Homosexual Sex

[YosefYosep]

The other day I was posed with a question from a friend of mine, “Why is homosexual sex inherently wrong? And don’t just say ‘because God says so’.” How would I go about explaining to my friend why God forbid homosexual intercourse.

 

[SMGS127]

The other day I was posed with a question from a friend of mine, “Why is homosexual sex inherently wrong? And don’t just say ‘because God says so’.” How would I go about explaining to my friend why God forbid homosexual intercourse.

Sex is meant for one purpose only: to provide for the unitive and procreative purposes of marital relations. Sex between two people of the same sex cannot be unitive in the manner that God intended, and it cannot be aimed in a procreative fashion. Coincidentally, this is also why the Church teaches that contraception used for contraceptive purposes is inherently wrong.

 

[Razanir]

Sex is meant for one purpose only: to provide for the unitive and procreative purposes of marital relations. Sex between two people of the same sex cannot be unitive in the manner that God intended, and it cannot be aimed in a procreative fashion. Coincidentally, this is also why the Church teaches that contraception used for contraceptive purposes is inherently wrong.

As I describe it: It’s not that homosexual sex is inherently wrong. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. And since marriage is between a man and a woman, homosexual sex will always be outside of marriage.

 

[PrincessRenae]

As I describe it: It’s not that homosexual sex is inherently wrong.

???

 

[TK421]

As I describe it: It’s not that homosexual sex is inherently wrong. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. And since marriage is between a man and a woman, homosexual sex will always be outside of marriage.

I think a better way of putting it is that all extra-marital sexual acts are all wrong for the same reason: they either violate the unitive or the procreative bond, or both.

 

[Loving_disciple]

The other day I was posed with a question from a friend of mine, “Why is homosexual sex inherently wrong? And don’t just say ‘because God says so’.” How would I go about explaining to my friend why God forbid homosexual intercourse.

Well because it goes against the natural order that God has set in place. Also because sex outside of marriage is a sin and to marry it must be a union of male and female. Therefore if to males can’t marry they cannot have sex without it being sinful. Also because part of sex is the creation of children and when there is no possiblity of children with the exception of infertal women it is a sin. This is also why contraception is sinful

 

[ynotzap]

We as humans have a rational nature, we have the ability to reason, and make choices.
To act rationally is to order our actions to conform to our rational nature. To act rationally is to act with purpose that produces our well-being. Now our reason reveals to us the purpose of things. We know that the sex act produces other humans, the well-being of society. WE see complimentary sexes when united produce this propagation of the species. This is the natural and logical way for rational people to act. The pleasures of sex are a means to an end (purpose) not an end in itself.just for pleasure. Homosexual acts are not consistent with human rational acts because they can not produce the purpose of the sex act. So it is against man’s nature (to act rationally) It perverts the purpose of the natural act, therefore immoral, and contrary to society’s well being.

 

[dmar198]

The other day I was posed with a question from a friend of mine, “Why is homosexual sex inherently wrong? And don’t just say ‘because God says so’.” How would I go about explaining to my friend why God forbid homosexual intercourse.

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Catholic Reasons Against “Same-Sex Marriage” - from “Considerations Regarding Proposals to give Legal Recognition to [Homosexual] Unions” by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

“[Homosexual] activities…do not represent a significant or positive contribution to the development of the human person in society.” – Considerations 8

“Sexual relations are…[supposed to] express and promote the mutual assistance of the sexes in marriage and [be] open to the transmission of new life.” “[H]omosexual acts…close the sexual act to the gift of life [and] do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.” – Considerations 7, CCC 2357

“[C]hildren who [are] placed in the care of [homosexual couples] would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. … [This] would actually mean doing violence to these children…[because it] place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development.” – Considerations 7

“[M]arried couples ensure the succession of generations and are therefore eminently within the public interest.” “[C]ivil law [therefore] grants them institutional recognition. Homosexual unions, on the other hand, do not need specific attention from the legal standpoint since they do not exercise this function for the common good.” – Considerations 9

