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truagape
Guest
If Jude 7 refers to the materialized angels in the Sodom account as “sarkos hetras,” strange flesh, is this an intrepretation or a translation?
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truagape
Guest
Because the so called “anti-gay” passages in the bible, don’t exist.
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He_Man
Guest
I’d be fine if that someone was God, or someone acting in His name.
Like the Roman Catholic Church, for instance.
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sawman
Guest
Before Jesus,Scripture was ascribed authority based on authorship.Even in Jesus’ time the Scribes would refer to Moses or Elijah.I’m sure there is more to it but that was probobly shorthand for the law and the prophets.Ultimately, the Jews knew God was the author.I’m not a scholar or an intellectual like you seem to be,Truagape,but the relevent point is that regardless of how the Jews accorded scripture it’s authority, the reason we do is because of the apostolic authority.More or less.
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truagape
Guest
Fortunately, God never asked that or required it from anyone.
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truagape
Guest
Here you reemphasize the point that the authority is Scripture. And as I have endlessly proclaimed, it is my authority as well. And it is this same authority that is at odds with the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality.
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sawman
Guest
Idon’t care. The Men of Sodom didn’t know that the visitors were angels that is clear from the text.The men of Sodom were intent on having “intimacies” with them.The men of Sodom refer to the angelic visitors as men. I think your idea that the men of Sodom knew and wanted unnatural relations with angels is not only new but unfounded.
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He_Man
Guest
I’ll take the word of someone who is in commuion with the Holy Spirit over that of an anonymous poster on the internet, thanks.
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sawman
Guest
Somehow you’ve gotten the wromg idea from me.Not only is Scripture subordinate in authority to the Majesterium,because it is the majesterium that recognizes scripture’s fitness for being Scripture,but only the Church can say with authority what scripure means.because of apostolic succesion.
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truagape
Guest
I do care. And as I have continually pointed out, there is nothing homo about angels and humans. Furthermore, there is nothing in Scripture that equates the city with homosexuality. So why do you?
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truagape
Guest
If the Jews refered to Elijah in relating to the Old Testament, was scripture, God’s Word, subordinate to him?
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sawman
Guest
Gen.19:4-5.This is a reference to homosexual acts.The townsmen are trying get their hands on the visitors to have intimacies with them. if this does not refer to homosexual relations,what does it refer to?
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truagape
Guest
Regardless of what you think the mob thought, the fact remains that the victims were angels. So the last thing those acts could have been were homosexual.
Its the same concept in regards to the angels who came down from heaven to marry women. This wasn’t a heterosexual encounter despite the fact that they were materialized angels in the form of men with human women.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
It is not homosexual desires that is the sin here.
As an ex-homosexual, I know first hand what the struggles of this person are. I too looked for human relationships, and human power to make me happy. It would last for awhile, and then it would fail, and I would fall back into the same depressive, drinking, drugging etc, until the next one came along. This was frustrating, as I was looking for true love and happiness. I was really addicted to falling in love and was a good sprinter, but those relationships rarely last with no good foundation.
After coming to know Christ the desire for the same sex left me in the blink of an eye, along with alcohol and drugs, i finally found the True Love I had been looking for in all of those bars and other places my whole life. The enduring love of God.
I understand that homosexual acts are disordered, as they never have life giving qualities and are scientifically unnatural. place 1 million homosexual couples on an island with everything they need to survive and in 100 years, you have all dead homosexuals. Place only ten heterosexual couples on that same island for only ten years and you have a village, flourishing and growing.
I also understand that 100% of those wanting to escape the homosexual lifestyle had a non existent father figure, a bad father figure who was not present or abusive, or were sexually abused by an older male figure when they were very young.
This in no way means that all single parent children will be homosexual, but it does mean that the normative family relationship with good parents certainly decreases this trend. As our society becomes more and more saturated with pornography, internet, television and work, and materialism in general, the rise of homosexual children will grow by leaps and bounds, because the normative healthy family is becoming less of the norm and more of the exception. A society is only as strong as the families that occupy it.
It doesn’t take scripture to prove what homosexuality is caused by or how it is disordered, it takes simple science and facts concerning the results of homosexual acts.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity, anything else would be unnatural and against the natural moral law. They can receive and give love to many many others, and be in service to God and others, just as those heterosexuals who are not married. no different. Any sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is unnatural and out of context, therefore a sin, or defect of the human character as it was originally intended to be.
i hope this helps. peace, Justin
As an ex-homosexual, I know first hand what the struggles of this person are. I too looked for human relationships, and human power to make me happy. It would last for awhile, and then it would fail, and I would fall back into the same depressive, drinking, drugging etc, until the next one came along. This was frustrating, as I was looking for true love and happiness. I was really addicted to falling in love and was a good sprinter, but those relationships rarely last with no good foundation.
After coming to know Christ the desire for the same sex left me in the blink of an eye, along with alcohol and drugs, i finally found the True Love I had been looking for in all of those bars and other places my whole life. The enduring love of God.
I understand that homosexual acts are disordered, as they never have life giving qualities and are scientifically unnatural. place 1 million homosexual couples on an island with everything they need to survive and in 100 years, you have all dead homosexuals. Place only ten heterosexual couples on that same island for only ten years and you have a village, flourishing and growing.
I also understand that 100% of those wanting to escape the homosexual lifestyle had a non existent father figure, a bad father figure who was not present or abusive, or were sexually abused by an older male figure when they were very young.
This in no way means that all single parent children will be homosexual, but it does mean that the normative family relationship with good parents certainly decreases this trend. As our society becomes more and more saturated with pornography, internet, television and work, and materialism in general, the rise of homosexual children will grow by leaps and bounds, because the normative healthy family is becoming less of the norm and more of the exception. A society is only as strong as the families that occupy it.
It doesn’t take scripture to prove what homosexuality is caused by or how it is disordered, it takes simple science and facts concerning the results of homosexual acts.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity, anything else would be unnatural and against the natural moral law. They can receive and give love to many many others, and be in service to God and others, just as those heterosexuals who are not married. no different. Any sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is unnatural and out of context, therefore a sin, or defect of the human character as it was originally intended to be.
i hope this helps. peace, Justin
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truagape
Guest
I think the original language of Jude 7 answers your question beautifully.
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davidv
Guest
You have some very serious misconceptions here. I don’t believe any of this.
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sawman
Guest
I’m not sure what you are asking here.The Jews of Jesus’ time would’nt talk of the Old Testament.Nor would they now come to think of it.At some point,the Jewish tradition developed the idea of Scripture as the Word of God.I’m not a scholar.Elijah represented the prophets in a general scense,and was also concidered to be the greatest of prophets,right along side of Moses the lawgiver.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
please read post 172
I have personal experience with homosexuality and have explained a bit of what this person is going through and how i relate.
I have personal experience with homosexuality and have explained a bit of what this person is going through and how i relate.
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truagape
Guest
Your story is intertwined with issues that have nothing to do with homosexuality but everything to do with Christian values and morals. Again, these can accompany anyone, gay or straight. Gay people, in particular, have been biblically beaten to the point of turning a blind eye to God’s Word. Do you get that? You blame homosexuality for the actions of the “gay comminity”, and that couldn’t be furthur from the truth! Lack of Christian principles is to blame, and many “Christians” are the ones who stumbled them away from that.
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sawman
Guest
First of all, the angels weren’t victims they were visitors and eventualy enforcersof the wrath.There was no sexual relations of any kind,that was not the point of punishment.The towns men did want sexual relations and in the process condemned the town.I don’t understand how you can miss the plain meaning of the text.
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