Homosexual co-worker?

[EasterJoy]

Adults are sexual beings. You don’t have to “sexualize” them for them to be sexual.

(Contrast: a six-year-old is not a sexual being, and it is wrong to sexualize six-year-olds).

Oh, and talking/thinking about someone’s beauty is not objectifying them. Though it does sometimes involve encouraging sinful tendencies, and so it should sometimes be discouraged.

St. Paul did not have much patience for “sexualizing” fellow adults, either:

Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. So do not be associated with them. Eph. 5:3-7

Even the unbelievers of our time do not think the whole world has to welcome talk about personal thoughts and desires on company time. They don’t believe that customers ought to feel flattered that employees of their grocery store make comments about their good looks. Even the unbelievers recognize that a certain level of formality is the best policy in the work world. A Christian who feels the same way does not need to make the issue about their Christianity. They only need to stick up for the concept of sparing them having to listen to personal remarks, whether aimed at them or at third parties that did not solicit them.

If some gay customer comes in and flirts with this gay co-worker and the co-worker reciprocates, there is not much to be done about it. When you are in the world, expect the worldly to act worldly. Expect those in the flesh to act as if they are in the flesh. Do not give unsolicited pearls when it is likely they will be tramped underfoot. If the interaction is something the customer and co-worker both agree with, then if the employer has not expressly forbidden such behavior, bite your tongue.

If, OTOH, you are a co-worker who simply wants worldly workplace proprieties to be observed, not for your own comfort only but for the comfort of customers and therefore for the good of the enterprise as a whole, then you can say so. Yes, maybe you will be shot down. Does that leave you worse off? Not if you raise the question with the recognition that you are a co-worker and not a supervisor yourself. If you are not abrasive about how you express your request, you are not likely to suffer from having made it. Oh, sure, you may be teased about being “Aunt Bea” from Mayberry, but is that so bad? Avoid acting like Sister Bertha Better-Than-You, just remind the person that there is a usual boundary that has been crossed. You can live with a bad result, and you may be surprised that you actually get a good one. The worldly are not totally craven, and many will be very willing to avoid behavior that offends others. You will not know unless you ask. Ask with respect, and see what happens.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m sure there are plenty of people who use the term “hot” without a second thought, and they don’t intentionally mean it to be objectifying. They probably think saying “S/He is so hot” is pretty much the same as saying “S/He is really beautiful/handsome/good-looking.”

But for me, that phrase has always been a pet peeve of mine, so I can understand why it would rub the OP the wrong way. It just really comes across as objectifying to me.

That said, if this was the worst thing the co-worker was saying, I’d probably just blow it off.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m sure there are plenty of people who use the term “hot” without a second thought, and they don’t intentionally mean it to be objectifying. They probably think saying “S/He is so hot” is pretty much the same as saying “S/He is really beautiful/handsome/good-looking.”

But for me, that phrase has always been a pet peeve of mine, so I can understand why it would rub the OP the wrong way. It just really comes across as objectifying to me.

That said, if this was the worst thing the co-worker was saying, I’d probably just blow it off.

Here is the thing: The OP does not want to hear a gay man tell her what guys turn him on. If she could, she’d turn him away from immoral desires. As it is, her only real option is to ask not to hear about impure thoughts in general, not just the impure thoughts of homosexual co-workers.

The secular world seems to think it is bigoted to be OK with hearing other heterosexuals make these kinds of pronouncements without welcoming news of what men turn on another guy. Well, human nature being what it is, we are usually a bit more permissive of the sins we commit ourselves than the sins that are someone else’s temptation.

If you are going to object to a homosexual man saying that some other guy is “hot,” you’d do best to make it your policy that noting who is or is not “hot” generally is something you’d rather not hear at work. That is about the most ground you can claim, and in some workplaces, even that much of a boundary will not be respected. Still, I think that tactic is about her only hope, and not a bad boundary to impose on yourself generally. (You cannot ask others to restrict themselves more than you restrict yourself, after all.)

BTW: Christians who believe their own impure thoughts about others are “only natural” really ought to re-examine that.

