Homosexual marriage

[cor5755]

Same sex marriage just became legal in my state today. I’ve been reading newspaper forums on the subject and am amazed at how angry supporters of gay marriage are. There is an amazing hatred for ANY Christian value, belief or point of view. How can one follow Christ’s command to love thy neighbor when we are facing such hatred? I am having a very hard time dealing with this. I personally feel that the gay right activists, along with abortion supporters, stem cell advocates, etc., blame us Christians for oppressing them and going to war against them and their beliefs, but I see that we are the ones being oppressed. They took our right to pray in school, they fight against any religious public display, they even want to remove the word God from our money. Does anyone have any ideas to help keep from getting angry at what I see is our nation experiencing the total falling away from morality and living a God-less life?

 

[apromisemade]

Honest to goodness I was starting to believe the anti-gay-rights activists and all their pitiful attempts to argue “freedom of religion” and “we’re the victims,” nonesense. Thank heavens I saw the movie “Milk,” it shook me back to my senses.

Three words.

Get…

Over…

Yourself…

In two dozen states right here in the U.S it is still legal to fire somebody from their job soley on the basis of their sexual orientation. In dozens of countries worldwide it is perfectly legal to execute somebody soley basis of their sexual orientation. That nut-job Steven King in the Senate still opposes gay-hate crime legeslation because it would discourage gay people from “keeping things private.” Disgusting. Gay people in America are suffering far worse for the way they were created and born than you ever could for what religion you chosen to follow.

I dare you to come back in a year and cite one significant way your life has been altered because of gay marriage being legalized. And being disagreed with in a newspaper doesn’t count.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

We must love all our brothers and sisters who are all sinners, including myself. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Truth is being chipped away at right before our eyes bit by bit. Anything that chips at Truth is a Lie. Living in Lies means not living in Truth.

We wonder why things seem so wrong today, it is the cumulative effect of a society living in Lies.

 

[PatThompson]

cor5755 if you truly want to keep from getting angry about this issue, befriend someone who is gay (I’m asuming you’re a woman for some reason, if not, switch ‘her’ with ‘him’ below). Share in her nervousness of going to meet her ‘friends’ parents for the first time, or listen to her worry about her ‘friend’ losing her job. Don’t judge her on how she is different than the way you were taught, but instead understand her as a basic human being. Granted, this isn’t easy, but how else can you understand this situation?

On a more pragmatic level, why do you see this as a religious issue? No one is asking your church to do anything against its will. You choose to live in a democratic country, and democracy is doing its job.

In Maine:

The amended version distinguishes between civil and religious marriage. It allows each religion to decide whether to acknowledge same-sex marriage, but extends the option of civil marriage to any two individuals.

In New York:

“There is clearly a problem in that those individuals who are gay or lesbian who would live in a civil union are still not entitled to somewhere between 1,250 and 1,300 civil protections” available to married couples

In an appropriate attempt to separate church and state, the laws are NOT taking away anyone’s religious freedoms; they are trying to stop discriminating against any particular group.

 

[Dale_M]

Same sex marriage just became legal in my state today. I’ve been reading newspaper forums on the subject and am amazed at how angry supporters of gay marriage are. There is an amazing hatred for ANY Christian value, belief or point of view.

Many gays and lesbians were emotionally abused while growing up, in the name of Christianity. So while I am discontent with their anger, I do think it is understandable. If you are having trouble processing the anger of some gays and lesbians perhaps it would be best not to bring up the issue of Christianity.

They took our right to pray in school, they fight against any religious public display, they even want to remove the word God from our money.

Surely you aren’t blaming gays and lesbians for all those things? You mentioned abortion supporters and embryonic stem cell advocates… but they didn’t do those things either. Secularism is definitely on the increase in the US (although far less so than in Europe.) I think secularists are who you really want to single out for blame since of those three groups you mentioned, all have members who are deeply religious.

Does anyone have any ideas to help keep from getting angry at what I see is our nation experiencing the total falling away from morality and living a God-less life?

I grew up without prayer in public schools, and with government sponsored religious displays forbidden, so it is a bit difficult for me to relate to being on the verge of anger about these issues. They just seem normal to me. As for the morality of people around you, I guess my attitude is that we are not to judge. I think we should make the right choices for ourselves and help those who want help. But otherwise not take things too personally.

