Homosexual relationship as "irregular situation"

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Could it be inferred that a Homosexual Relationship could be seen as an “irregular situation” as put forth in Amoris Laetitia?

If so, would it not imply that those in Homosexual Relationships may not be in a state of Mortal Sin?
 
It is nothing new on Church teaching, it is exactly the same worded more compassionately:
m
iTiGa
TinG
facTors
in
pasToraL
discernmenT
301.
For an adequate understanding of the
possibility and need of special discernment in
certain “irregular” situations, one thing must
always be taken into account, lest anyone think
that the demands of the Gospel are in any way
being compromised. The Church possesses a
solid body of reflection concerning mitigating
factors and situations. Hence it is can no longer
simply be said that all those in any “irregular”
situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are
deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved
here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject
may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values”,
339
or
be in a concrete situation which does not allow
him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin. As the Synod Fathers
put it, “factors may exist which limit the ability to
make a decision”.
340
Saint Thomas Aquinas himself recognized that someone may possess grace
and charity, yet not be able to exercise any one
of the virtues well
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Basically acknowledging personal mental limitations and how to treat such people.
The teaching of the Church has always been that for sins to be mortal, there needs to be full understanding (ie: habits are not quite “mortal” sins) etc… So it has always been the case that a homosexual who truly can not refrain due to mental limits is likely venial sinning rather than mortal. However, I would note that “give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile” applies here a bit. This has always been true, but we should be aware that it is not a “License to ill”…(Beastie Boys LOL)

The real issue which has been the fun that is Pope Francis, is how this is totally what has always been, but soooo many people will think he just all but okayed every sexual sin :confused:

And I emboldened SIMPLY because it doesn’t negate anything other than ask to have more discernment toward the person rather than assume they are in full control.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Could it be inferred that a Homosexual Relationship could be seen as an “irregular situation” as put forth in Amoris Laetitia?

If so, would it not imply that those in Homosexual Relationships may** not** be in a state of Mortal Sin?
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:confused:

Is this what you are asking:
If so, would it imply that those in Homosexual Relationships may not be in a state of Mortal Sin?

If so, then my answer is yes. They can be living together without having sex.
 
What I’m saying, is that a Homosexual relationship might be allowed because of the social ills that may come with giving it up.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
What I’m saying, is that a Homosexual relationship might be allowed because of the social ills that may come with giving it up.
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No, I don’t think it is “Allowed”, more like forgiven for a time…the idea being if ever a point came when they were mentally able to NOT "have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values”… Well at the time they understand, they would need to stop or be mortally sinning.
 
I’d add that prior to the internet I would probably not be a practicing catholic.

When you grow up and societal norms are a way, you have a hard time breaking them. So many posts of people who went through CCD and still barely knew anything. I grew up with the culture catholic mentality: Go to CCD make confirmation and then stop by church for weddings and funerals.

In regard to sinfulness, the question is was I mentally able to “know” better than almost all of my adult role models? all my friends? It is likely that under church teaching, my social conditioning would have made me essentially ignorant even though I “knew” what a sin was. Then I was led by lapse catholics and protestant influences (mixed with the occasional puritain catholic) to believe the church taught things that it does not. Now had I not had access to the internet to search through untold resources and learn things with relative ease and instead had to rely on word of mouth and what some priest said I would have probably never learned that the Church makes sense and would have never come back to be practicing.

On the social conditioning note, people are being conditioned to be some kind of gay and the culture today teaches that most sexual type sins are OKAY and not just okay, but either good or superior. So the subject involved here is if you are socially conditioned to believe that being gay is a natural right, it would take much time and learning within the church for you to wrap your head around what God say over what everyone you know has told you is right.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Could it be inferred that a Homosexual Relationship could be seen as an “irregular situation” as put forth in Amoris Laetitia?

If so, would it not imply that those in Homosexual Relationships may not be in a state of Mortal Sin?
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Hey Zelda. I missed you man. Hope everything’s on an upper climb for you. Sorry about February. I was a bit inside out. But I’m back on top of things.