 

[shelby_sun]

Here is the thing: The OP does not want to hear a gay man tell her what guys turn him on. If she could, she’d turn him away from immoral desires. As it is, her only real option is to ask not to hear about impure thoughts in general, not just the impure thoughts of homosexual co-workers.

The secular world seems to think it is bigoted to be OK with hearing other heterosexuals make these kinds of pronouncements without welcoming news of what men turn on another guy. Well, human nature being what it is, we are usually a bit more permissive of the sins we commit ourselves than the sins that are someone else’s temptation.

If you are going to object to a homosexual man saying that some other guy is “hot,” you’d do best to make it your policy that noting who is or is not “hot” generally is something you’d rather not hear at work. That is about the most ground you can claim, and in some workplaces, even that much of a boundary will not be respected. Still, I think that tactic is about her only hope, and not a bad boundary to impose on yourself generally. (You cannot ask others to restrict themselves more than you restrict yourself, after all.)

BTW: Christians who believe their own impure thoughts about others are “only natural” really ought to re-examine that.

I think if one has to work they cannot be so bothered but such a simple remark or they will be upset most of their life. They also might chose to work in a religious affiliated place where those things might be not be said, such as a religious book store. Most bosses will say that the co-worker has a right to his opinion.

If someone is never to have impure thoughts like thinking someone is “hot” how in the world are people suppose to start dating. Most of the it is when you find someone attractive that leads to dating. He never expressed anything more.

 

[shelby_sun]

St. Paul did not have much patience for “sexualizing” fellow adults, either:

Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. So do not be associated with them. Eph. 5:3-7

Even the unbelievers of our time do not think the whole world has to welcome talk about personal thoughts and desires on company time. They don’t believe that customers ought to feel flattered that employees of their grocery store make comments about their good looks. Even the unbelievers recognize that a certain level of formality is the best policy in the work world. A Christian who feels the same way does not need to make the issue about their Christianity. They only need to stick up for the concept of sparing them having to listen to personal remarks, whether aimed at them or at third parties that did not solicit them.

If some gay customer comes in and flirts with this gay co-worker and the co-worker reciprocates, there is not much to be done about it. When you are in the world, expect the worldly to act worldly. Expect those in the flesh to act as if they are in the flesh. Do not give unsolicited pearls when it is likely they will be tramped underfoot. If the interaction is something the customer and co-worker both agree with, then if the employer has not expressly forbidden such behavior, bite your tongue.

If, OTOH, you are a co-worker who simply wants worldly workplace proprieties to be observed, not for your own comfort only but for the comfort of customers and therefore for the good of the enterprise as a whole, then you can say so. Yes, maybe you will be shot down. Does that leave you worse off? Not if you raise the question with the recognition that you are a co-worker and not a supervisor yourself. If you are not abrasive about how you express your request, you are not likely to suffer from having made it. Oh, sure, you may be teased about being “Aunt Bea” from Mayberry, but is that so bad? Avoid acting like Sister Bertha Better-Than-You, just remind the person that there is a usual boundary that has been crossed. You can live with a bad result, and you may be surprised that you actually get a good one. The worldly are not totally craven, and many will be very willing to avoid behavior that offends others. You will not know unless you ask. Ask with respect, and see what happens.

Do you have any idea how many people would be thrilled if anyone told them they were pretty or looked pretty, even if was a cashier. I am a receptionist and I always try to find something nice to say to someone that walks in. If I don’t know them then it is usually something about there appearance and they all seem very happy to have something nice said to them. There certainly are not offended.

 

[EasterJoy]

Do you have any idea how many people would be thrilled if anyone told them they were pretty or looked pretty, even if was a cashier. I am a receptionist and I always try to find something nice to say to someone that walks in. If I don’t know them then it is usually something about there appearance and they all seem very happy to have something nice said to them. There certainly are not offended.

Read the thread. The guy is making comments about customers after the customers walk away. That does not tend to be the kind of personal comment that people are “thrilled” to get from total strangers. If it were, he’d be complimenting them to their faces. If it were respectful, his comments wouldn’t make the OP cringe as they do. They’d only be what any man might say about another guy who really knows how to present himself in public.

