Homily on sexual morality

[thistle]

No, it is not irrelevant. The Church needs contributions to run. Our parish is already running in the red, I am afraid this is going to make things worse.

I am not suggesting that he not tell the truth, what I am suggesting is that there is a time and place, and I don’t think the homily is that time or place.

I totally disagree with that. How else is such a message going to be conveyed if not via the homily. These issues should be talked about often instead of priests pussyfooting around issues in order not to upset people who don’t want to be made aware of sins.
Our parish has one month every year where the priests during the homily go through all 10 Commandments.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am fortunate that my priest friends have been of great support.

I do have a relationship with the lead priest in our particular in our area (our diocese covers a pretty big area, so it is divided into smaller areas). I think I will make an appointment with him. If anything, I can share my concerns and the concerns that have been shared with me.

Indeed you are fortunate to have those friendships.

If you have a relationship with the priest who has oversight for your pastoral zone, by all means meet with him. It gives you someone to express your concerns and the concerns of others and it gives him someone he can obtain information from. It is to your mutual advantage.

In my diocese, a priest ordained only three years would be under close scrutiny from many directions.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I was at a mass where the homily was about transgenderism.

A homily on transgenderism? The homily is an explication of either a passage of the Scripture or a liturgical text. That is why the directive to give a homily and not a sermon vastly limits the range of topics one can address.

I would never address that topic in giving a homily…ever.

 

[otjm]

Well, none of the rest of us know what these other changes were (nor do we need to know). However, I have heard far more than one priest say that when one is put into a new parish, the unspoken advice is that the new priest waits 6 months before making any changes.

Since yo are well past that point of no return, people are going to sort themselves out,. Some will leave (and who knows where, if anywhere, they will go); some will go to another parish; some will hunker down and close off the pocket book, apparently on the mistaken idea they can punish the priest.

They are not punishing the priest; it is their parish and they are punishing the parish. Not that such a fact would slow them down, let alone change their minds.

And others will take to the new priest like a duck to water.

The same goes for priests who have been ordained longer - often far longer; but they usually have enough experience to know to go slowly.

As to the homily, I guess I would ask the naysayers when else and where else would be a good place to discuss it; and would they show? Would their friends show? Would everybody who comes to Sunday Mass at whatever time all show?

And the honest answer is… wait for it… NO!

I understand your concern. The new priest has moved too fast to make changes (6 months) and may have made too many too fast, even if he had waited that long. That results in unhappy people. And now this; so their are going to be (likely) more unhappy people, and some are going to be more unhappy than they already were.

Part of it may be how he handles each topic (assuming he addresses a number of them). One can skin a cat many ways; in the end the cat is still skinned, but some are more effective than others.

And part of the problem is that few parishes seem to ever have a “Come to Jesus meeting” on sexual issues, with the possible exception of abortion. So it is likely he is going to step on some toes, no matter how delicately he goes about it.

Take, for example, someone with a homosexual son or daughter, who has either a lover or a “married partner”. Likely, the parents already have enough anguish; and they likely are conflicted between not wanting to break their relationship with the child, while probably knowing that what the child does (as opposed to their inclinations) is wrong. That is not going to go down well at all.

Truth is truth, and needs to be spoken; but the repercussions can be enormous.

So I understand your concern. And the bottom is, there is nothing really you can do at all, except pray. You can speak to those who have confided in you, but it they are mad, it is likely you will not sway them.

Pray, and be very cautious of expressing much of any opinion; those who are not really listening may turn on you.

 

[pianistclare]

I love what Fr said…in fact, our pastor here is ordained just 5 years. The Archbishop has assigned a senior priest of the Archdiocese to mentor and regularly check in with all priests in the Archdiocese who have been ordained 5 years or less.
This Monsignor drops by and celebrates Sunday Masses for us about every 6 weeks. He meets with our Pastor and is always at the ready with advice, answers to questions about Administration of the parish, and personnel issues he may not have experience with. I had totally forgotten this, as Monsignor seems a good friend to us and not just to Father.
That’s a great idea for your Diocese.

And this, from otjm:

So I understand your concern. And the bottom is, there is nothing really you can do at all, except pray. You can speak to those who have confided in you, but it they are mad, it is likely you will not sway them. Pray, and be very cautious of expressing much of any opinion; those who are not really listening may turn on you.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think the issues with the priest disbanding the homebound ministry and so forth need to be divorced from his preaching a homily on sin. The homily topic in and of itself doesn’t really bother me. Keeping a lot of elderly people from receiving Holy Communion or seeing a priest, does, unless the priest had some reason for disbanding the ministry such as the people doing it not being properly trained or the service being requested by people who aren’t really homebound.