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I would add that we can know from reason alone that sex is only for a man and a woman because that’s how we’re designed anatomically, that’s how our bonding hormones oxytocin and vassopressin work together, and it’s how our genetic code is reproduced in nature. A government that honors relationships that go against the natural law, is a government that has abandoned the principle that our rights come from “the laws of nature and nature’s God.” (The Declaration of Independence)

I would also add that “same-sex marriage” doesn’t promote equality but inequality. When you give rights to homosexual couples that you don’t give to single people, you treat single people unequally solely on the basis that they haven’t fallen in love yet. That isn’t fair. Marriage rights only make sense if marriage is for children. If we give special rights to people simply because they’ve fallen in love, that’s not equality, it’s inequality.

See also catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality

 

[padrepio_2012]

Actually, to correct the person above, homosexual sex is inherently wrong in and of itself. It is a corruption of the Natural order and Truth. There’s a reason a plug fits into a socket my friend. You can’t turn on a lightbulb by putting two sockets together. That’s how it is made to wrk. So that they fit each other. It’s common sense. The parts are meant to fit and there’s a reason two men can’t have sex. Sex is supposed to be unitive and procreative. Homosexual sex is neither of those because you can’t make babies (procreative) and you can’t be unitive (like a plug and a socket).

 

[liampk]

Sex has a few god given purposes.
It is for the procreation of children as others have said.
It is also a nurturing and comforting element of the relationship between
a man and a woman.
It is important to understand that everything in creation is a model reflection
of Gods order.
The animals, nature etc.

First of all, homosexual sex is not love.
Neither is heterosexual sex, in itself.

Secondly, the sexuality of a individual is actually a deep link to the
soul and it is one reason why people can be quite devastated by sexual
issues.

Homesexual sexual activity is sinful because it is lustful.
It is lustful because it has no purpose other than to satisfy personal desire.
Heterosexual activity is also sinful if it is lustful even though it may result in children.

The man who lusts after his wife is danger of destroying his love and respect for her so
he must enjoy his sexual union with her and she with him in the context of respect
and commitment and that commitment means the raising of children and the
supporting of each other both materially, emotionally and spriritually.

The Lord has shown us very clearly in our lives that we can be happy in this life
if we put Him and others first.
If you want to make absolutely sure your child has a miserable life then give the
child everything it wants when it wants.
Unless that child is lucky enough to learn a few real world lessons very quickly, that person is doomed to a life of frustration, conflict and dissatisfaction.
And this is exactly what happens in a relationship by following pure personal carnal desires.
It is very important to understand that heterosexual sex can and often is, every bit as sinful as homosexual sex.
It is about the practise of being totally ordered by ones personal desires and these desires like many in the human condition require restraint.
Things like anger for instance.

It is simple really, if you want to be unhappy …surrender to lust.

Another point is this, it is fashionable these days to allow the idea that homosexuality
is just another valid relationship status.
This is because evil in this world , especially in our times, does everything it can to destroy the God made trio.
Man, woman, child.
This trio reflects the trinity and also Christ and his church and I can assure you that Satan is working overtime in trying to reduce marriage to just another sociably adjustable arrangement resulting in human unhappiness and dissatisfaction and despair.

In a spiritual sense, we don’t worship idols, we believe and we worship God through Christ.
If we worship an idol we offend God because we have turned our backs on Him and exchanged Him for the idol.
When we slaughter large numbers of animals for pure profit, we offend God.
Because we offend the natural order that He has put in place for us.
When we destroy large parts of the natural world for profit, we offend God for the same reason.
We destroy God’s creation because it suits us.
Ultimately we have exchanged God’s will for ours.
We have said our purpose takes precedence over God’s.
We are doing our will, not Gods and that is sinful.
When we do this we offend God, even if we do not know it is wrong God is still offended.
So , homosexuality is the repudiation of the natural order if favour of our own wishes to follow our own lust…no matter how we rationalise it.
It is normal and good to have affection and love for people of both sexes and some people are very demonstrative while others are not.
But as I said, sex is not love.
Sex is an expression of love in a certain context and that context must be in accordance with God’s plan.
What is God’s plan….just look around.