At least for now.

Peace buddy.

Your pal,

Trident
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
What I’m saying, is that a Homosexual relationship might be allowed because of the social ills that may come with giving it up.
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Now, it is not “allowed”. Neither any other irregular situation is “allowed”. Not being YET in the state of mortal sin does not mean there is no need to get out of that situation.
 
LethalMouse said:
No, I don’t think it is “Allowed”, more like forgiven for a time…the idea being if ever a point came when they were mentally able to NOT "have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values”… Well at the time they understand, they would need to stop or be mortally sinning.
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The relationship may not be “forgiven”. Only the past deeds of a particular person may be forgiven, not any present or future situation.
 
Homosexual relationships/ those in same sex marriages are not mortal sinners destined to hell. It’s a venial sin.

Peace.
 
It’s most definitely grave matter. You cannot categorically state that it is venial.
 
Zeldarocks2 said:
Could it be inferred that a Homosexual Relationship could be seen as an “irregular situation” as put forth in Amoris Laetitia?

If so, would it not imply that those in Homosexual Relationships may not be in a state of Mortal Sin?
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Nothing has changed about what is a sin.

If it was a sin before Amoris Laetitia, it is still a sin.

If it was grave matter, before Amoris Laetitia, it is still grave matter.

But grave matter is only one part of what makes a mortal sin. A.L. give bishops and pastors some other pastoral ways to help a penitent discern full knowledge and deliberate consent.
 
SilverShadow22 said:
It’s most definitely grave matter. You cannot categorically state that it is venial.
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It is indeed grave matter. However most of them are loving people. Just your normal guy. They are not harming anyone and I know many who are compassionate in their relationships.
There are far worse venial sins, and their SIN IS IN A ACT OF LOVE. I agree marriage is between one man and women, but its dangerous and silly to condem those in same sex relationships to hell.

Peace.

John 3:16
 
It is not inherently an act of love. They may see it that way, but it isn’t. It’s intrinsically harmful to everyone concerned. Love wants the best for a person. And let’s not even mention everything that is usually associated with such a lifestyle.
 
JewishCatholic said:
It is indeed grave matter. However most of them are loving people. Just your normal guy. They are not harming anyone and I know many who are compassionate in their relationships.
There are far worse venial sins, and their SIN IS IN A ACT OF LOVE. I agree marriage is between one man and women, but its dangerous and silly to condem those in same sex relationships to hell.

Peace.

John 3:16
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As nice as that sounds. I’m not 100% sure it’s our call to make. And that’s sort of where I see the danger. Because what if we go ahead and tell all these guys it’s cool. But then God doesn’t agree? 🤷
 
If we make it out to be not so bad - not even that harmful - then what are we left with as a reason why people shouldn’t do it? ‘God says so’?

Yeah, that’ll work. :rolleyes:

The are demonstrable reasons, from a secular standpoint, why this sort of lifestyle/behavior is wrong and harmful, not only to the persons involved, but all of society.

No man is an island. No act occurs in a vacuum.

No one can condemn anyone to hell. We can’t ever judge two of the three requisite parts that make a mortal sin: knowledge and consent. We can only judge grave matter, make a guess at knowledge, and have no way at all to determine consent. That’s between God and the person involved.

But let’s not make it out as somehow ok-ish because it is ‘loving’. There are injured people involved. They need help - not excuses.
 
Trident_H said:
As nice as that sounds. I’m not 100% sure it’s our call to make. And that’s sort of where I see the danger. Because what if we go ahead and tell all these guys it’s cool. But then God doesn’t agree? 🤷
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True. I’m a supporter of traditional marriage, and you’re 100% right that its not our call to make. I just don’t believe those who are gay, and have a relationship with someone they love are committing mortal sins and when they die, since their in a state of mortal sin would go to hell:confused:🤷
 
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