My mother saw one of those “homebound ministers” for a while and the lady caused her and me both a great deal of upset by trying to get overly involved in our family business and we had to have her stop coming over. I’m not saying that was the issue for your parish, but sometimes priests have reasons for what they do.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I need to clarify. He has told the EMHC that he will now take Holy Communion to the homebound, and only him, unless it is a spouse, and then only after he gives his approval.

Not quite sure how he will pull this off weekly, so that is the angst over this issue.

I don’t want to get into the issues, as there are many, I was just looking for any experience with the actual homily part.

 

[exnihilo]

I think you can’t judge this until you know the actual content of the homily. You mentioned ‘loaded’ words. I don’t know what you mean by that.

The Bible itself contains stories of sex acts, homosexual rape, murder, adultery and more. Jesus said things like you should cut your hand off. He talked about people suffering for eternity. The Bible and Scripture readings for the Mass contain subject matter that is adult. I remember reading my Bible as a kid and reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. I remember reading mentions of prostitutes in the Bible.

I didn’t experience it but I know a priest who preached against same sex marriage. During the homily someone got up and verbally challenged him. That person was removed from church. I had heard this same priest preach on the subject. He wasn’t graphic. He didn’t unfairly attack homosexuals. He kindly and gently explained the Catholic Faith.

 

[exnihilo]

This should be your real concern. The fact that he is so newly ordained and with so little actual experience. This is the situation where feedback needs to be given to the chancery and to the vicar forane/dean of your deanery

I find this odd as you typically advise us to not question priests as they have been trained and we laity have not. To be clear, if we have young priests you advocate keeping a close eye on them and reporting their activity to other priests?

And this is the fire alarm. Disbanding an established ministry to the home bound because the priest has radical traditionalist tendencies needs to be communicated to the chancery. Not only for the sake of the home bound, who will suffer, but for the sake of the ministers to the home bound, who have been displaced

Doesn’t the priest know things that we don’t? Shouldn’t we assume he made this change for good reason? Why would you assume the home bound will suffer from his change?

 

[1ke]

I just want to know if it has worked or not worked elsewhere.

Priests have preached about sexual immorality from the pulpit since there were priests. The priest was trying to be kind and considerate of parents with young family members.

He certainly wasn’t obligated to do so.

Instead, because of other changes your pastor has made, this is being received negatively as one more way to pile on. I would hope that you would do what you can to diffuse this by telling anyone complaining to you that this is perfectly normal, and if they have issues with changes around the parish they should talk to the priest about them rather than gossip and foment dissent.

This is very similar to when priests do something related to wedding vows around Valentine’s, Feast of the Holy Family, or other certain dates. Our priest used to have couples stand up and repeat vows or do a blessing… people who were divorced, widowed, or otherwise upset by this made a big stink in my parish one year because they were caught “unaware”. The priest started putting it in the bulletin a few weeks beforehand.

Perhaps people should stop to think that in the priest’s eyes putting this in the bulletin a few weeks ahead is perfectly normal, not a “change”, because maybe that’s the way they did it in the parish he was at previously. Maybe the pastor there had that practice, or in seminary they told him it would be a good idea, or the parishioners in his last parish ASKED him to do that-- you don’t know. Your fellow parishioners are ASSUMING some sort of bad intent… so…

TALK TO HIM!!!

 

[1ke]

Insert shocked face. This is one of the most important things a parish does, Lord, have mercy.

And here people are making assumptions.

The priest might prefer visiting the homebound himself. We do not have a homebound ministry in our parish. The priest personally takes communion to the sick, shut-ins, and hospitalized. He gets sick calls from all over and goes when called. He takes this ministry seriously.

I don’t know if there ever was such a ministry at our parish, but there hasn’t been in the 12 years I’ve been here.

It is going to depend on the size and geography of the parish whether lay people are needed for this or if the priest can handle it. Also, being NEW in the parish, he likely wants to personally visit sick and shut-ins to get to know them, introduce himself, hear confessions, and be personable.

Instead, people just assume the worst. How sad.

So again, someone needs to TALK to the priest, assuming all his motives are GOOD, and simply say something like, “I can appreciate that you want to get to know the shut-ins personally and minister to them since they are part of your flock, but the disbanding of the homebound ministry was rather abrupt and without talking to people about it. It left the people in that ministry feeling saddened and hurt. It sent the message that they aren’t needed or appreciated. They also had grown close bonds with the people they visit and feel they’ve been torn away from doing something important. Can we come up with a solution that helps resolve hurt feelings?”

 

[CilladeRoma]

And you too are making assumptions.

I came here asking a very specific question.