 

[SMGS127]

Homesexual sexual activity is sinful because it is lustful.
It is lustful because it has no purpose other than to satisfy personal desire.

I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with this justification. Homosexual sexual activity can certainly be about more than satisfaction of personal desire. In fact, it can involve literally zero wish or desire for personal satisfaction (stone butches say hi!). It can be borne out of an intense love for someone and a [misguided] wish to do what is right and good for them. The act itself is intrinsically immoral, which means that it is immoral regardless of intentions. Telling gay people that they only have sex in order to satisfy their own indulgences is ridiculous and easily disproven.

Please, let’s stick to the theological facts and not devolve the thread into speculative nonsense about why heterosexuals think gay people have gay sex.

 

[GoldenRule712]

The other day I was posed with a question from a friend of mine, “Why is homosexual sex inherently wrong? And don’t just say ‘because God says so’.” How would I go about explaining to my friend why God forbid homosexual intercourse.

I always say that, because it is not done with the purpose of procreation, it is fornication. I always say that I would not cast the first stone and that the one who judges is not me.

Another issue is that gays are often more likely to get ill from the type of relations they engage in.

I always advise to read Joseph Sciambra’s blog on that topic.

 

[YosefYosep]

Why is it so devastatingly wrong, however, to commit homosexual acts? I take it that God didn’t just forbid such acts for no reason. What are the harmful consequences that made God deem such acts sinful?

 

[SMGS127]

Why is it so devastatingly wrong, however, to commit homosexual acts? I take it that God didn’t just forbid such acts for no reason. What are the harmful consequences that made God deem such acts sinful?

Sin is essentially defined as the disobedience to God. Mortal sin means rejection of God. The harmful consequence, if full knowledge and intent were present and the sin was unrepented unto death, would mean full rejection of God and full separation from God, in other words Hell. This is the same for any grave matter committed with full knowledge and intent though, such as contraception or premarital heterosexual sex.

 

[liampk]

Let me correct you.
My post is not a justification of anything.
It points out very simply that we should conform our will to that of Gods
and it expresses the very valid theological concept that
the natural order always reflects the will of God.
There is no such thing as morality unless it is seen
in terms of the will of God.
If a man does not believe in God and still tries to live what he sees as moral
life based on his sense of order and decency in society, he is , in part, in harmony
with that WILL whether or not he is aware of it.
Saying something is immorral does not of itself explain why it is to be avoided.
It is indeed very helpful to try and understand Gods rules and laws because by doing so we open our minds and souls to Gods wisdom.
In the world today we need more than ever to show why homosexual activity is wrong and why it is important to cultivate a wholesome understanding of relationships.

 

[SMGS127]

Let me correct you.
My post is not a justification of anything.
It points out very simply that we should conform our will to that of Gods
and it expresses the very valid theological concept that
the natural order always reflects the will of God.
There is no such thing as morality unless it is seen
in terms of the will of God.
If a man does not believe in God and still tries to live what he sees as moral
life based on his sense of order and decency in society, he is , in part, in harmony
with that WILL whether or not he is aware of it.
Saying something is immorral does not of itself explain why it is to be avoided.
It is indeed very helpful to try and understand Gods rules and laws because by doing so we open our minds and souls to Gods wisdom.
In the world today we need more than ever to show why homosexual activity is wrong and why it is important to cultivate a wholesome understanding of relationships.

I would agree with this post.

 

[GoldenRule712]

Sin is essentially defined as the disobedience to God. Mortal sin means rejection of God. The harmful consequence, if full knowledge and intent were present and the sin was unrepented unto death, would mean full rejection of God and full separation from God, in other words Hell. This is the same for any grave matter committed with full knowledge and intent though, such as contraception or premarital heterosexual sex.

But this is still the “because God says so” argument. I think the secular argument against homosexuality can be made differently.