Are you trying to tell me that your employer like you to say, “Wow, sir, you are hot, do you know that?” when an attractive man walks up to your reception desk? I’m not thinking your organization would be too thrilled if you did. Do you comment on unusual hair colors, as if the customer has never had anyone tell her that her hair is an unusual color? I’m doubting it.

The OP is not complaining that her co-worker says that other men look nice in a respectful way. She is complaining that he’s being sexual and inappropriate about it. Even the secular world puts boundaries on that. That is all I am saying. I am surprised how many people object to this!

 

[shelby_sun]

Read the thread. The guy is making comments about customers after the customers walk away. That does not tend to be the kind of personal comment that people are “thrilled” to get from total strangers. If it were, he’d be complimenting them to their faces. If it were respectful, his comments wouldn’t make the OP cringe as they do. They’d only be what any man might say about another guy who really knows how to present himself in public.

Are you trying to tell me that your employer like you to say, “Wow, sir, you are hot, do you know that?” when an attractive man walks up to your reception desk? I’m not thinking your organization would be too thrilled if you did. Do you comment on unusual hair colors, as if the customer has never had anyone tell her that her hair is an unusual color? I’m doubting it.

The OP is not complaining that her co-worker says that other men look nice in a respectful way. She is complaining that he’s being sexual and inappropriate about it. Even the secular world puts boundaries on that. That is all I am saying. I am surprised how many people object to this!

I work at a Catholic high school and yes sometimes comments are made about how beautiful a mother is when they walk by. It is not sexual or inappropriate, it is an observation and opinion, and I think some are just really blowing this out of proportion, just my opinion. So we disagree.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

This is a many-part response, EasterJoy, so hold on for the ride!

St. Paul did not have much patience for “sexualizing” fellow adults, either:

Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. So do not be associated with them. Eph. 5:3-7

Even the unbelievers of our time do not think the whole world has to welcome talk about personal thoughts and desires on company time. They don’t believe that customers ought to feel flattered that employees of their grocery store make comments about their good looks. Even the unbelievers recognize that a certain level of formality is the best policy in the work world. A Christian who feels the same way does not need to make the issue about their Christianity. They only need to stick up for the concept of sparing them having to listen to personal remarks, whether aimed at them or at third parties that did not solicit them.

My earlier comments had nothing to do with the workplace, as such, but only to do with the notion of finding people “hot”. I can see why the co-worker referred to by the OP shouldn’t *talk *about it, but I don’t see why there is any problem with him just genuinely finding other men hot (or sexually attractive).

With respect to the passage from Ephesians, I don’t think it is obscene or silly to call someone hot. My wife calls other men hot, within contexts that make it clear she’s not at all interested in them – it actually leads to much hilarity, because she’s not the only person in the marriage who appreciates male beauty.

But here is where I went a bit overboard… In response to another poster, I said:

Some guys are hot, and some girls are hot. I am not using coarse language when I say that. I could use coarse language to express a similar point, but I will not do so.

For me, as a man, to say that, is intentionally provocative. And hey, I like being provocative. But I also think it was wrong for me to say that. I certainly am not qualified to teach a class on perfect chastity, so I ought not go around confidently stating that what someone else says is courting temptation is perfectly OK for me.

That said, I have tried believing that finding men hot is deeply wrong – and that attempt tends to lead to sin.

You said:

BTW: Christians who believe their own impure thoughts about others are “only natural” really ought to re-examine that.

I agree. But I guess the question is the line between impure thoughts and mere observation of another person’s good qualities. I do not know where this line is. I think we ought to be reasonably suspicious of ourselves in such cases, and reasonably generous in interpreting the actions of others.

 

[EasterJoy]

I work at a Catholic high school and yes sometimes comments are made about how beautiful a mother is when they walk by. It is not sexual or inappropriate, it is an observation and opinion, and I think some are just really blowing this out of proportion, just my opinion. So we disagree.

