Homosexual Marriage Legal = Prostitution Legal?

[Nate13]

The fundamental basis for making homosexual marriage legal is the argument that the government has no business in what two consenting adults do in bed. Prostitution would seem to also fit that same argument. If the legality of homosexual marriage is not a moral concern wouldn’t that also mean prostitution is not a moral concern where you have two consenting adults involved? In my opinion if homosexual marriage becomes legal nationwide and its denied that homosexual marriage is a moral issue, prostitution would be a sure bet to follow closely in its wake in legality. Thoughts?

 

[Leegal]

The fundamental basis for making homosexual marriage legal is the argument that the government has no business in what two consenting adults do in bed. Prostitution would seem to also fit that same argument. If the legality of homosexual marriage is not a moral concern wouldn’t that also mean prostitution is not a moral concern where you have two consenting adults involved? In my opinion if homosexual marriage becomes legal nationwide and its denied that homosexual marriage is a moral issue, prostitution would be a sure bet to follow closely in its wake in legality. Thoughts?

Actually, the primary argument in favor of gay marriage by secularists who support gay marrige is not that government should stay out of the bedroom (that argument is secondary), but that gays should not be treated in a discriminatory fashion and not be denied the benefits that a male/female couple can have through the legal marriage. They see it as a discriminatory issue.

They claim it violates the 5th Amend. but that’s wrong. The claim is really that it violates the 14th Amend. by which the states are bound by the 5th. The 5th covers the federal government – the 14th covers the states – equal protection under the law.

That, of course, would not hold true on the legalization of prostitution because to solicit sex for money is a state crime by both the man who pays and the woman who accepts money, and both are subject to arrest.

Legalization of prostitution will not follow, IMO. It does not follow that one will bring on the other.

 

[Alder]

“Prostitution” is legal in my country (East coast) but not homosexual marriage…

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Legalization of prostitution will not follow, IMO. It does not follow that one will bring on the other.

Whether that’s in the wake of gay marriage or not… ehh. It’s not like we have to scientifically prove causation. If people have no morals they can vote anything into law they want to. Vote in dog fighting to satisfy their bloodlust if they wanted to.

 

[Nate13]

Actually, the primary argument in favor of gay marriage by secularists who support gay marrige is not that government should stay out of the bedroom (that argument is secondary), but that gays should not be treated in a discriminatory fashion and not be denied the benefits that a male/female couple can have through the legal marriage. They see it as a discriminatory issue.

They claim it violates the 5th Amend. but that’s wrong. The claim is really that it violates the 14th Amend. by which the states are bound by the 5th. The 5th covers the federal government – the 14th covers the states – equal protection under the law.

That, of course, would not hold true on the legalization of prostitution because to solicit sex for money is a state crime by both the man who pays and the woman who accepts money, and both are subject to arrest.

Legalization of prostitution will not follow, IMO. It does not follow that one will bring on the other.

I think my point still stands in that if homosexual marriage is denied as a moral issue, prostitution will be denied as a moral issue. The only strong basis on which prostitution is made illegal is a moral one. I’m sure some kind of discriminatory or sexist spin could be put on this issue and then it would be near equal in a legal sense to homosexual marriage. Legalities really don’t care about the emotions involved whether a gay couple is having relations in the name of love and a prostitute is doing it for money, so that potential difference really isn’t at play here in a legal sense I would assume.

 

[Alder]

I think my point still stands in that if homosexual marriage is denied as a moral issue, prostitution will be denied as a moral issue. The only strong basis on which prostitution is made illegal is a moral one. I’m sure some kind of discriminatory or sexist spin could be put on this issue and then it would be near equal in a legal sense to homosexual marriage. Legalities really don’t care about the emotions involved and whether a gay couple is having relations because of love and a prostitute is doing it for money so that potential difference really isn’t at play here in a legal sense I would assume.

Could also be a tax issue with prostitution?

 

[BListon]

You know… this is KINDA off topic, but i’ve always wondered why prostitution is illegal, but being an “adult film star” is perfectly legal… the only difference is one is being filmed and the other isn’t:shrug:

 

[SteveGC]

The fundamental basis for making homosexual marriage legal is the argument that the government has no business in what two consenting adults do in bed. Prostitution would seem to also fit that same argument. If the legality of homosexual marriage is not a moral concern wouldn’t that also mean prostitution is not a moral concern where you have two consenting adults involved? In my opinion if homosexual marriage becomes legal nationwide and its denied that homosexual marriage is a moral issue, prostitution would be a sure bet to follow closely in its wake in legality. Thoughts?