 

[MDK]

Same sex marriage just became legal in my state today. I’ve been reading newspaper forums on the subject and am amazed at how angry supporters of gay marriage are. There is an amazing hatred for ANY Christian value, belief or point of view. How can one follow Christ’s command to love thy neighbor when we are facing such hatred? I am having a very hard time dealing with this. I personally feel that the gay right activists, along with abortion supporters, stem cell advocates, etc., blame us Christians for oppressing them and going to war against them and their beliefs, but I see that we are the ones being oppressed. They took our right to pray in school, they fight against any religious public display, they even want to remove the word God from our money. Does anyone have any ideas to help keep from getting angry at what I see is our nation experiencing the total falling away from morality and living a God-less life?

Sadly, some will side with any immorality as a rejection of true authority so they can continue to practice whatever disobedience they really want, even if different from the issue at hand. They are deluded, as in rejecting God’s Authority and Love, these people become slaves to sin. Only in being obedient to God are we truly free.

Christ was hated and rejected while He was on earth. What makes any of us think it’s different today. The world hated Him, and hates us.

 

[LutheranDK]

Honest to goodness I was starting to believe the anti-gay-rights activists and all their pitiful attempts to argue “freedom of religion” and “we’re the victims,” nonesense. Thank heavens I saw the movie “Milk,” it shook me back to my senses.

Three words.

Get…

Over…

Yourself…

In two dozen states right here in the U.S it is still legal to fire somebody from their job soley on the basis of their sexual orientation. In dozens of countries worldwide it is perfectly legal to execute somebody soley basis of their sexual orientation. That nut-job Steven King in the Senate still opposes gay-hate crime legeslation because it would discourage gay people from “keeping things private.” Disgusting. Gay people in America are suffering far worse for the way they were created and born than you ever could for what religion you chosen to follow.

I dare you to come back in a year and cite one significant way your life has been altered because of gay marriage being legalized. And being disagreed with in a newspaper doesn’t count.

You’re being ridiculous! The fact that some contries regards homophilia as a capital offence is hardly relevant to whether or not the West should go to the other extreme and pretend that it is as valid and natural as normal relations between a man and a woman.

Secondly - The question of whether or not homophilia is inherently genetic is still very much a subject of debate. That there might be genetics that give some people a stronger tendency towards homophilia seems to be the case. But it is also an undeniable fact that not all those who have this gene are homophiles, and that childhood/adolescent events play a huge role in the development of sexuality.

Homiphile marriage is an oxymoron - and all the political correctness in the world doesn’t change that.
You call yourself a “non-denominational Christian”, yet your rhetoric is more akin to that of die-hard atheists like Dawkins - and your behavior towards someone who you should consider a brother in Christ speaks a lot louder than your words.

“By their fruits shall ye know them…”

 

[MDK]

Honest to goodness I was starting to believe the anti-gay-rights activists and all their pitiful attempts to argue “freedom of religion” and “we’re the victims,” nonesense. Thank heavens I saw the movie “Milk,” it shook me back to my senses.

Three words.

Get…

Over…

Yourself…

In two dozen states right here in the U.S it is still legal to fire somebody from their job soley on the basis of their sexual orientation. In dozens of countries worldwide it is perfectly legal to execute somebody soley basis of their sexual orientation. That nut-job Steven King in the Senate still opposes gay-hate crime legeslation because it would discourage gay people from “keeping things private.” Disgusting. Gay people in America are suffering far worse for the way they were created and born than you ever could for what religion you chosen to follow.

I dare you to come back in a year and cite one significant way your life has been altered because of gay marriage being legalized. And being disagreed with in a newspaper doesn’t count.

Perhaps rather than listen to “saint Spikoli”, I mean Sean Penn, it would be worthwhile to understand how we are a fabric of people. To know something is wrong in the eyes of God, and to say it is okay for our brother or sister to do this is irresponsible and not being a decent Christian. We are not to condemn one, but to reject behaviors in our society. A moral law is a just law. We have laws against murder for instance. Do you want to repeal that as well, so people can do what they want to each other? No. As responsible Christians, we must affect society. To be lazy or apathetic is to let evil win. Christ was neither lazy nor apathetic. There will always be sin in the world. However, if we love God, then we desire that He is respected in Society, and that society not sanction behaviors that are against His Holy Will. If people sin, they should do it without the “blessing” of our society. A society that is in moral decline is on the way to ultimate demise.

 

[Swan]

Perhaps rather than listen to “saint Spikoli”, I mean Sean Penn, it would be worthwhile to understand how we are a fabric of people. To know something is wrong in the eyes of God, and to say it is okay for our brother or sister to do this is irresponsible and not being a decent Christian. We are not to condemn one, but to reject behaviors in our society. A moral law is a just law. We have laws against murder for instance. Do you want to repeal that as well, so people can do what they want to each other? No. As responsible Christians, we must affect society. To be lazy or apathetic is to let evil win. Christ was neither lazy nor apathetic. There will always be sin in the world. However, if we love God, then we desire that He is respected in Society, and that society not sanction behaviors that are against His Holy Will. If people sin, they should do it without the “blessing” of our society. A society that is in moral decline is on the way to ultimate demise.

