Homosexual Priests

[Other_Eric]

I am not a church expert, but celebate is celebate (did I spell that right?) whether homosexual or not, you must adhere to your vow of celebacy. God Bless.

Celibacy is a gift of the Holy Spirit whereby an individual, in this case a priest, sacrifices the good of having his own family in order to minister to the Church. Since those with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for this type of family, their sexual faculty being perverted against God, they have no licit sacrifice to make. To equate the Manichean sexual suppression of those with same-sex attractions to the noble sacrifice made by members of the cloth is to both minimize the sacrifice of the priest and elevate a disgusting perversion to a level of respectability.

 

[CatholicCajun]

Celibacy is a gift of the Holy Spirit whereby an individual, in this case a priest, sacrifices the good of having his own family in order to minister to the Church. Since those with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for this type of family, their sexual faculty being perverted against God, they have no licit sacrifice to make. To equate the Manichean sexual suppression of those with same-sex attractions to the noble sacrifice made by members of the cloth is to both minimize the sacrifice of the priest and elevate a disgusting perversion to a level of respectability.

Thank you so much for showing me this point. That is why I love this place, I get to be educated on things. God Bless.

 

[MMLJ]

Celibacy is a gift of the Holy Spirit whereby an individual, in this case a priest, sacrifices the good of having his own family in order to minister to the Church. Since those with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for this type of family, their sexual faculty being perverted against God, they have no licit sacrifice to make. To equate the Manichean sexual suppression of those with same-sex attractions to the noble sacrifice made by members of the cloth is to both minimize the sacrifice of the priest and elevate a disgusting perversion to a level of respectability.

Excellent points. I would go further and say it is worse than disgusting perversion and must be stopped.

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

Priests according to the Bible, Saints, and the Catholic encyclopedia ARE NOT priests. Look It Up please at your own discretion.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

 

[Genesis315]

Excellent points. I would go further and say it is worse than disgusting perversion and must be stopped.

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

Priests according to the Bible, Saints, and the Catholic encyclopedia ARE NOT priests. Look It Up please at your own discretion.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

There’s a difference between a desire and a temptation. Look, you can spurn the policy of a Pope and Saint if you like (St. Leo IX), but I don’t recommend it.

 

[MMLJ]

There’s a difference between a desire and a temptation. Look, you can spurn the policy of a Pope and Saint if you like (St. Leo IX), but I don’t recommend it.

Your recommendation is noted, thank you. But it is as is written in the Catholic Encyclopedia, And neither You Nor I can put spin on its meaning or intent:

**Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN
**

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

 

[stmaria]

Some bishops are advocates of taking homosexuals into seminary. These bishops are in serious disconnect with the Church and risk losing their souls.

I didn’t want to believe it but it is true. Read the book *Goodbye Good Men *by Michale Rose. The book names names and it names the seminaries that have been intentionally rejecting straight men.

 

[St_Isidore]

There’s a difference between a desire and a temptation. Look, you can spurn the policy of a Pope and Saint if you like (St. Leo IX), but I don’t recommend it.

I do not think that is what is present here but in actuality this member MMLJ has used, and rightly so, the Catholic Encyclopedia to elucidate the confusion of Catholics on the policy of Homosexuality within the Church. Since it is a Sin, and Hence a sin is evil it suffices to say that it is not of GOD. This can only be true. Evil is evil whether it may be thought or action or desire. It is only logical, since anatomically speaking the thought/desire proceeds the action and so thoughts are are part of the whole sin. One should not separate the desire of sodomy from the action of sodomy. AND HERE LIES THE DILEMMA - THESE TWO ARE ACTUALLY ONE AND THE SAME SIN. Homosexuals should realize this and unless have eliminated evil they should not seek the priesthood.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

I didn’t want to believe it but it is true. Read the book *Goodbye Good Men *by Michale Rose. The book names names and it names the seminaries that have been intentionally rejecting straight men.

There are numerous websites that have articles of newspaper columns that shine the light on some archdiocese.

A number of good priests have been suspended or even defrocked for whistle-blowing on the saturation of homosexual priests in their diocese. These good priests are truly men of God and have been vanquished for calling attention to the grossest problem in the Church today.

The acting out of homosexual urges is proof-positive that a person is possessed by a demon of deviation; nothing short of exorcism can rid that person, in my opinion. As St. Paul states there is a demon present in these urgings and actions.

The Church is being reduced financially by the many, many lawsuits and that is a form of “bringing the Church to its knees”, so to speak.

One diocese has expelled THREE priests for sounding the alarm.

We are warned by Our Lord of false shepards…we must recognize them by their deeds.