Hmm. Not sure your premise is entirely accurate. I think that part of the fundamental basis is as you say, but the primary argument is the normalcy of SSA and that SS couples who love one another should be afforded the same public recognition of that loving commitment to one another (and receive the benefits that come along with it) that OS couples receive.

The battle for homosexual marriage is win-able for its proponents not just because of the “consenting adult” component, but because of the love/commitment component, as well as a “rights to express, and be recognized for, that love/commitment”. These are compelling arguments for those lawmakers who sympathize with the emotional aspect of love and marriage, and all but ignore the traditional aspect of it.

Those components do not exist in prostitution. Heck, the “consenting adults” component would be tough enough to argue. But there certainly would be nothing emotional to appeal to. It is a business, not a relationship of love and commitment.

 

[Thaelros]

You know… this is KINDA off topic, but i’ve always wondered why prostitution is illegal, but being an “adult film star” is perfectly legal… the only difference is one is being filmed and the other isn’t:shrug:

The United States of America = the capital of oxymorons.

 

[Dale_M]

I think my point still stands in that if homosexual marriage is denied as a moral issue, prostitution will be denied as a moral issue.

Although both topics may be moral issues, that doesn’t mean they are connected. Leegal is correct that the basis for the claim of a right to same-sex marriage is one of equal treatment under the law. In the US, that falls under the 14th Amendment. If heterosexuals are allowed to marry, then homosexuals are entitled to the same privilege.

The matter of what two consenting adults may legally do in the bedroom has nothing to do with marriage. People are free to have sex without being married. I can’t think of any country which makes fornication a crime.

 

[Nate13]

Hmm. Not sure your premise is entirely accurate. I think that part of the fundamental basis is as you say, but the primary argument is the normalcy of SSA and that SS couples who love one another should be afforded the same public recognition of that loving commitment to one another (and receive the benefits that come along with it) that OS couples receive.

The battle for homosexual marriage is win-able for its proponents not just because of the “consenting adult” component, but because of the love/commitment component, as well as a “rights to express, and be recognized for, that love/commitment”. These are compelling arguments for those lawmakers who sympathize with the emotional aspect of love and marriage, and all but ignore the traditional aspect of it. If a couples years in age can make the difference between legal and illegal, I would have to think completely different body parts could as well.

Those components do not exist in prostitution. Heck, the “consenting adults” component would be tough enough to argue. But there certainly would be nothing emotional to appeal to. It is a business, not a relationship of love and commitment.

You are correct in that there would not be anywhere near the empathy for prostitutes that there is for homosexual couples. Courts and laws are not based on feelings though. Statutory rape laws really could care less about whether the 16 year old girl was in love with the 21 year old. The recognition of marriage by our government is not based on feelings either.

I still think there is a strong point here. If legalizing homosexual marriage is not a moral issue, does that not mean legalizing prostitution is not a moral issue? I’m speaking mainly to Catholics here who support legalizing homosexual marriage. If they can ignore their morals in that decision, I would have to assume they would have to do the same when it comes to prostitution. I would fully expect many people to come out and make that same argument if homosexual marriage gained wide acceptance. It seems the obvious next step in the decline of society.

 

[Nate13]

Although both topics may be moral issues, that doesn’t mean they are connected. Leegal is correct that the basis for the claim of a right to same-sex marriage is one of equal treatment under the law. In the US, that falls under the 14th Amendment. If heterosexuals are allowed to marry, then homosexuals are entitled to the same privilege.

I was more speaking to Catholics who ignore the moral arguments and support gay marriage. I assume they will do the same with prostitution, no? I don’t see any reason to oppose prostitution being legal outside moral arguments. You could actual point to many benefits of doing so such as cleaning up the practice and preventing the spread of disease.

Using the whole discrimination argument relies on proving that two things that are the same are being treated differently. I can see a lot of things to point out that are different between heterosexual and homosexual relationships and that they are not the same…

The matter of what two consenting adults may legally do in the bedroom has nothing to do with marriage. People are free to have sex without being married. I can’t think of any country which makes fornication a crime.

I’m glad we have got that out there. So homosexual marriage lives or dies on the basis of whether its discrimination. It has nothing to do with the fact that you have two consenting adults. I don’t know about you, but I hear that argument a lot from homosexual marriage supporters.