The problem is that this is your interpretation of God’s law - not everyone agrees with you. There are many Christians who disagree, and of course, plenty of non-Christians as well. And that’s just it - you see, we live in a country where it is illegal to force your religious beliefs on another, regarldess of the fact that you think you have some sort of divine right to do so. In the past that same belief led to persections, wars, and executions. Indeed, in other parts of the world other religions use that same “divine right to punish those who offend” their version of god to execute a wide variety of folks, gays included. But in the US we frown on this. We are not a theocracy - and you should be glad since the odds of us being a Catholic theocracy are nil. There are folks, as you well no, the in the US who feel God has clearly pointed out that Catholics are evil. Should we let these folks dictate public policy?

 

[apromisemade]

You’re being ridiculous! The fact that some contries regards homophilia as a capital offence is hardly relevant to whether or not the West should go to the other extreme and pretend that it is as valid and natural as normal relations between a man and a woman.

Secondly - The question of whether or not homophilia is inherently genetic is still very much a subject of debate. That there might be genetics that give some people a stronger tendency towards homophilia seems to be the case. But it is also an undeniable fact that not all those who have this gene are homophiles, and that childhood/adolescent events play a huge role in the development of sexuality.

Homiphile marriage is an oxymoron - and all the political correctness in the world doesn’t change that.
You call yourself a “non-denominational Christian”, yet your rhetoric is more akin to that of die-hard atheists like Dawkins - and your behavior towards someone who you should consider a brother in Christ speaks a lot louder than your words.

“By their fruits shall ye know them…”

You completely and totally missed my point. The OP is getting up on a soap box because he/she seems to think all the anger coming from the pro- gay rights is all about persecuting her as a Catholic. The anger is coming from year of frustration rooted in chastizing, discrimination, and degregation the homosexual community all over the world has and continues to suffer.

As far as the personal attack on me and my merits as a Christian, I have no qualms about saying that anyone who would look down on and demean a whole group of people for simply being who they are and make a blanket judgement about them is no brother of mine, in Christ or any other way.

 

[AdriannaJean]

I would take comfort in knowing that we are being tested and in the end God’s word will prevail, whether that ends in the West becoming Christian again or the second coming, I can’t say. But God has a plan in all of this.

It’s an odd correlation to make, but I look at it this way: Christianity has flourished and grown, not in moral societies, but in amoral ones. Christianity spread like wildfire in ancient Rome where:

• gay sex was a cultural norm
  -infanticide was common (think abortion)
  -sexual freedom was rampant (think sexual revolution)
  And, it was in this environment that Christ made His mark. People in an immoral society are always left wanting something that society cannot fulfill. That is when people turn to Christ.

 

[cargau]

way your life has been altered because of gay marriage being legalized. And being disagreed with in a newspaper doesn’t count.

The family, with a mother and a father is the cornerstone of society. Allowing gays to marry blurs the definition of family as it has been understood since Adam and Eve.

Society will suffer if the family is allowed to be further eroded. If 2 men or 2 women can marry, why not a man and a sheep or a woman and her dog. After all, “God made them that way”.

The sanctity of a family should be defended and protected and nothing should ever be allowed to resemble this beautiful and efficacious design of the creator.

I don’t favor hurting gays. But, I am at a loss to understand that if it is not permissable for them to marry that we have somehow violated their rights. I believe that it is the gays who are infringing on the majority with their agenda and thus weakening that which is sacred.
In a word, it is simply the wrong form. It’s kind of like using a picture frame to drive in a nail. I suppose you could try it, but that is not the intended purpose of a picture frame.

You ask, how does it hurt me…I ask, how does my position to protect marriage hurt gays???

 

[gardenswithkids]

Same sex marriage just became legal in my state today. I’ve been reading newspaper forums on the subject and am amazed at how angry supporters of gay marriage are. There is an amazing hatred for ANY Christian value, belief or point of view. How can one follow Christ’s command to love thy neighbor when we are facing such hatred? I am having a very hard time dealing with this. I personally feel that the gay right activists, along with abortion supporters, stem cell advocates, etc., blame us Christians for oppressing them and going to war against them and their beliefs, but I see that we are the ones being oppressed. They took our right to pray in school, they fight against any religious public display, they even want to remove the word God from our money. Does anyone have any ideas to help keep from getting angry at what I see is our nation experiencing the total falling away from morality and living a God-less life?

