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Don_Ruggero
Guest
Correct…
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CilladeRoma
Guest
It was never my intention to share the homily here.
My only intention with this post was to gain information from other people’s experiences.
There is a group of us, paid employees and volunteers who are trying to help smooth the waters. It has been an interesting few months and I really want to thank you @Don_Ruggero, for your wonderful, practical and pastoral advice. I pray daily for this young priest and all priests & Bishops, they certainly need our prayers.
My only intention with this post was to gain information from other people’s experiences.
There is a group of us, paid employees and volunteers who are trying to help smooth the waters. It has been an interesting few months and I really want to thank you @Don_Ruggero, for your wonderful, practical and pastoral advice. I pray daily for this young priest and all priests & Bishops, they certainly need our prayers.
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TheButler
Guest
Nothing adversarial intended and I never suggested that anything inappropriate will be said. That has all come from you.
I was under the impression that the teachings of the Church are for the masses, not a select few. I’m in the UK and not in a position to attend so a recording for me would be the next best thing, especially as it is so easy with modern technology. Of course the deliverer of the homily should be consulted and permission to post a video of him sought.
However there appears to be a consensus that public sharing of homilies is not appropriate and I submit to that.
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goout
Guest
The difficulty with these threads is they are almost entirely speculative in nature. No one can hear the tone of voice or the words delivered. So we are left to guess what might be, rather than having something substantial.
And no, please do not post the homily publicly.
One thing is for sure, the priest should flesh out (incarnation) the Gospel in his homily, and the homily should address the living Body of Christ in a living way. If that means a difficult homily, so be it.
Why should a priest shy away from discussing starving and bloated stomachs if he feels called to address the problem of hunger? Moral issues involve difficult and sometimes ugly images. Sexuality is no different. Discretion and common sense go a long way, but that is not an excuse to dodge pressing issues.
One thing we should not be doing is reflexively running to our bishop with complaints about priests. If our bishops had to field every complaint about homilies and music etc…they would get nothing else done.
Communication is key. The Gospel is communication. Church is community. Parishioners and clergy need to talk to one another respectfully.
I hope the days of heavy handed clericalism are over, where parishioners seek to subject their priests to higher authority in an effort to bend them to personal wishes.
And no, please do not post the homily publicly.
One thing is for sure, the priest should flesh out (incarnation) the Gospel in his homily, and the homily should address the living Body of Christ in a living way. If that means a difficult homily, so be it.
Why should a priest shy away from discussing starving and bloated stomachs if he feels called to address the problem of hunger? Moral issues involve difficult and sometimes ugly images. Sexuality is no different. Discretion and common sense go a long way, but that is not an excuse to dodge pressing issues.
One thing we should not be doing is reflexively running to our bishop with complaints about priests. If our bishops had to field every complaint about homilies and music etc…they would get nothing else done.
Communication is key. The Gospel is communication. Church is community. Parishioners and clergy need to talk to one another respectfully.
I hope the days of heavy handed clericalism are over, where parishioners seek to subject their priests to higher authority in an effort to bend them to personal wishes.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Many priests in our archdiocese make their homilies public on the parish website.
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goout
Guest
Yes but that’s in a spirit of good will for the edification of the faithful, not in a spirit of skepticism and suspicion like we are doing here.DeniseNY:
Many priests in our archdiocese make their homilies public on the parish website.
Big difference.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
What you call skepticism and speculation I call looking out for the pastoral needs of the parish.
I am the OP. If you have read the whole thread, you know that I have chimed in more than once saying my intention was to get other people’s experiences with homilies such as this.
I never had any intention of sharing said homily, or of running to the Bishop. If anything, I am trying to be the voice of reason for a bunch of very angry people.
I am the OP. If you have read the whole thread, you know that I have chimed in more than once saying my intention was to get other people’s experiences with homilies such as this.
I never had any intention of sharing said homily, or of running to the Bishop. If anything, I am trying to be the voice of reason for a bunch of very angry people.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
Yes, but that is their choice and their doing.
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Joe_5859
Guest
To that point, I can’t really help. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) I know I have heard homilies that allude to such things, but I can’t recall it ever being the central focus of the homily nor ever being particularly explicit.
I can understand why you feel wary about it. I’m all for priests courageously speaking the truths of our Catholic faith, but explicitly talking about sexual matters during a homily is a dicey proposition. I know I wouldn’t want that to happen with my children present. Knowing how many (or rather how few) actually read the bulletin, I would hesitate to think that the “heads up” was adequately disseminated just through the bulletin.
Hopefully, the priest is just being cautious and the verbiage won’t turn out to be as inappropriate as feared. I know how difficult transitions of priests can be in some cases. It sounds like you are doing your best to keep everyone from getting too riled up. Keep praying and supporting the priest any way that you can.
