Homosexual Acts are Not Against the Natural Law

[DavidGonzalez]

It seems to me that homosexual acts are not against the Natural Law.

The argument to the contrary usually goes as follows:

1. God created the universe and everything in it not haphazardly but with purpose.
2. We can discover God’s intention by analyzing his design of the universe and everything in it.
3. The male reproductive system and the female female reproductive system are designed for each other.
4. Therefore, God’s plan for human sexuality involves opposite sex relations.
5. The male reproductive system is not designed for another the male reproductive system. The same is true for the female reproductive systems.
6. Therefore, same sex relations are not part of God’s plan.

The problem is that this argument focuses on the external design of the body while ignoring the internal design. Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

Now why would God design some people for opposite-sex relationships in their exterior body but same-sex relationships in their interior life? I have no idea. But it doesn’t really matter. If God designed it that way, then who am I to judge?

So if we want to respect the Natural Law, then we have to accept same-sex relations because it seems to be the case that God himself designed some people that way on the inside even if not on the outside. To put it crudely, even if the exterior parts don’t fit, the interior ones sure do.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Homosexuality is a spiritual disorder.

 

[Kurisu35712]

Homosexuality is a spiritual disorder.

Ehh… Homosexuality is “objectively disordered,” not a spiritual disorder.

 

[rick607]

Using your logic : There are some people who cant seem to stop stealing. God created people , Therefore stealing is God given trait.
Sorry , Sin is the cause of homosexual desires same as lying, adultery , murder , pick your sin.

 

[edwest2]

It seems to me that homosexual acts are not against the Natural Law.

The argument to the contrary usually goes as follows:

1. God created the universe and everything in it not haphazardly but with purpose.
2. We can discover God’s intention by analyzing his design of the universe and everything in it.
3. The male reproductive system and the female female reproductive system are designed for each other.
4. Therefore, God’s plan for human sexuality involves opposite sex relations.
5. The male reproductive system is not designed for another the male reproductive system. The same is true for the female reproductive systems.
6. Therefore, same sex relations are not part of God’s plan.

The problem is that this argument focuses on the external design of the body while ignoring the internal design. Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

Now why would God design some people for opposite-sex relationships in their exterior body but same-sex relationships in their interior life? I have no idea. But it doesn’t really matter. If God designed it that way, then who am I to judge?

So if we want to respect the Natural Law, then we have to accept same-sex relations because it seems to be the case that God himself designed some people that way on the inside even if not on the outside. To put it crudely, even if the exterior parts don’t fit, the interior ones sure do.

All of us, gay or straight, are called to chastity. And I recommend the following for your consideration.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Your post makes me think that if God was the designer of SSA, then he would also be the designer of mental illnesses and cancer. That isn’t the case. God didn’t do it. This is a fallen world and some people have different crosses to bear, SSA is one of them, just like me with my mental illnesses. It has taken me over a year to realize that God didn’t do this to me. I was very angry at God about it and sometimes I slip back into that thinking.
I advise you to pray a lot about homosexuality. Because that is what I did about my mental illnesses. It totally changed by view.

 

[tamedlion]

Your post makes me think that if God was the designer of SSA, then he would also be the designer of mental illnesses and cancer. That isn’t the case. God didn’t do it. This is a fallen world and some people have different crosses to bear, SSA is one of them, just like me with my mental illnesses. It has taken me over a year to realize that God didn’t do this to me. I was very angry at God about it and sometimes I slip back into that thinking.
I advise you to pray a lot about homosexuality. Because that is what I did about my mental illnesses. It totally changed by view.

 

[Usige]

Using your logic : There are some people who cant seem to stop stealing. God created people , Therefore stealing is God given trait.
Sorry , Sin is the cause of homosexual desires same as lying, adultery , murder , pick your sin.

I was thinking the same thing. Some psychotics commit murder, so since they were born with psychosis then all their actions are from God by design? I think not.

As Kendra points out we are all given crosses to bear. Just because we each have a predilection to sin does not mean it is God’s design that we give in and refuse to bear our cross. It reminds me of something Archbishop Sheen once said. It goes something like this; we are all willing to carry a cross of our own choosing, but think it unfair when given cross that is a burden.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Using your logic : There are some people who cant seem to stop stealing. God created people , Therefore stealing is God given trait.
Sorry , Sin is the cause of homosexual desires same as lying, adultery , murder , pick your sin.

Yes, we all face temptations of different sorts. Some that I have difficulty in resisting are of no concern to others. While they may be tempted by things which I’m quite easily able to ignore.

We all are placed in situations where we must decide whether to choose to obey and follow Jesus or not.

The OP’s logic is simply rationalization for choosing to give into temptation.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

It seems to me that homosexual acts are not against the Natural Law.