 

[MMLJ]

There are numerous websites that have articles of newspaper columns that shine the light on some archdiocese.

A number of good priests have been suspended or even defrocked for whistle-blowing on the saturation of homosexual priests in their diocese. These good priests are truly men of God and have been vanquished for calling attention to the grossest problem in the Church today.

The acting out of homosexual urges is proof-positive that a person is possessed by a demon of deviation; nothing short of exorcism can rid that person, in my opinion. As St. Paul states there is a demon present in these urgings and actions.

The Church is being reduced financially by the many, many lawsuits and that is a form of “bringing the Church to its knees”, so to speak.

One diocese has expelled THREE priests for sounding the alarm.

We are warned by Our Lord of false shepards…we must recognize them by their deeds.

Excellent Point. There is a possession present in homosexuality and I am in full agreement with member St. Isidore here:

I do not think that is what is present here but in actuality this member MMLJ has used, and rightly so, the Catholic Encyclopedia to elucidate the confusion of Catholics on the policy of Homosexuality within the Church. Since it is a Sin, and Hence a sin is evil it suffices to say that it is not of GOD. This can only be true. Evil is evil whether it may be thought or action or desire. It is only logical, since anatomically speaking the thought/desire proceeds the action and so thoughts are are part of the whole sin. One should not separate the desire of sodomy from the action of sodomy. AND HERE LIES THE DILEMMA - THESE TWO ARE ACTUALLY ONE AND THE SAME SIN. Homosexuals should realize this and unless have eliminated evil they should not seek the priesthood.

Homosexuality within the Church must be stoppped. Their should be no desire for Man to desire another Man, and this thought obviously pertains to sodomy which is an Evil that cries to heaven for Vengence. If there are priests that are Homosexual in thought than may GOD help them. From my previous post the Catholic Encyclopedia is clear:

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

 

[Sure]

Excellent Point. There is a possession present in homosexuality and I am in full agreement with member St. Isidore here:

Homosexuality within the Church must be stoppped. Their should be no desire for Man to desire another Man, and this thought obviously pertains to sodomy which is an Evil that cries to heaven for Vengence. If there are priests that are Homosexual in thought than may GOD help them. From my previous post the Catholic Encyclopedia is clear:

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

Same sex attraction is not in and of itself a sin. It is a disordered desire. Similar to the desire to drink excessively, abuse oneself or others, steal others property, hurt small animals, etc. A disordered desire does NOT constitute a sin unless it one gives consent to or entertains thoughts of the desire. A thought is not the same as a desire or inclination.

 

[MMLJ]

Same sex attraction is not in and of itself a sin. It is a disordered desire. Similar to the desire to drink excessively, abuse oneself or others, steal others property, hurt small animals, etc. A disordered desire does NOT constitute a sin unless it one gives consent to or entertains thoughts of the desire. A thought is not the same as a desire or inclination.

Please do not put spin on the Catholic Encyclopedia. That is ridiculous. You know perfectly well that There are different types of sins. Please refer to the Catholic Encyclopedia (www.newadvent.org)). Do not try and rewrite the Catholic Encyclopedia.

You Cannot and Shall not Ever Equate The Sin of desire to commit Sodomy with the Sin to Commit to drink Alcohol. That is competelely ridiculous and Misleading. The Sin to desire Sodomy is a sin crying to heaven for vengeance, a Mortal sin.
Please **do not MISLEAD **those who are not aware of differences in SINS. This thread is for information sharing, discussion, and a Christian demeanor. Thank you kindly.

Let me refresh the previous posts:

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

**Mortal sin **is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

If a priest desires/lusts another man and thinks of Sodomy, he ceases to be a priest. END OF STORY. Unless you and others consent to a priest who thinks of Sodomy? Because that what we are all talking about when we say same sex attraction is it not? Why not say it like it is? It is one man thinking of another man in a sexual way , which is desiring SODOMY! This is an abomination in the eyes of GOD. Or are you and others saying GOD is okay with a Priest thinking of Sodomy on occasion?
Where did we get this Word, Sodomy, from? I do not know about you but I would not send my son to be an alter server at the Church of a Priest who on Occasion Thinks/Desires to Commit the Mortal Sin of SODOMY, would you?

It was from the Wrath of God in Genesis.

Genesis 19

24 And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
28 He looked towards Sodom and Gomorrha, and the whole land of that country: and he saw the ashes rise up from the earth as the smoke of a furnace.

we are reminded again in:

St Luke 17
29 And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all

 

[Sure]

Please do not put spin on the Catholic Encyclopedia. That is ridiculous. You know perfectly well that There are different types of sins. Please refer to the Catholic Encyclopedia (www.newadvent.org)). Do not try and rewrite the Catholic Encyclopedia.

