Homily on sexual morality

[exnihilo]

Yes, this is exactly what he said, along with "No one is required to have communion every week.

So, I am disbanding the ministry and will take care of it myself, as my schedule allows, hopefully once a month."

He is right. He has that prerogative. It may be not the best decision, or his motivation may not be expressed as well as it could be. But it remains his right.

He has not been there long enough to know of any abuses, and our former Pastor kept a very tight reign on this ministry. If he ever heard of something even a little suspicious, he investigated. If there was an issue, it dealt with swiftly.

That you don’t know. Maybe a new abuse cropped up. Maybe the prior pastor let some things slip or he just didn’t know about something. Unless the pastor disclosed to you any and all problems, which he shouldn’t have, you just don’t know.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Do they tell you that the Church teaches these are not sins? That is the difference.

I can think what I choose to think. Most adults in the modern age know that the Catholic Church does not think these are fine.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The OP changed from disliking the homily, to disliking just about every change the new priest has made. We get new pastors every 10 years or so. It’s very hard on the new pastor because people get attached to the old one. Our new pastor said he wouldn’t make any changes for a year. Well, he did make a change. He changed the holiday mass from 9:30 and kept the 8 AM mass. Now, when I have a day off, I don’t want to get up early for mass! I do email him every time that I’m disappointed. I also email him whenever I think he gave an awesome homily. And that’s a lot of emails.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The virtue of Prudence is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[babochka]

Do they tell you that the Church teaches these are not sins? That is the difference.

No, of course not. They just think they know better than the Church.

I was responding to a question about knowing Catholics who think that homosexual marriage is fine, not what they think the Church teaches on these issues.

 

[CilladeRoma]

If you’d been following all along, instead of judging me, you would know that in the original post, I alluded to some of the changes that were being made.

I have been through many priest changes over the years. Never, and I mean never, have I experienced what we are now.

This priest is not yet out pastor, he is only an administrator. He has been with us since the middle of November.
The homily was just the latest in a series of things that has people frustrated, sad and sometimes angry.

I can’t help it if people do not read every post in a thread and only reply to what they want.
So I am replying to what others post.

All I have to say is that I hope that none of you ever have to deal with the things that have happened to my parish. I, up until about 6 months ago was an employee, and am still (for the time being) a very active volunteer. One of the main reasons I was brought in by the former pastor was to train EMHC and offer Adult education. I worked very closely with our Pastor on our Visitation ministry and it was considered a model for the diocese. I still travel to other parishes and help them to train their people.

All of this, the homily, the visitation ministry, and a whole host of other things have taken a great toll on our parish. One would think that a Priest administrator would want to go slow, get to learn about his flock and then educate them, rather than bash them over the head with his desires.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If you’d been following all along, instead of judging me, you would know that in the original post, I alluded to some of the changes that were being made.

I have been following the entire thread. I take time to read through the thread before responding.

This priest is not yet out pastor, he is only an administrator. He has been with us since the middle of November.

The homily was just the latest in a series of things that has people frustrated, sad and sometimes angry.

Same with our priest. Had to spend a year as Parochial Administer before he was elevated to pastor.

I can’t help it if people do not read every post in a thread and only reply to what they want.

So I am replying to what others post.

All I have to say is that I hope that none of you ever have to deal with the things that have happened to my parish.

Oh we have under a previous pastor. Lots of people left.

All of this, the homily, the visitation ministry, and a whole host of other things have taken a great toll on our parish. One would think that a Priest administrator would want to go slow, get to learn about his flock and then educate them, rather than bash them over the head with his desires.

I guess that’s where the call to obedience comes in. It’s not our call. I do question “his desires” he is a man of the cloth after all. He made a vow of obedience to the bishop.

 

[Brendan_64]

A priest is entitled to give a sermon on any aspect of Church teaching. No area of Church teaching should be considered ‘off-limits’.

The concern should be if he teaches something not in line with Church teaching, rather than taking exception with the area of Church teaching he wishes to address.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I don’t necessarily disagree.

However, this particular homily was a little over the top.
And, he did not teach anything that was wrong, he did not, however, teach the whole story either.
For example- when talking about marital love- he talked only about the creative aspect of it. Never once did he talk about the unitive bond of the marital embrace or how important that was to a marriage. He just kept talking about being “open to creation” and that if you are not, that is a sin.

Last I remember, that is not exactly Church teaching, it is a little more nuanced than that. If that was Church teaching, most of the women I know are sinning since they are no longer able to “create” life.

 

[exnihilo]

No that is exactly Church teaching. It isn’t every single bit of Church teaching, but no homily is. A priest could say in a homily that we should give to the poor. Just because he doesn’t say that is only if we have money left over after taking care of our family doesn’t make his homily wrong or even really incomplete. It is always the morality of sex that causes the most complaints.

 

[omgriley]

This priest is young, a convert,

You keep referring to the priest as “young” as if this is a bad thing or if his youth adds something to the situation. You’re simply using something which he cannot affect (his age) to impugn him. The fact is youth is not bad.

and has immersed himself in many pre-Vatican II traditions.

Oh no! Not pre-Vatican II traditions! Say it ain’t so! Your description of Traditionalist minded Catholics is disparaging. There’s nothing wrong with having an affinity for traditionalism or implementing it in your parish.