The argument to the contrary usually goes as follows:

1. God created the universe and everything in it not haphazardly but with purpose.
2. We can discover God’s intention by analyzing his design of the universe and everything in it.
3. The male reproductive system and the female female reproductive system are designed for each other.
4. Therefore, God’s plan for human sexuality involves opposite sex relations.
5. The male reproductive system is not designed for another the male reproductive system. The same is true for the female reproductive systems.
6. Therefore, same sex relations are not part of God’s plan.

The problem is that this argument focuses on the external design of the body while ignoring the internal design. Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

Now why would God design some people for opposite-sex relationships in their exterior body but same-sex relationships in their interior life? I have no idea. But it doesn’t really matter. If God designed it that way, then who am I to judge?

So if we want to respect the Natural Law, then we have to accept same-sex relations because it seems to be the case that God himself designed some people that way on the inside even if not on the outside. To put it crudely, even if the exterior parts don’t fit, the interior ones sure do.

Nice try, Dave…but it just won’t fly.

God designed people as opposite sexes to be complimentary. Or, as you say “Fit”.

Those who choose not to comply with God’s design violate God’s intentions, the natural law, and nature itself.

For me to accept your proposal you will have to: One, convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. Right now. a person can only CLAIM to be a homosexual…they can’t even prove it. Two, Since the purpose of opposite sexes is reproduction (God’s Plan) what is the purpose of homosexuality???

 

[Karen107]

It seems to me that homosexual acts are not against the Natural Law.

The argument to the contrary usually goes as follows:

1. God created the universe and everything in it not haphazardly but with purpose.
2. We can discover God’s intention by analyzing his design of the universe and everything in it.
3. The male reproductive system and the female female reproductive system are designed for each other.
4. Therefore, God’s plan for human sexuality involves opposite sex relations.
5. The male reproductive system is not designed for another the male reproductive system. The same is true for the female reproductive systems.
6. Therefore, same sex relations are not part of God’s plan.

The problem is that this argument focuses on the external design of the body while ignoring the internal design. Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

Now why would God design some people for opposite-sex relationships in their exterior body but same-sex relationships in their interior life? I have no idea. But it doesn’t really matter. If God designed it that way, then who am I to judge?

So if we want to respect the Natural Law, then we have to accept same-sex relations because it seems to be the case that God himself designed some people that way on the inside even if not on the outside. To put it crudely, even if the exterior parts don’t fit, the interior ones sure do.

Here’s the thing that you’ve missed.

God created Men and Woman and wanted them to be fruitful and multiply. That is in Gods nature to create new life as a result of the union of a man and women…

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

So… think about what fruitful means…When men and women are joined as one they can bear children who are the fruit of their love… Whereas a same sex union can’t be fruitful because they can’t be naturally fruitful so it goes against God’s nature as a Creator. So God is Our Creator who Creates life through us and that’s the natural way God intended life to be created to multiply the earth…

 

[mdgspencer]

This is not to tell you what to believe, but the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” says "basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law… Homosexual tendencies … are objectively disordered.” But those with these tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”(sections 2357-8). All I can do for my own part is to follow the teaching of Catholicism.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

This is not to tell you what to believe, but the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” says "basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.** They are contrary to the natural law.**… Homosexual tendencies … are objectively disordered.” But those with these tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”(sections 2357-8). All I can do for my own part is to follow the teaching of Catholicism.

" They are contrary to the natural law…"

End of discussion!

 

[ssa_fellow]

Nice try, Dave…but it just won’t fly.

God designed people as opposite sexes to be complimentary. Or, as you say “Fit”.

Those who choose not to comply with God’s design violate God’s intentions, the natural law, and nature itself.

For me to accept your proposal you will have to: One, convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. Right now. a person can only CLAIM to be a homosexual…they can’t even prove it. Two, Since the purpose of opposite sexes is reproduction (God’s Plan) what is the purpose of homosexuality???

Does the Catholic position then rest on whether or not someone was born gay?

Because, I think that is going to be proven in our lifetimes.

Personally, I’ve been trying to follow the Church’s teaching, but its been very hard. I’ve been depressed for a long time, bc I don’t know what to do with my life, bc I’m gay. Recently I’ve been having discussions, in which I cannot prove that this sin is actually harmful to people… other than spiritually.

Abortion is obviously harmful to the child who is killed, and to the mother who undergoes trauma. But, how is “conjugal love” between two men harmful? A friend asked me that question, and I couldn’t say it was harmful… except on a spiritual level, bc “its sin”.

If the Church’s teaching is right, then why does its argument seem so weak and unconvincing?

 

[meltzerboy]

Nice try, Dave…but it just won’t fly.

God designed people as opposite sexes to be complimentary. Or, as you say “Fit”.

Those who choose not to comply with God’s design violate God’s intentions, the natural law, and nature itself.