The OP did not object to “beautiful” or “handsome” or any other compliment that could safely be made to the face of a total stranger. The objection was to “hot,” or any other compliment that could not be decently aimed at child (or a student, for that matter). She is objecting to her co-worker making overtly sexual comments about customers that have just walked out of the store.

If the office staff at your Catholic high school are in the habit of telling parents that they look “hot,” something is wrong. Even the staff at public high schools don’t do that!

Honestly, I’ve worked with some of the most secular people in the world, and if one of their colleagues is bothered by sexual talk, they don’t do it around them. This is particularly true if the colleague is a nice person to work around otherwise. There are a lot of decent people out there who do respect those who have a sense of propriety about sexual talk, even if they don’t share that sense of propriety themselves. Why would she just assume that her co-worker wants to make her uncomfortable, when the fact is that he probably doesn’t realize his talk is unwelcome at all?

If she and the rest of the staff engage in this kind of talk about the people they find “hot” and only exclude him, of course he might feel put out about it. He doesn’t see anything wrong with his behavior, and secular society agrees that he ought to be treated the same as everyone else. If she is a nice person who simply has a sense of formality concerning how she acts or talks at work, though, then he will probably take her request very differently. He may tease her a bit for being so formal, but he may try to watch it around her, all the same. It isn’t as if we can assume he cares nothing about her feelings.

 

[robwar]

I’m sure there are plenty of people who use the term “hot” without a second thought, and they don’t intentionally mean it to be objectifying. They probably think saying “S/He is so hot” is pretty much the same as saying “S/He is really beautiful/handsome/good-looking.”

But for me, that phrase has always been a pet peeve of mine, so I can understand why it would rub the OP the wrong way. It just really comes across as objectifying to me.

That said, if this was the worst thing the co-worker was saying, I’d probably just blow it off.

That is what should be done here and move on.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

That is what should be done here and move on.

Speaking as a millennial working in an environment that’s full of us, I would say any other environment that’s run by people who object simply the word ‘hot’ is not something we’ll frequent. We tend to be a little bit more results-driven then that. Good luck finding people my age who’ll fit into the mold of your classic 50s office but you’re not the norm anymore.

 

[EasterJoy]

Speaking as a millennial working in an environment that’s full of us, I would say any other environment that’s run by people who object simply the word ‘hot’ is not something we’ll frequent. We tend to be a little bit more results-driven then that. Good luck finding people my age who’ll fit into the mold of your classic 50s office but you’re not the norm anymore.

You’re telling me that if a coworker tells you that your pet topic of conversation is not one they care to hear about, you’d normally just tell them to go fly a kite and prattle on about it, anyway? You cannot tell someone your age that you don’t care to hear about their sexual appetites at work, because they have to talk about sex that incessantly, even co-workers who are trapped within earshot, and anyone who doesn’t like it can just lump it?

No. Some of them, sure, but not the whole generation. I don’t believe it. I’d believe that some people who ask another person your age to please avoid talking about who is or is not a sexual turn-on are going to be ignored or even vilified, but I cannot believe that it is pointless to even ask, even at work. Your generation cannot possibly be that self-centered, self-absorbed, and obsessed with sex, or have that little control of what flies out of your mouth. This is not something I’ve noticed about people your age, let’s just say that. They do seem very capable of and willing to adjust their behavior for the comfort of their friends and coworkers. Don’t tell me I’ve just been lucky concerning which of you I talk with.

I understand that the homosexual coworker cannot be treated differently than anyone else with regards to whether or not sex is an acceptable topic. I do not get that professionals are no longer allowed to even *ask *that others keep quiet about their sexual appetites while they are on the clock. That boggles my mind…can people possibly be that addicted to talking about sex?

 

[Miss_Felicity]

If all he has done is said a guys is hot, blow it off, life is too short to get upset about something like that, just shrug and move on. If he starts to give details about his sexual behavior, just simply say I don’t talk about these things with my friends, so I don’t want to talk about them at work. I am just not one that is comfortable with all that.