We don’t just follow His command–we follow His example. He was hated. He was persecuted. He was even killed. Yet from the cross He said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

Christinity invites us to follow Christ. Jesus understood that those who persecuted Him didn’t really understand what they were doing. I suspect sinners (and we are all sinners) don’t fully understand sins. When we see sin for what it truly is, most would want to run from something so hideous and ugly. Yet we can grow complacent with sin, and many may not recognize right from wrong… The current members of society didn’t just suddenly wake up and one day demand change to the definition of marriage. They are the by-products of a society that perverted heterosexual marriage and human sexuality with no-fault divorce and remarriage, contraception, pre-marital sex, pornography, and a whole host of other sins. While we have responsibility for our personal sins, we are also affected by those around us and what we do affects others.

Let’s ask God to be merciful to all of us. Rather than getting angry, try to be the best person you can be. Try to be like Jesus in everything you do. If you want to reverse the current cultural tide, ask God for the grace to make you a saint.

 

[MDK]

The problem is that this is your interpretation of God’s law - not everyone agrees with you. There are many Christians who disagree, and of course, plenty of non-Christians as well. And that’s just it - you see, we live in a country where it is illegal to force your religious beliefs on another, regarldess of the fact that you think you have some sort of divine right to do so. In the past that same belief led to persections, wars, and executions. Indeed, in other parts of the world other religions use that same “divine right to punish those who offend” their version of god to execute a wide variety of folks, gays included. But in the US we frown on this. We are not a theocracy - and you should be glad since the odds of us being a Catholic theocracy are nil. There are folks, as you well no, the in the US who feel God has clearly pointed out that Catholics are evil. Should we let these folks dictate public policy?

Nevertheless, the truth is the truth, whether everyone believes the truth or no one does… it is always the truth. This is what I deal in. This is what I ask others to consider.

Even so, what you expressed indicated a lack of understanding of my original post, and lacks depth of this kind of issue. However, I’ll give you some insight into that which you brought up.

There is no problem with what I said, only a problem of people who rebel against God. God has the Divine right. He has revealed attributes about Himself and teachings for us to live by and obey. For those who know them and seek to obey God, it is for us to tell others and ask them to consider. For those who disagree or do not really know them, they will proceed to denigrate, criticize, and attempt to cloud the issue with falsehoods, like you for instance, opposing what God has asked of those who seek to follow him.

In your example, those who call Catholics evil would be very displeasing to God, as He built the Catholic Church with Peter as visible head. To denigrate the Bride of Christ is never good. We know that the ignorant and/or hateful will denigrate the Bride of Christ, will denigrate His mother Mary, will call His true followers all kinds of things… why, because the same happened to Him while He walked on the earth.

So, there is Truth which is not relative, and we must seek to follow. Some will be right and follow the truth, and others are wrong in following their own way. Nonetheless, when one has been taught correctly and follows God, they must speak the truths they know… otherwise, they are allowing evil to proceed unchecked. God knows his sheep, and they know Him.

PS: On your “coexist” symbol, God only created two of those religions, and the first is no longer to be practiced as it has been fulfilled. The New Covenant has the fullness of God’s Church that subsists only in the Catholic Church.

 

[apromisemade]

The family, with a mother and a father is the cornerstone of society. Allowing gays to marry blurs the definition of family as it has been understood since Adam and Eve.

Aaaannd?? . That still begs the question of how it hurts anybody. Anti-gay rights activists love to make this broad, vague statement about how it will erode society and dilute the family but fail go give specifics. At least feasible ones.

Society will suffer if the family is allowed to be further eroded. If 2 men or 2 women can marry, why not a man and a sheep or a woman and her dog. After all, “God made them that way”.

This kind of attitude is exactly why I so adamatly support homosexuals having the same rights as anyother dignified human being. To act like the next step would be man marrying animals is to imply that gays are a step down from being human. Heterosexuals have done a perfectly fine job of mangeling marriage and family all on their own. If it’s really the family you care about, why are you not pouring just as much energy into reducing the divorce rate as it is right now between straight couples as you are of depriving gay couples of even a 50/50 chance at the same peace and stability straight people are perfectly free to obtain and discard on a whim.

The sanctity of a family should be defended and protected and nothing should ever be allowed to resemble this beautiful and efficacious design of the creator.

I simply reiterate what I said above.

I don’t favor hurting gays.

How charitable of you.