If anyone had any experience with the situation my parish has found itself in.
This is only a small part of the issues going on, and I wanted to hear, from other people’s experience, if this type of homily works or not.

The bulletin announcement was very graphic and abrupt in its wording and indicated that the homily would be the same- hence the warning. It was not several weeks ahead of time- it was one. Listed in the bulletin for 1/7/18 to be happening on 1/14/18.

What makes you, or anyone else here think that this priest has not had these concerns brought to him? I have been very active in my diocese, and this parish, as both a volunteer and employee. I have dealt with difficult people, both clergy, and laity. However, this is a whole new ball-game. I have never seen someone come in so hard & fast, without even taking the chance to get to know people or the parish. He is not the Pastor, he is an Administrator. There was nothing happening in my parish that needed “fixing”. Most, if not all of the changes he has made he has told us it is because of it it HIS preferences.

I did not come here to bash him, or to quote another poster be a “sloppy liberal”. I came here looking for experience and advice. Sadly, with some exceptions, I am very sorry I started this thread.

 

[signit]

In fact, recently one of our priests mentioned “the evils of same-sex unions” just as a small part of the homily and just then one person walked out.

 

[1ke]

I have never seen someone come in so hard & fast, without even taking the chance to get to know people or the parish. He is not the Pastor, he is an Administrator. There was nothing happening in my parish that needed “fixing”. Most, if not all of the changes he has made he has told us it is because of it it HIS preferences.

That is very unfortunate. If you or others have talked to him, I agree with others that it is time to talk to the Dean of your deanery or someone in the chancery office.

 

[Axsenex]

Internet Catholics don’t always represent the real world.

It’s easy to hide behind fake names & talk hardcore teachings but walk differently outside of this forum.

I remembered one main thing from our priest: Don’t believe anything you’ve heard from the internet without checking out official sources such as famous green book which is always being kept in my car & on my iPhone.

I’m sure he’s excited to showcase his knowledge & talk about hard truths.

Which is better life? Catholicism or not at all

 

[TheLittleLady]

I second this. A word up the chain of command ahead of time would not be wasted.

 

[qui_est_ce]

qui_est_ce:

I was at a mass where the homily was about transgenderism.

A homily on transgenderism? The homily is an explication of either a passage of the Scripture or a liturgical text. That is why the directive to give a homily and not a sermon vastly limits the range of topics one can address.

I would never address that topic in giving a homily…ever.

The homily just mentioned transgenderism in the context of the Scripture. I can’t remember the Scripture passage. It was a few years ago. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. This priest is a good and faithful priest and it was at the Cathedral during a week-day mass. Their homilies and the homilies at my parish have to be reviewed by the pastor first. That’s what this priest told me.

 

[exnihilo]

The bulletin announcement was very graphic and abrupt in its wording and indicated that the homily would be the same- hence the warning. It was not several weeks ahead of time- it was one. Listed in the bulletin for 1/7/18 to be happening on 1/14/18.

What do you mean by graphic and abrupt? What are the actual words said? The priest isn’t obliged to offer a warning so he isn’t obliged to offer one for several weeks in advance.

I have never seen someone come in so hard & fast, without even taking the chance to get to know people or the parish.

While it may not be prudent it is his right to make changes. That said I know a priest who was very slow in his approach to changes. He even explained the changes well in advance. That didn’t keep people from complaining. When people think things should be their way no amount of preparation will change their mind.

Most, if not all of the changes he has made he has told us it is because of it it HIS preferences.

Again that is his right. My priest allows things that aren’t my preference. I may not like that but it is his prerogative.

 

[exnihilo]

Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender

That was Pope Francis. This wasn’t in the context of a homily but I see no reason why it would be inappropriate in one.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The problem is that there are parents in the congregation, who have adult children who are gay.

I know a few in my own parish.

When a priest gives a homily as Mass with an “in your face,” immorality of being gay, it sends a message to the parents that they are supporting sin and are deficient themselves.

As Fr Ruggero stated, homilies are not sermons and should be centered around the readings of the Mass.

Another situation that my former pastor did, which I disapprove of, is that he placed a tombstone outside of the church front door. The tomb stone had engraved, “in memory of the unborn who died through abortion.”

My problem is that we know abortion is an intrinsic evil. However, consider the young woman who had an abortion in her past. Since then, she came to Jesus Christ and realized her sin. She went to Confession and repented of her sin. Now, everytime she comes to Mass, her sin is in her face. For her, forgiveness and mercy cease to exist in that moment.

So imagine your own sins being presented at the door of the church, to remind you of the evil you committed ?

Salvation isn’t about condemnation, but about God’s mercy and forgiveness.

Jim