You Cannot and Shall not Ever Equate The Sin of desire to commit Sodomy with the Sin to Commit to drink Alcohol. That is competelely ridiculous and Misleading. The Sin to desire Sodomy is a sin crying to heaven for vengeance, a Mortal sin.
Please **do not MISLEAD **those who are not aware of differences in SINS. This thread is for information sharing, discussion, and a Christian demeanor. Thank you kindly.

Let me refresh the previous posts:

Catholic Encyclopedia
III. MORTAL SIN

**Mortal sin **is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Published 1912 or here is the link:
newadvent.org/

If a priest desires/lusts another man and thinks of Sodomy, he ceases to be a priest. END OF STORY. Unless you and others consent to a priest who thinks of Sodomy? Because that what we are all talking about when we say same sex attraction is it not? Why not say it like it is? It is one man thinking of another man in a sexual way , which is desiring SODOMY! This is an abomination in the eyes of GOD. Or are you and others saying GOD is okay with a Priest thinking of Sodomy on occasion?
Where did we get this Word, Sodomy, from? I do not know about you but I would not send my son to be an alter server at the Church of a Priest who on Occasion Thinks/Desires to Commit the Mortal Sin of SODOMY, would you?

It was from the Wrath of God in Genesis.

Genesis 19

24 And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
28 He looked towards Sodom and Gomorrha, and the whole land of that country: and he saw the ashes rise up from the earth as the smoke of a furnace.

we are reminded again in:

St Luke 17
29 And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all

Ummm…first off, your tendency to randomly capitalize words in the middle of sentences makes you seem, well, crazy.

And thanks for the attempted little lesson in the etymology of “sodomy”; I’m aware of its origins.

More importantly, I made no attempt to rewrite the Catholic Encyclopedia. But, I would say from your post above that perhaps you may have. There is nothing in the quotation you posted that supports your opinion that a priest who thinks of sodomy ceases to be a priest. To say such a thing shows your total lack of knowledge as to Holy Orders and the christian concept of sin. For there to be a sin one must consent or entertain the disordered desire.

The point here is that frequently people have desires that are disordered. What constitutes sin or a good act is how one responds to these desires. If one pushes the temptation away and refuses to yield, one commits a good act. If one gives in, one commits sin, whether that sin be a physical act or just an entertained thought.

As this applies to homosexuality and homosexual acts you can find a good explanation of the Churches teaching here:

catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

You might note that they also use the analogy to alcoholism.

Good luck in your research!

 

[Other_Eric]

Same sex attraction is not in and of itself a sin. It is a disordered desire. Similar to the desire to drink excessively, abuse oneself or others, steal others property, hurt small animals, etc. A disordered desire does NOT constitute a sin unless it one gives consent to or entertains thoughts of the desire. A thought is not the same as a desire or inclination.

The idea that same-sex attractions, in and of themselves, are not sinful does indeed form a significant cornerstone of much of the pastoral methodology of the past forty years or so. I note that this is the clarion call of organizations such as Courage who crudely attempt to equate the virtue of chastity with personal sexual suppression in order to admit those with same-sex desires into the Church. They even go so far as to minimize the severity of the sin by equating it with heterosexual fornication or contraception. A moment’s thought will reveal that this position has absolutely no foundation in Scripture, Tradition or any of the Church’s teachings.

To begin with, that same-sex attraction is unwilled is at odds with Church teaching. Scripture specifically identifies same-sex attraction as a consequence of willful idolatry. (1) The Church used her authority as authoritative interpreter of Scripture to specifically ratify this interpretation when she said:

Instead of the original harmony between Creator and creatures, the acute distortion of idolatry has led to all kinds of moral excess. Paul is at a loss to find a clearer example of this disharmony than homosexual relations. (2)

And again:

In Sacred Scripture [homosexual acts] are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God. (3)

Since the Church teaches that the temptation manifests itself as a direct consequence of idolatry, you might be correct in saying that the temptation itself is not sinful, but only in some strained, abstract sense which has no practical application. The temptation does not exist except for the errant behavior of the individual afflicted with it.