 

[Joe_5859]

I just have to say that it’s not uncommon for people to use CAF as a soapbox for complaining about priests, but your thread is definitely different from those. I think you have been very fair in your posts. I greatly sympathize with your situation. I’ve always been a proponent of the “don’t change anything your first year” school of ministry. Of course, there are necessary exceptions to this, but I can see why people in your parish are being rubbed the wrong way.

Has anyone had a conversation with the priest and let him know how some of his actions are being perceived?

 

[Brendan_64]

Being open to creation simply means not using contraception. Using contraception in marriage is deemed to be sinful.

Married couples past the age of child-bearing are not blocking creation by continuing to have sex. People in this situation are still open to creation because they are not blocking creation.

 

[TheLittleLady]

So true, people become enamored with “buzz words” and use terms that don’t really mesh with Church teaching.

Each act must be ordered toward procreation. That fits every spouse at every stage of their life. That can be said in any situation as well!

 

[CilladeRoma]

Yes, being young and being a recent convert are both relevant.

His age brings in his inexperience in dealing with people and being a “boss”. Both of which he admits are problems for him.

As far as attaching himself to pre-VII traditions, I have no problem with what he wants to do personally.
My issue comes with people who never knew anything or had any experience with the pre-VII Chruch who come in and start telling those who lived through it how wonderful it was.

Look, I am not anti-priest, anti-traditon or a raging liberal.

I am watching my parish implode because of some very bad choices that have been made by a young, inexperienced priest. It is very difficult and sad to see. I started the original post to see if anyone else had ever had any experience with a situation like this. From most of the replies- it has been no, no real experience, but hey, we think it’s great!

Well, it’s not so great. In fact, it is heart-breaking.

 

[ChunkMonk]

And would he say that the laity decide which they ‘need’? Does the child get to choose it’s own punishment? Does the child get to dictate to it’s father and teachers what it will learn today?

I’d say the parish being described in this thread is in serious need of a physical spanking, much less a passionate homily.

And as a final question: does ypur rule apply to priests who give moderate homilies? I like passionate homilies. I like fire and brimstone. So if I decide to damn myself because all the priests I can find give me soft and gentle when I want hard and brutal, are they now to blame for my damnation?

Or is it only when a spoiled brat gets mad because they got a lecture that the priest is on the hook?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Thanks @Joe_5859

Yes, some of us tried to discuss the visitation ministry thing. He did not want to discuss it. Said it was not because of any abuse or anything, he just felt it was unnecessary to have so many EMHC (we had about 25) bringing communion every week to the homebound, as it is not necessary to receive communion every week.

We all understand this, our homebound do not though. They feel as though they are being “punished”, and I can’t say as I blame them.

We have a Pastoral Council meeting next week. We have attached some talking points to the agenda that have been brought to our attention. We are now waiting for the priest to reply and confirm our agenda.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are also people at Mass who know Catholic morality but don’t live it. They need their conscience tweaked.

^^This was totally me. As I already posted, I was one of those people who spent a number of years sitting in the pew on most Sundays despite the fact that I was living a sexually sinful lifestyle in a number of respects outside of church, and I do not know how I would have reacted if a priest had addressed the issue head-on as concerned me. Not a married person cheating or using contraception, but me as a single person. I think on some level, never hearing it mentioned from the pulpit made me think the prohibitions on sex were kind of old hat/ pre-Vatican II/ not a big deal/ “who does that anymore”. etc.

Maybe we don’t need strong homilies every week, or the same topic preached on repeatedly, but bringing it up once in a while wouldn’t hurt and could possibly help. We need to stop coming at this from the assumption that everybody out there has already rejected the Church and committed these sins and is now working on healing old wounds. There are a LOT of people who may be in the early stages of sin or teetering on the brink who might need a shove away from the cliff that they are no longer getting from society or their parents or their peers or their neighbors, etc.

Also, we need to be careful not to make homily topics “all about not hurting someone’s feelings”. God is going to judge you someday and he might not be in the mood to sugar coat what you did.

 

[exnihilo]

As far as attaching himself to pre-VII traditions, I have no problem with what he wants to do personally.

My issue comes with people who never knew anything or had any experience with the pre-VII Chruch who come in and start telling those who lived through it how wonderful it was.

Your adding to your litany. Some aspects of the Church then were wonderful. Some may have been awful. If he thinks everything was perfect at that time then I’d disagree with him. But we are talking about opinions and he has a right to his as much as you do yours. You may not be understanding or relaying his adequately.

I am watching my parish implode because of some very bad choices that have been made by a young, inexperienced priest. It is very difficult and sad to see. I started the original post to see if anyone else had ever had any experience with a situation like this. From most of the replies- it has been no, no real experience, but hey, we think it’s great!

I’ve experienced a very good and orthodox priest run out of a parish because he implemented some changes well into his pastorship and after educating the laity as to why. I’ve seen what angry lay people can do to a dedicated priest. That is sad to see when it is the priest who dedicates his life in a special way in service to the laity.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’ve experienced a very good and orthodox priest run out of a parish because he implemented some changes well into his pastorship and after educating the laity as to why. I’ve seen what angry lay people can do to a dedicated priest. That is sad to see when it is the priest who dedicates his life in a special way in service to the laity.

Additionally, our church is not based on the cult of the pastor. That’s like people saying they left the Church over the abuse scandal.

I also don’t see where this priest prevented visitation to the home bound. One can still visit them without Holy Communion. Our bulletin publishes TV and radio mass times for the home bound.