For me to accept your proposal you will have to: One, convince me that homosexuality is not a choice. Right now. a person can only CLAIM to be a homosexual…they can’t even prove it. Two, Since the purpose of opposite sexes is reproduction (God’s Plan) what is the purpose of homosexuality???

The issue concerning choice is not essential to the argument in either direction. Mental disorder is not a choice yet we would not argue that G-d designed people to be mentally ill. So whether or not homosexuality (SSA) is a choice, however the word “choice” is defined, bears little impact on the OP’s argument. The issue of natural design or complementarity, on the other hand, is a stronger one that supports your viewpoint.

 

[Rau]

…Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

Now why would God design some people for opposite-sex relationships in their exterior body but same-sex relationships in their interior life? I have no idea. But it doesn’t really matter. If God designed it that way, then who am I to judge?

So if we want to respect the Natural Law, then we have to accept same-sex relations because it seems to be the case that God himself designed some people that way on the inside even if not on the outside. To put it crudely, even if the exterior parts don’t fit, the interior ones sure do.

Reality on earth does not necessarily reflect the design of God, and nor do the acts of persons. Physical frailties and free will are everywhere on earth.

The male sexual act incorporates the delivery of sperm, bound up with the other fruits of the sexual act. This is not to say that making babies is the sole purpose of sexual acts, but it is compellingly suggestive of the natural sexual partner for a man. That some men desire another man with whom to engage sexually reflects a corruption.

 

[Rau]

Does the Catholic position then rest on whether or not someone was born gay?

Because, I think that is going to be proven in our lifetimes.

Personally, I’ve been trying to follow the Church’s teaching, but its been very hard. I’ve been depressed for a long time, bc I don’t know what to do with my life, bc I’m gay. Recently I’ve been having discussions, in which I cannot prove that this sin is actually harmful to people… other than spiritually.

Abortion is obviously harmful to the child who is killed, and to the mother who undergoes trauma. But, how is “conjugal love” between two men harmful? A friend asked me that question, and I couldn’t say it was harmful… except on a spiritual level, bc “its sin”.

If the Church’s teaching is right, then why does its argument seem so weak and unconvincing?

Do you see a logic, a purpose beyond mutual pleasure, in engaging in sexual relations with another man? Does my earlier post give you cause to ask yourself “does this [sex with another man] seem right”?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Does the Catholic position then rest on whether or not someone was born gay?

Because, I think that is going to be proven in our lifetimes.

The Church’s position on this subject is over 2000 years old. It ain’t gonna change.

Personally, I’ve been trying to follow the Church’s teaching, but its been very hard. I’ve been depressed for a long time, bc I don’t know what to do with my life, bc I’m gay. Recently I’ve been having discussions, in which I cannot prove that this sin is actually harmful to people… other than spiritually.

Abortion is obviously harmful to the child who is killed, and to the mother who undergoes trauma. But, how is “conjugal love” between two men harmful? A friend asked me that question, and I couldn’t say it was harmful… except on a spiritual level, bc “its sin”.

Currently the Centers For Disease Control (CDC) says that the rate of newly reported cases of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs) within the gay communities are at EPIDEMIC levels.

That problem is far from spiritual. I hate to break it to you this way but…you are in physical DANGER. Wise up!

If the Church’s teaching is right, then why does its argument seem so weak and unconvincing?

The Church does not make an argument. It teaches the truth.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

. Mental disorder is not a choice yet we would not argue that G-d designed people to be mentally ill.

God did not design people to be mentally ill. He did not promise that we would be immune from it. Mental illness is treatable.

So whether or not homosexuality (SSA) is a choice, however the word “choice” is defined, bears little impact on the OP’s argument. The issue of natural design or complementarity, on the other hand, is a stronger one that supports your viewpoint.

Actually the OP’s argument is about Natural Law. and we settled that from the Catechism.

 

[Catholic80]

It seems to me that homosexual acts are not against the Natural Law.

The problem is that this argument focuses on the external design of the body while ignoring the internal design. Although we don’t fully understand the causes of homosexuality at this time, it has become increasingly clear that some people are simply designed to have same-sex attraction. If so, then God was the designer.

How do arrive at this conclusion? There are adults who are sexually attracted to children, to animals, to their mothers/fathers/siblings, to dead people,… do you think God designed it to be that way?

God’s design for humanity is perfect, but humanity fell from grace, and with it, our desires became disordered. God designed all of our organs to be complete in our own bodies, with the exception of one - our sexual organs. In order for our sexual organs to function fully, we need an “other” of the opposite sex.

Cane was jealous and killed Abel. God didn’t design us for jealousy and murderous rage. And if you want to know God’s opinion on homosexuality, read the story of Lot, Sodom, and Gomorrah.

Clearly, our human desires and compulsions can be, and frequently are, disordered. When our inclinations and desires are disordered, and we give in to them, that is called sin. When we resist, it’s called resisting temptation, and we grow in grace and virtue.