Homily?

[whiteyacht]

Today at Mass, we were given a “homily” by a Maryknoll sister. She was there to appeal for donations through our diocesan co-op, or something like that. At any rate, here is my question:

Is it even mildly appropriate for an unordained person to speak during the part of Mass usually reserved for the homily? I could have understood the sister giving a short speech at the end of Mass. But a sermon? In an effort to not be outraged, I’ve been telling myself that we just didn’t have a homily today.

On a side note, my parish is the most conservative one in the city. That is why I was so shocked that this happened. I am sure our priest was unhappy about it. He sat behind the altar, instead of the presider’s chair, during the “homily.”

 

[Joan_M]

whiteyacht:

Is it even mildly appropriate for an unordained person to speak during the part of Mass usually reserved for the homily? I could have understood the sister giving a short speech at the end of Mass. But a sermon? In an effort to not be outraged, I’ve been telling myself that we just didn’t have a homily today.

No, it is not the slightest bit appropriate!

On a side note, my parish is the most conservative one in the city. That is why I was so shocked that this happened. I am sure our priest was unhappy about it. He sat behind the altar, instead of the presider’s chair, during the “homily.”

Your priest was “unhappy” about it? Why - he is the one that let it happen! How can anyone usurp the homily without the cooperation of the priest? I do not understand that at all.

 

[whiteyacht]

Joan M:

Your priest was “unhappy” about it? Why - he is the one that let it happen! How can anyone usurp the homily without the cooperation of the priest?

Well, I think since the sister was there in partnership with the diocese, he was required to let her speak by the diocese. He is a very orthodox priest; I can’t imagine him letting her give a homily without putting up some fight! But I don’t know the details. I sincerely HOPE he didn’t just let her.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

I’ve seen nuns speak after a homily on behalf of a mission. There should be a homily first, with an introduction of the speaker and why he/she is there. It may have been an oversight by your priest, but I don’t think anything wrong went on.

 

[whiteyacht]

Detroit Sue:

There should be a homily first, with an introduction of the speaker and why he/she is there.

That makes sense. He did the usual announcements before the homily, but then just introduced her and sat down.

 

[Joan_M]

Detroit Sue:

I’ve seen nuns speak after a homily on behalf of a mission. There should be a homily first, with an introduction of the speaker and why he/she is there. It may have been an oversight by your priest, but I don’t think anything wrong went on.

Yes, it was wrong. I quote from para. # 64 of Redemptionis Sacramentum , published by the Vatican on April 23, 2004:

The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Litugy itself, should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

I should point out that “layperson” includes nuns, since they are not clergy.

 

[newsjag]

Usually when someone speaks at the time of the homily, the priest will introduce the person and the speaker will have a message that is relative to the readings, at least this is my experience. I can understand how you would feel cheated. I LOVE a great homily also. When something unfortunate like this happens, there are several things that you can do:

• Try to find the message in what the speaker spoke of. Do not shut them out. Obviously someone thought what they have to say is important.
• Talk to your priest and mention that you were disappointed not to get his homily. Ask if he has a copy of his homily (if he types it out) so that you can read it and learn from it.
• Meditate on the readings. Re-read what you have heard and pray on it.

Sorry that you were disappointed with your “homily.” i hope you did not let it bother you the rest of the mass. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

 

[Coder]

I can’t help but wonder if things like this are subtle methods of getting people “used to” and garnering support for the idea of women priests.

In a past thread I wrote about the leader of our CCD program who at CCD orientation in front of parents and students spoke strongly and blatantly that there should be women priests. She said some bishops support it. She said the Church changes from the bottom up. I spoke to the priest about it and made it clear that I was not happy about this. I have tolerated so much dissent in this area - it’s hard to believe it has been allowed to go on. Also, she studies at Boston College and they have courses there with materials that apparently promote the idea of women priests.

Perhaps although your priest is faithful to the magisterium, other authorities in your diocese are open to the idea of women priests so they allow this.

Also, in our area the situation seems to have actually improved somewhat but I am still concerned that many have a goal of women priests.

 

[CRW]

Today at Mass, we were given a “homily” by a Maryknoll sister. She was there to appeal for donations through our diocesan co-op, or something like that. At any rate, here is my question:

Is it even mildly appropriate for an unordained person to speak during the part of Mass usually reserved for the homily? I could have understood the sister giving a short speech at the end of Mass. But a sermon? In an effort to not be outraged, I’ve been telling myself that we just didn’t have a homily today.

On a side note, my parish is the most conservative one in the city. That is why I was so shocked that this happened. I am sure our priest was unhappy about it. He sat behind the altar, instead of the presider’s chair, during the “homily.”

Complementary Legislation for the Canon 766 - Lay Preaching (USCCB):
"The lay faithful who are to be admitted to preach in a church or oratory must be orthodox in faith, and well-qualified, both by the witness of their lives as Christians and by a preparation for preaching appropriate to the circumstances.

The diocesan bishop will determine the appropriate situations in accord with canon 772§1. In providing for preaching by the lay faithful the diocesan bishop may never dispense from the norm which reserves the homily to the sacred ministers (c. 767§1; cfr. Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 May 1987, in AAS 79 [1987], 1249). Preaching by the lay faithful may not take place within the Celebration of the Eucharist at the moment reserved for the homily."
As President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, I hereby decree that the effective date of this decree for all the dioceses of the Latin Church in the United States will be January 15, 2002.