Very true. In my environment, once in a while some guy will mention a sexual practice other than coitus and use a slang term for it, if I were to say, “Sorry, but such a term/practice doesn’t befit the inalienable dignity of human beings, created in the likeness and image of the Lord Most High”, I would commit a social/workplace suicide. Becoming a martyr has never been on my top ten things list of things to accomplish before my time down here is up.

NO, NO, NO. Do not report this. Nothing the OP said sounded like harassment. This is his job and you are getting way to carried away. It didn’t sound like he had a clue this upset the OP, which in my opinion needs to lighten up a little.

First speak to the co worker directly and say how you feel, but don’t get him in trouble for something he saw as just a comment. If you find things like this upset be prepared to be upset a lot in life.

Honestly, you will need to learn to suck it up a bit, honey. I don’t work closely with anybody who is gay at my current job but some of the stuff that is said, I disagree with or don’t want to be a part of. I walk away, there is always something else that needs done where I can legitimately excuse myself. Look at it this way this is a Summer job which means you are young, and still learning about the work world.

A part of the work world is being able to have solid professional relationships, and yes ignore some things that you don’t agree with. In this highly networked, word of mouth, recommendation centric work place that we have right now I think its too early in your career to die on that hill. For the record I would say and have said the same thing to LGBT co workers and friends. I have a former friend who I met as a co worker and he was easily offended and had often escalated things to HR at several jobs he was at. It almost never ended well and a few times, he left otherwise good jobs because the climate had gotten SO tense, and unfriendly. People ONLY dealt with him if and when they had to, he was excluded from all but the most official work events. You are too young to die on that hill, trust me. Head some of the quoted responses.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

In my experience, it’s more common for coworkers to say that a person is “cute” rather than “hot”. They mean roughly the same thing, in context, but I’m guessing “cute” would be less offensive? I’m just trying to navigate the acceptable meanings of words here.

 

[yellowbird]

In my experience, it’s more common for coworkers to say that a person is “cute” rather than “hot”. They mean roughly the same thing, in context, but I’m guessing “cute” would be less offensive? I’m just trying to navigate the acceptable meanings of words here.

Cute is so last century. Hot, or more specifically HAWT is 2014. #momof3teenagers

Teenagers who’d :doh2: at my hashtag.

It’s simply a complement… in the 1940s maybe they said someone looked handsome, or beautiful? Today everyone < 30 is hot. Or at least they hope to be…

If that, and a comment about going to the movies with his boyfriend is all the gay worker is saying, it sound like typical coworker banter or small talk.

The sexual harassment claim made me literally lol.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You’re telling me that if a coworker tells you that your pet topic of conversation is not one they care to hear about, you’d normally just tell them to go fly a kite and prattle on about it, anyway?

More like they’re the ones more eager to talk about it than I do. I just tend to speak through my eyes.

No. Some of them, sure, but not the whole generation. I don’t believe it.

Best believe it… or you can just continue living in that little era you seem so comfortable in.

Your generation cannot possibly be that self-centered, self-absorbed, and obsessed with sex, or have that little control of what flies out of your mouth. This is not something I’ve noticed about people your age, let’s just say that. They do seem very capable of and willing to adjust their behavior for the comfort of their friends and coworkers. Don’t tell me I’ve just been lucky concerning which of you I talk with.

Lucky? I don’t really care about your luck. I’m just here to tell you that your I Love Lucy style environment doesn’t match the one I work in.

I do not get that professionals are no longer allowed to even *ask *that others keep quiet about their sexual appetites while they are on the clock. That boggles my mind…can people possibly be that addicted to talking about sex?

Addicted? I wouldn’t say that. We’re just not as tight-lipped that we consider words like ‘hot’ as sexually offensive.

P.S.

It’s simply a complement… in the 1940s maybe they said someone looked handsome, or beautiful? Today everyone < 30 is hot. Or at least they hope to be…

Hope to be? Hmm, well sometimes we twenty-somethings just hope we’ll always stay this way.

 

[EasterJoy]

Cute is so last century. Hot, or more specifically HAWT is 2014. #momof3teenagers

Teenagers who’d :doh2: at my hashtag.