Do you feel like you are in a position where you could speak to the priest privately about your concerns and/or the concerns of others?
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pianistclare
Guest
Same thing has happened in our Archdiocese.
He was the one that said the graphic thing at the Mass I mentioned in my earlier post.
He still has a “following” though. Many people follow him wherever he goes. (subs)
He was the one that said the graphic thing at the Mass I mentioned in my earlier post.
He still has a “following” though. Many people follow him wherever he goes. (subs)
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Jehu2077
Guest
Only with regard to preaching on sexual immorality, I’ll say that the Priest at the Parish I’ve been going to handled it very well. He was blunt and unapologetic and laid out the Church’s teaching on almost every sexual sin. It took maybe two minutes. He then said “I could spend all day on Catholic Morality, but I won’t. Those are the Church’s teachings and we must hold to them” etc. He then spent the rest of the Homily preaching on St. Andrew and humbling ourselves to do what God has for us to do. He’s not afraid to speak on the hard things, but he’s also not going beat the drum all day. I think people should hear these things in Mass, the little ones too, but I understand the caution and it’s good that he put a disclaimer out there, especially if he wants to spend the whole homily on that teaching. I just think that if it’s not said in Mass, for some it may not be said ever.
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OraLabora
Guest
It seems to me that the homily is supposed to focus on the readings for the current day, and unless those readings touch upon the subject of sexuality/purity/bodily integrity (such as today’s second reading) then the homily should preach on the readings and not on extraneous subjects.
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Irishmom2
Guest
Well I believe today was the day this homily was supposed to take place in the OPs parish. Hopefully she will report back if it pertained to today’s reading or not. Just out of curiosity.
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CilladeRoma
Guest
So, today was the day.
It was about want I expected.
He started with the 2nd readings call against immorality, then referenced the previous few verses of the same chapter of 1 Corinthians about drunkards, adulterers, homosexuals, etc.
He had a “side-bar” on how he admires the great courage of his gay Catholic friends who live chastely despite what the world says.
He talked about the “contraceptive mentality” in the context of marriage as being abusive, and that sexual morality in marriage must be creative. He said that this is why pornography and masturbation was wrong, as it separated the sexual act from the creative aspect. He quoted both Humanae Vitae and St.Pope John Paul II. He never spoke of the unitive, loving side the marital embrace.
It was the how. He is delivery is like that of of more Evangelical type preacher, and he loudly, with emphasis, made sure we heard pornography, masturbation, formication, adultery, about 6 times each, in 7 minutes. The only thing he didn’t do was pound his fist on the ambo.
I was at the last Mass if the weekend. Attendance was much lighter than usual, but it is also freezing here and we had nearly a foot if snow yesterday, so weather could play a factor. I have about 15 emails that I have to read that have come from friends that went to other Masses. There will be some dialogue amongst us ( a group of parishioners and the ministry staff, along with a couple members of the parish council) and then we will then plan our next steps.
It was about want I expected.
He started with the 2nd readings call against immorality, then referenced the previous few verses of the same chapter of 1 Corinthians about drunkards, adulterers, homosexuals, etc.
He had a “side-bar” on how he admires the great courage of his gay Catholic friends who live chastely despite what the world says.
He talked about the “contraceptive mentality” in the context of marriage as being abusive, and that sexual morality in marriage must be creative. He said that this is why pornography and masturbation was wrong, as it separated the sexual act from the creative aspect. He quoted both Humanae Vitae and St.Pope John Paul II. He never spoke of the unitive, loving side the marital embrace.
It was the how. He is delivery is like that of of more Evangelical type preacher, and he loudly, with emphasis, made sure we heard pornography, masturbation, formication, adultery, about 6 times each, in 7 minutes. The only thing he didn’t do was pound his fist on the ambo.
I was at the last Mass if the weekend. Attendance was much lighter than usual, but it is also freezing here and we had nearly a foot if snow yesterday, so weather could play a factor. I have about 15 emails that I have to read that have come from friends that went to other Masses. There will be some dialogue amongst us ( a group of parishioners and the ministry staff, along with a couple members of the parish council) and then we will then plan our next steps.
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exnihilo
Guest
So he gave a homily on Catholic morality. What is the problem? I’ve encountered plenty of priests whose style in giving a homily isn’t my favorite. But what does that matter?
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JanSobieskiIII
Guest
I don’t get the problem either. I think more stuff like that needs preached on.
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adgloriam
Guest
Hey @pianistclare just wanted to say I frequently go to a parish where African priests celebrate mass. They are coming to Europe for whatever reason (furthering studies, health reasons, sabbatical license), and minister at that specific parish. All the ones I have met were top quality and I enjoy their homilies immensely. They have a specific sense of things that brings Africa with them, and I rejoice exceedingly knowing our African brothers and sisters have the privilege of enjoying such good priests.