 

[BListon]

The United States of America = the capital of oxymorons.

Agreed.

 

[Dale_M]

Using the whole discrimination argument relies on proving that two things that are the same are being treated differently. I can see a lot of things to point out that are different between heterosexual and homosexual relationships and that they are not the same.

I guess that is the central issue in the same-sex marriage debate. Are homosexual couples, and homosexual couples raising children, any different from heterosexual couples and heterosexual couples raising children?

 

[BListon]

The United States of America = the capital of oxymorons.

Agreed.

 

[Nate13]

Okay. I guess that is the central issue in the same-sex marriage debate. Are homosexual couples, and homosexual couples raising children, any different from heterosexual couples and heterosexual couples raising children?

So wait you accept that the legalization of gay marriage debate is not a moral debate at all, and therefore legalizing prostitution is not a moral debate at all? If so on what basis would you oppose legalized prostitution? I believe legalizing gay marriage is a moral issue and thus I’m against it. Discrimination does not even enter the discussion in my opinion. My opposition to gay marriage morally is based in natural law, which is the fundamental law all other laws are subordinate to. Our country is also based in natural law.

 

[Leegal]

ILegalities really don’t care about the emotions involved whether a gay couple is having relations in the name of love and a prostitute is doing it for money, so that potential difference really isn’t at play here in a legal sense I would assume.

The law is supposed to blind.

While we may agree on the passage of gay marriage acts, they are based upon an intepretation of law. We may even disagree on that interpretation (does the equal protection clause read "gay marriage?). The legislators seem to agree that it does.

The idea that one follows the other is called the slippery slope fallacy – that one event will automatically lead to another and another. It has to assume egregious exceptions will follow.

Not all slippery slope arguments are false but for that to happen there would have to be a series of connections between gay marriage and the legalization of prostitution. I can’t find one – prostitution does not have an equal protection claim since both men and women are now charged for engaging in the acts. In fact, it’s by equal protection that we must arrest and charge both parties.

I do note that one state has legalized but regulated brothels, in some counties, long before the topic of gay marriage surfaced.

 

[Dale_M]

So wait you accept that the legalization of gay marriage debate is not a moral debate at all

I didn’t say that. In fact, I think it is a very much a moral debate. And it revolves around the difference between homosexual couples (with or without children) and heterosexual couples (with or without children.)

, and therefore legalizing prostitution is not a moral debate at all? If so on what basis would you oppose legalized prostitution?

Honestly, I don’t see any connection at all between the marriage debate and the prostitution issue.

 

[Nate13]

The law is supposed to blind.

While we may agree on the passage of gay marriage acts, they are based upon an intepretation of law. We may even disagree on that interpretation (does the equal protection clause read "gay marriage?). The legislators seem to agree that it does.

The idea that one follows the other is called the slippery slope fallacy – that one event will automatically lead to another and another. It has to assume egregious exceptions will follow.

Not all slippery slope arguments are false but for that to happen there would have to be a series of connections between gay marriage and the legalization of prostitution. I can’t find one – prostitution does not have an equal protection claim since both men and women are now charged for engaging in the acts. In fact, it’s by equal protection that we must arrest and charge both parties.

I do note that one state has legalized but regulated brothels, in some counties, long before the topic of gay marriage surfaced.

You are correct, I’m not saying the law is bound to accept prostitution if it accepts gay marriage. The problem I have with the whole debate is that everyone keeps denying that legalizing gay marriage is a moral concern. If so they must therefore deny that legalizing prostitution is a moral concern. I’m curious to hear on what basis people oppose legalizing prostitution if they cannot use moral arguments.

 

[Nate13]

I didn’t say that. In fact, I think it is a very much a moral debate. And it revolves around the difference between homosexual couples (with or without children) and heterosexual couples (with or without children.)

So you would agree that it is fine to oppose legalizing gay marriage based on moral grounds? Notice I’m talking about the legality of these issues being a moral concern. A lot of people seem to agree homosexual acts are immoral, but deny that the legality of homosexual marriage is a moral concern.

Honestly, I don’t see any connection at all between the marriage debate and the prostitution issue.

If you disagree with my statement above then I would assume you would also disagree with opposing legalizing prostitution on moral grounds. If so I would then ask on what basis you oppose legalizing prostitution if not on moral grounds?