But, I am at a loss to understand that if it is not permissable for them to marry that we have somehow violated their rights. I believe that it is the gays who are infringing on the majority with their agenda and thus weakening that which is sacred.
In a word, it is simply the wrong form. It’s kind of like using a picture frame to drive in a nail. I suppose you could try it, but that is not the intended purpose of a picture frame.

You ask, how does it hurt me…I ask, how does my position to protect marriage hurt gays???

If things stay the way they are now, there are rights, freedoms, and securities straight people will have that gay people will not. If gay people are allowed to marry, it will take absolutely nothing away from the straight community. It’s not like something is being taken from one group and given to another, it is merely being expanded.

You guys always say “think of the children.” Your position to “protect marriage” hurts gays because, I gaurantee you, it causes a gay child somewhere to grow up bitter and angry because he lives in a society that is indirectly and directly telling him every day that he is below everyone else because he is different.

 

[gardenswithkids]

*…*That still begs the question of how it hurts anybody. …

A perfectly reasonable question for you to ask** on another thread.**

The original poster asked a different question. I’m sure many people would be happy to answer your question, but to engage in that question here derails this thread. The original topic asked how to deal with anger over people and courts changing the definition of marriage in addition to the changes in many other aspects of our society’s moral compass.

 

[apromisemade]

A perfectly reasonable question for you to ask** on another thread.**

The original poster asked a different question. I’m sure many people would be happy to answer your question, but to engage in that question here derails this thread. The original topic asked how to deal with anger over people and courts changing the definition of marriage in addition to the changes in many other aspects of our society’s moral compass.

*Easy there *.

Your assertion is valid, but the OP was the one who brought up that issue, not me. I was simply responding to topics and even direct questions she or he raised.

 

[MDK]

*Easy there *.

Your assertion is valid, but the OP was the one who brought up that issue, not me. I was simply responding to topics and even direct questions she or he raised.

Gardens is correct. The OP was about the nation falling further away from Christian values. It is wrong to say the OP brought it up (referring to how this hurts or doesn’t hurt someone), as that assertion regarding the OP from you is simply not true. You brought up that new issue. You’re very wrong in your line of thinking anyway, so please start another thread if you want to discuss how you misunderstand the salient points.

 

[MDK]

…
If things stay the way they are now, there are rights, freedoms, and securities straight people will have that gay people will not. If gay people are allowed to marry, it will take absolutely nothing away from the straight community. It’s not like something is being taken from one group and given to another, it is merely being expanded.

Untrue. Homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals. What they want are special rights just for them. By allowing this, we are setting a social seal of approval on immoral behaviors, and moving further from God. Just as an unmarried heterosexual must remain chaste, so must one with homosexual tendencies. The one who has homosexual tendencies has the right to be married heterosexually, just as I do, as God established. If they don’t want to, then they must remain chaste as an unmarried person. Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve… right?

You guys always say “think of the children.” Your position to “protect marriage” hurts gays because, I gaurantee you, it causes a gay child somewhere to grow up bitter and angry because he lives in a society that is indirectly and directly telling him every day that he is below everyone else because he is different.

Think of the adults as well, but the children being malformed in conscience are a problem as well. Marriage between a man and woman is what God established. We have no moral right to say otherwise. However, those who decide on their own what truth is and is not, then attribute that falsely to God will tell us anything at all… please stop this practice. We as a nation are sanctioning immoral behaviors as though it were a God given sanctified Grace. This is reprehensible, and those who love God will fight against it. You have chosen your side, so don’t be surprised that those who truly obey God will feel that you are an enemy. The enemies of God are trying to pull this country in the wrong direction. Please stop.

 

[MDK]

…In an appropriate attempt to separate church and state, the laws are NOT taking away anyone’s religious freedoms; they are trying to stop discriminating against any particular group.

Currently, abortion is legal murder in the US. Should the US stop discriminating against the rest of the people who desire to murder another, whether family member or not? What about stealing… are we discriminating against those who want property but don’t own it and will not engage in lawful acquisition? What about child pornography… are we infringing on their rights as well? Perhaps the US should change those laws as well so as not to discriminate against others who want to engage in all the forms of immoral behaviors? No, of course not… this would not only be silly, but also be harmful. How has the legal murder of abortion helped us as a society? It has not, but has harmed us greatly.

There are appropriate ways to govern society. Yours is not appropriate, but gets us further from our Lord’s ways and laws. If someone wants to murder, they do it against the legal will of society. If someone wants to steal, they do it against the legal will of society. f someone wants to promote or distribute child pornography, they should do it against the legal will of society. If someone wants to engage in homosexual unions, they need to do this against the legal will of society.

If a man and woman desire to join in marriage, they should do it with the legal will of society. This keeps us closer to God.