 

[CRW]

I’ve seen nuns speak after a homily on behalf of a mission. There should be a homily first, with an introduction of the speaker and why he/she is there. It may have been an oversight by your priest, but I don’t think anything wrong went on.

Ceremonies of The Modern Roman Rite, by Peter J. Elliott:

“Notices should not be read before or after the homily, unless the people need to be reminded of a collection or given a sacramental or liturgical directive.”

Complementary Legislation for the Canon 766-Lay Preaching (by USCCB)

"The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:

If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful.

In order to assist the diocesan bishop in making an appropriate pastoral decision (Interdicasterial Instruction, Ecclesiae de Mysterio, Article 2 §3), the following circumstances and cases are illustrative: the absence or shortage of clergy, particular language requirements, or the demonstrated expertise or experience of the lay faithful concerned.

The lay faithful who are to be admitted to preach in a church or oratory must be orthodox in faith, and well-qualified, both by the witness of their lives as Christians and by a preparation for preaching appropriate to the circumstances.

The diocesan bishop will determine the appropriate situations in accord with canon 772§1. In providing for preaching by the lay faithful the diocesan bishop may never dispense from the norm which reserves the homily to the sacred ministers (c. 767§1; cfr. Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 May 1987, in AAS 79 [1987], 1249). Preaching by the lay faithful may not take place within the Celebration of the Eucharist at the moment reserved for the homily."

 

[cheddarsox]

I suspect what the nun gave was NOT a homily. She was speaking about her mission, NOT preaching on the reading. I suspect the priest opted to forgoe the homily (as is often done in daily Mass) to allow time for this sister to speak on her mission.

In an effort to have this message received by the maximum number of people, she was allowed to speak in leiu of a homily, thus keeping Mass length to the usual time and not having people walk out on her message as would probably be the case if she spoke after the Mass. Having her speak before the Mass would not be functional (not enough people there) or appropriate(time for people to get into mindset and heartset for worship) either.

While it may be less than desireable to have this message shared within the context of the Mass, it does not autimatically constitute that the nun was preaching a sermon. It was probably done out of practical reasons (as mentioned) and in an effort to have people understand the good work that is being done by the Catholic religious and prepare them to be generous for the special offeratory collection that followed.

Sometimes we are very quick to judge and cry “foul! abuse!” against the church or priest when it is the ungenerous behavior of the parishoners (unwillingness to stay an extra 5 or 10 minutes to hear such a message) that causes them to make these decisions.

cheddar

 

[puzzleannie]

Today at Mass, we were given a “homily” by a Maryknoll sister. She was there to appeal for donations through our diocesan co-op, or something like that. At any rate, here is my question:
."

If this happened in October on or close to Mission Sunday you probably heard a presentation from a Maryknoll nun as representative of a missionary order soliciting funds and donations, which is the common, accepted recommended practice on Mission Sunday. It is preferred that a missionary priest give an actual homily, but obviously there would not be enough priests to address every parish, so this nun came instead. You did not hear a homily by definition because only ordained men can give homilies. You heard an appeal, in the context of a story or other vehicle. The priest should have given a homily after the Gospel, no matter how brief, but if he chose not to, that is not the nun’s fault. She probably spoke from the location she was directed to use. If the priest told her to use the ambo that is not her fault either. Such addresses should be given after the period of silence after communion and before the closing rites, but if the priest directed her to speak after the Gospel, that is not her fault either.

I would guess this priest probably knows from experience that if he extends Mass by even 5 minutes for both a homily and the appeal (which is recommended by the bishops) his parishioners will give him a lot more flak for delaying their breakfast or the start of the football game.

 

[cheddarsox]

If this happened in October on or close to Mission Sunday you probably heard a presentation from a Maryknoll nun as representative of a missionary order soliciting funds and donations, which is the common, accepted recommended practice on Mission Sunday. It is preferred that a missionary priest give an actual homily, but obviously there would not be enough priests to address every parish, so this nun came instead. You did not hear a homily by definition because only ordained men can give homilies. You heard an appeal, in the context of a story or other vehicle. The priest should have given a homily after the Gospel, no matter how brief, but if he chose not to, that is not the nun’s fault. She probably spoke from the location she was directed to use. If the priest told her to use the ambo that is not her fault either. Such addresses should be given after the period of silence after communion and before the closing rites, but if the priest directed her to speak after the Gospel, that is not her fault either.

I would guess this priest probably knows from experience that if he extends Mass by even 5 minutes for both a homily and the appeal (which is recommended by the bishops) his parishioners will give him a lot more flak for delaying their breakfast or the start of the football game.

it sounds so much better when you explain it than when I do!

cheddar

 

[Mattapoisett64]

I would guess this priest probably knows from experience that if he extends Mass by even 5 minutes for both a homily and the appeal (which is recommended by the bishops) his parishioners will give him a lot more flak for delaying their breakfast or the start of the football game.

And - based on our experience with the annual appeal for the Retirement Fund for Religious - more flak, less money. Sad, but true.