The attempt to equate the sin of same-sex behavior with fornication or contraception is ignorant of Tradition. The Church has always taught, and everyone knew she taught that the sin involved with same-sex attractions was unique in its depravity. Aquinas taught that it was worse than even heterosexual rape or incest, (4) Dante places the sodomites in a different and deeper circle of hell than those who succumb to lusts for the opposite sex, (5) Tertullian called unnatural lusts in particular “monstrosities,” (6) and finally, Lot famously preferred that his daughters be raped by the crowd outside of his house than that his male guests be defiled. (7)

(continued below…)

 

[Other_Eric]

(…continued from above)

It also betrays an ignorance of exactly what the virtue of chastity is. Chastity, as defined by the Church is “the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being.” (8) Because the sexuality of one with same-sex attractions is disordered against God (9) one can no more integrate it into one’s person than one could integrate blasphemy into the Mass. To try to equate the sexual suppression advocated by groups such as Courage with chastity is therefore misguided and unrealistic. Indeed,

. . . one of the most dangerous forms of this unrealism is to think that one can live without sexuality. This is the old heresy of manicheism or albigensianism which long ago led to terrible sexual excesses on the part of those who sought to be absolutely pure. These misguided heretics are a reminder that one of the most dangerous sexual unrealisms is the pretense that humans can be angels. (10)

Inherent in this ideology is rank heresy.

You might then be tempted to say that it is only the same-sex genital act that the Church condemns, but this is a myopic and shallow reading of the teaching. We ought remind ourselves that “homosexuality has very little to do with sex.” (11) Augustine’s definition of sin, mentioned earlier in this thread and affirmed in the Catechism (12) includes the desires we find ourselves subject to and since Christ calls us to internal purity (13) what is required is the proper and natural ordering of one’s libido. Further, since the Church teaches that the sexuality regulates “the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others” (14) in even a platonic fashion, and since the sexuality is disordered in one with same-sex attractions (15) it becomes obvious that mere genital expression is only the beginning of the sinful applications of this disorder. Every relationship such a person might attempt becomes implicated.

The cross appointed to those who experience same-sex attractions is to become rid of them by whatever means is most efficacious. Anything less is either obstinacy, sloth or both.

(continued below…)

 

[Other_Eric]

(…continued from above)

(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. Rom 1:22-27. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm

(2) Ratzinger, Joseph. Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons. Rome: Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, October 1, 1986. §6. Available online at: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

(3) Seper, Fanjo. Persona Humana: Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics. Vatican City: Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 1975. VIII. Available online at: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

(4) Aquinas, Thomas. Summa Theologica. 1920. New Advent. Trans. Fathers of the English Dominican Province. Online Edition, 2006. Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 154, Art. 12. Available online at:newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm#12

(5) Aligheri, Dante. The Divine Comedy. Trans. H. F. Cary. London: Cassell and Company, Limited. Canto XV. Available online at: bulfinch.englishatheist.org/dante/hell/p6.htm#c15

(6) Tertullian. On Modesty. Trans. S. Thelwall. Chapter 4. Available online at: newadvent.org/fathers/0407.htm

(7) New American Bible. Gen. 19:7-8. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis19.htm

(8) Catechism of the Catholic Church. Vatican City: Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1993. ¶ 2337. Available online at:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

(9) Ibid. ¶2358. Available online at: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

(10) Groeschel, Benedict J. The Courage to be Chaste. Mawah: Paulist Press, 1985. p. 35.

(11) Harvey, John F. The Truth About Homosexuality. San Francisco, CA: Ignatius Press. 1996. p. 122.

(12) Catechism of the Catholic Church. ¶1849. Available online at: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6A.HTM

(13) New American Bible. Matt 5:28. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

(14) Catechism of the Catholic Church. ¶2332. Available online at: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P84.HTM

(15) Ibid. ¶2358. Available online at: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

 

[MMLJ]

Ummm…first off, your tendency to randomly capitalize words in the middle of sentences makes you seem, well, crazy.

I am not sure if know what random is, but they were not randomized capitalizations. I think there is a medical disorder for not noticing that and it is within the same family of disorders as dyslexia. If you need assistance I can provide links. I shall pray for you.

And thanks for the attempted little lesson in the etymology of “sodomy”; I’m aware of its origins.

Good for you! So what is the problem then?

More importantly, I made no attempt to rewrite the Catholic Encyclopedia.

That is a relief.

There is nothing in the quotation you posted that supports your opinion that a priest who thinks of sodomy ceases to be a priest.

You are obviously either very confused or in the wrong thread. Are you Sure or Unsure? Please read all the postings Read slowly and surely you will find all what you have neglected to read. And good luck in your enlightenment!
God Bless.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

GENERAL REMINDER:

The question for this thread is:

Does the Church ordain men as priests who are ‘homosexual’. Not in the sense that they do the acts, but by being opressed by those temptations.

Those wishing to discuss the moral theology aspects of homosexuality or other issues should join a thread already in progress or initiate one of their own in the appropriate forum.

Your assistance in staying with the topic will help keep the thread open.