Israel. 32 And Jesus called together his disciples, and said: I have compassion on the multitudes, because they continue with me now three days, and have not what to eat, and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.
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Yes, a bonified miracle…not just a charismatic motivator that inspires them to "share ". :rolleyes: I think Jesus is not to be compared to…let’s say…a political motivator:rolleyes: …besides that…they have nothing to share anyway. The “sharing” message is a good one…but doesn’t even come close with the loaves and fish. The “Divine” Jesus…healing and feeding His Children miraculously, physically and spiritually as well.
 
Maybe the priest should get this thread emailed to him…

“Food” for thought… let the posters “share” with him.:rolleyes:

.
 
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