It’s simply a complement… in the 1940s maybe they said someone looked handsome, or beautiful? Today everyone < 30 is hot. Or at least they hope to be…

If that, and a comment about going to the movies with his boyfriend is all the gay worker is saying, it sound like typical coworker banter or small talk.

The sexual harassment claim made me literally lol.

You may be right. When there is a dress code that says that skirts must reach the knee, I do have to admit that the “knee” is about 6-8 inches higher on the leg than it was when I was in high school.

My main point is that there really isn’t any way to get a gay co-worker to stop making leering comments about other men except when the comments rise to a level that they are inappropriate in general. Either you can tell him you don’t like it and he’ll stop because he’s a decent sort of fellow who doesn’t mind avoiding some subject of conversation that you do not enjoy as much as he does or, if his comments really get out of hand, you complain that the environment is unprofessional and have someone else stop it for you.

What constitutes “too much”? That does depend on your locale. A middle school will be stricter than the prep rooms of a restaurant.

If you do not work for an establishment that is religious, however, you aren’t going to be able to place a stricter standard on what you’ll tolerate regarding homosexuals than you would for heterosexuals, or someone is going to take offense at* you*.

 

[shelby_sun]

OK So is it that a gay guy comment on another guy or that he used the word “hot”?

 

[EasterJoy]

OK So is it that a gay guy comment on another guy or that he used the word “hot”?

She is uncomfortable that he has chosen to act on his homosexual orientation. That can’t be helped.

She finds it very awkward when he talks about other men in a sexual manner. Depending on how he does so, it is possible that can be helped. The only way I can see that it can be helped, however, is if she lets it be known that she is not comfortable with such talk in general. As a Christian, she is uncomfortable with it because it is impure. In the contemporary workplace, however, she has some right to have unwelcome sexual talk kept within certain limits. She cannot insist that there be none at all, but she doesn’t have to put up with everything that doesn’t happen to be pointed at her directly.

In the middle ground, many people will voluntarily craft how they speak in order to be agreeable to those to whom they want to seem agreeable company: IOW, people that they have some reason to want to please. That is her best likelihood of success. She’ll not do it by offending him with no good end likely to come of it.

 

[Cricket2]

She is uncomfortable that he has chosen to act on his homosexual orientation. That can’t be helped.

She finds it very awkward when he talks about other men in a sexual manner. Depending on how he does so, it is possible that can be helped. The only way I can see that it can be helped, however, is if she lets it be known that she is not comfortable with such talk in general. As a Christian, she is uncomfortable with it because it is impure. In the contemporary workplace, however, she has some right to have unwelcome sexual talk kept within certain limits. She cannot insist that there be none at all, but she doesn’t have to put up with everything that doesn’t happen to be pointed at her directly.

In the middle ground, many people will voluntarily craft how they speak in order to be agreeable to those to whom they want to seem agreeable company: IOW, people that they have some reason to want to please. That is her best likelihood of success. She’ll not do it by offending him with no good end likely to come of it.

“She” can insist that there be none at all. (Talk about or from a person related to his/her sexual preferences, orientation, habits etc.)

What a lot of people fail to realize is that any conversation of this nature, even between two people who are “OK” with the topic, can be viewed as a form of sexual harassment if even one other person in the work area does not want to hear it. Sexual harassment is not confined to openly obvious remarks, suggestions, attempts to touch etc. All that has to be present the wish of own person to not see or hear anything of that nature.

In addition, if there are any others present in the office who are aware of this and they don’t report it they can be found guilty of sexual harassment. I learned this as a supervisor during company training on this issue as well as issues that can be viewed as “Creating a hostile work environment.”

Folks need to be very careful about what they talk about at work. If this person does not want to be subject to this type of discussion, be it about heterosexual or homosexual relationships, or simply jokes about sex, or conduct related to it, then it must be stopped. Any company that does not make this abundantly clear to staff is in for a major law suit sometime down the road. And employees need to take heed, as it is a fast way to be accused of something they might not really be guilty of and a fast way to lose a job.