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otjm
Guest
I have a bit of experience with sheep and shepherds. When I was about 7, my mother took me along to visit her uncle. Uncle John had a fenced off area behind the house, and being bored with grownups’ conversation, I wandered through the gate. Behold! when I moved, the sheep moved, and soon I was delightfully chasing them around the enclosure.
Which all came to an abrupt halt, when Uncle John rather smartly removed some dust from the seat of my pants, with the admonition that I was never to chase sheep.
A priest is in charge of the parish, and has the ability to make changes. He also owes the parishioners leadership in clear explication of the moral law - something which all too many, whether in the pews or not, seem never to have heard.
But above all, he owes every single one of them his pastoral care and concern. He needs to be a shephard who understands those in the pews are hisresponsibility, and he needs to shepherd them; not scatter the flock while shouting, swinging his staff whizzing over their heads, and whacking some on the backside. That does not include avoiding hot topics; but it most certainly does include honest and respectful treatment of them.
It was Voltaire who said “The problem with common sense is that it is not all that common”. It would appear that your priest administrator may lack more than a bit of common sense. Any priest, when dealing with parishioners needs to keep in mind that what he does or doesn’t do, and more importantly how he does/doesn’t is going to have an impact on people. The list of people who have left the Church, never to darken its doors again is exceedingly long. I fear he is adding to that list.
It is not his desire to address sexual morality (and it would appear he prepares in advance, considering the readings) which appears to be the issue, but his in-your-face delivery, both through words and tone.
Don Ruggero is a wise and experienced priest who has not only taught theology and been involved in formation of those to be ordained, but has also had experience dealing with issues gone wrong. His counsel is spot on.
Which all came to an abrupt halt, when Uncle John rather smartly removed some dust from the seat of my pants, with the admonition that I was never to chase sheep.
A priest is in charge of the parish, and has the ability to make changes. He also owes the parishioners leadership in clear explication of the moral law - something which all too many, whether in the pews or not, seem never to have heard.
But above all, he owes every single one of them his pastoral care and concern. He needs to be a shephard who understands those in the pews are hisresponsibility, and he needs to shepherd them; not scatter the flock while shouting, swinging his staff whizzing over their heads, and whacking some on the backside. That does not include avoiding hot topics; but it most certainly does include honest and respectful treatment of them.
It was Voltaire who said “The problem with common sense is that it is not all that common”. It would appear that your priest administrator may lack more than a bit of common sense. Any priest, when dealing with parishioners needs to keep in mind that what he does or doesn’t do, and more importantly how he does/doesn’t is going to have an impact on people. The list of people who have left the Church, never to darken its doors again is exceedingly long. I fear he is adding to that list.
It is not his desire to address sexual morality (and it would appear he prepares in advance, considering the readings) which appears to be the issue, but his in-your-face delivery, both through words and tone.
Don Ruggero is a wise and experienced priest who has not only taught theology and been involved in formation of those to be ordained, but has also had experience dealing with issues gone wrong. His counsel is spot on.
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otjm
Guest
It is not the issue - sexual morality - that is the problem. It is the delivery. I have no problem whatsoever with bringing up sexual morality in a homily, especially considering that today’s readings are a point from which to start.
it is, rather, the delivery. I have been involved in Catholics Returning home, working with people, some of whom left the Church years ago, over in-your-face deliveries such as this.
There are many ways to skin a cat. Using a dull razor is not one which merits consideration. Addressing people in the manner noted is not exactly new to some of us who were born well before Vatican 2. When I wanted to teach my children issues of morality, I did not use a loud voice, I did not hector; I treated them with dignity. I made clear what I was teaching them - but did so with the love I had for them. Love is not argumentative, nor abrupt, nor in-your-face. It leads from the front, not prodding from the rear.
This priest may well be a scholar of moral theology. He appears to have missed any classes on pastoring.
The issue is not that morality needs to be preached on - we can all agree on that. It is about how it is preached on.
it is, rather, the delivery. I have been involved in Catholics Returning home, working with people, some of whom left the Church years ago, over in-your-face deliveries such as this.
There are many ways to skin a cat. Using a dull razor is not one which merits consideration. Addressing people in the manner noted is not exactly new to some of us who were born well before Vatican 2. When I wanted to teach my children issues of morality, I did not use a loud voice, I did not hector; I treated them with dignity. I made clear what I was teaching them - but did so with the love I had for them. Love is not argumentative, nor abrupt, nor in-your-face. It leads from the front, not prodding from the rear.
This priest may well be a scholar of moral theology. He appears to have missed any classes on pastoring.
The issue is not that morality needs to be preached on - we can all agree on that. It is about how it is preached on.
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NickyMaz
Guest
I applaud this priest for giving this homily! It needs to be said, with fierce conviction!
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