I would point to the fact that the homosexual lifestyle, especially the male one, almost always ends in an escalation in less and less healthy behaviors, as they are unable to find the solace they would in a heterosexual relationship.

This lack of solace means that they are engaged in a selfish sexual behavior, where the only purpose of sex is the satisfaction of their own desires, which almost always, as with pornography, links to escalation and a sort of state of egotistic isolationism.

I always wondered why some gays would engage in certain terrible acts of physical abuse (no need to get into details) and this would explain that.

There is also the simple argument that a certain part of the anatomy was not created for the specific use that gays (and, yes, some heterosexuals) make of it and that it increases the rate of sexual disease transmission among them. The life expectancy of gays is much much lower than that of heterosexuals.

 

[SMGS127]

I would point to the fact that the homosexual lifestyle, especially the male one, almost always ends in an escalation in less and less healthy behaviors, as they are unable to find the solace they would in a heterosexual relationship.

Except that this is easily disproven by long-lasting gay male relationships where both participants are completely happy . Also, the phrase “homosexual lifestyle” is highly offensive. Please do not use it. Please use “actively gay” or “actively homosexual.”

This lack of solace means that they are engaged in a selfish sexual behavior, where the only purpose of sex is the satisfaction of their own desires, which almost always, as with pornography, links to escalation and a sort of state of egotistic isolationism.

Except that this is easily disproven by those who have no interest in sex, such as stone butch lesbians . Also, as someone who has had sex with someone of the same sex [before I was Catholic], it has nothing to do with “selfish sexual behavior” and is almost always aimed at keeping your partner happy, smiling, and at low stress levels. Sounds pretty selfless to me if we’re not allowed to bring up theological repercussions.

I always wondered why some gays would engage in certain terrible acts of physical abuse (no need to get into details) and this would explain that.

Because they don’t, at least not at higher rates than heterosexuals. So no, this wouldn’t explain anything.

There is also the simple argument that a certain part of the anatomy was not created for the specific use that gays (and, yes, some heterosexuals) make of it and that it increases the rate of sexual disease transmission among them. The life expectancy of gays is much much lower than that of heterosexuals.

Except lesbians have STD transmission far below that of straight people, so this argument would seem to endorse lesbian sex .

The truth of the matter is there are very few and far between arguments against gay sex (as opposed to, say, gay marriage) that do not involve theological discussions. Most secular arguments people use are specious, based on faulty data, based on stereotypes, or just plain outright false. Literally the only one remotely convincing is the argument that there was a natural design for genitalia, but even then this necessitates a belief in God, or else there would be no repercussions for going against said natural design.

There is a reason that actively gay people literally laugh in the face of religious arguments that try to enter the secular world. I always marveled, when I was actively lesbian, how all these religious heterosexuals knew just exactly how and why us gays were having sex or even dating each other. Apparently they knew us so well that we were completely unaware of any of the horrible, sinister statistics [that don’t actually exist] involving LGBT people that they knew everything about, despite us being intensely immersed in the community and largely only having LGBT friends.

It is an insult to the intelligence of the LGBT community to tell them you know better than them as to why they are doing what they are doing. It is an insult to the intelligence of the LGBT community to tell them you know better than them as to what goes on in their community. Focus on arguments that are actually true, not on arguments that, despite being false, win brownie points among other religious conservatives.

 

[liampk]

I agree , you can in fact make a number of secular arguments leaving
God right out of the picture.
But ultimately, for me, although the physical is one thing
this is a temporal result.The spritual result is worse.

I dont believe in descending to criticims of persons or groups
of people for the sake of it.
I would say this however.
Homosexual sex is sinful.
It is also offensive to God to defend it in any way just as it is
also offensive to God to defend certain types of sexual behaviour on the basis
that you are heterosexual and married.
It is also offensive to Jesus to treat any sinner with anything
less than Christ like compassion, for we are all sinners and we all need
the grace of God.

 

[YosefYosep]

Except that this is easily disproven by long-lasting gay male relationships where both participants are completely happy . Also, the phrase “homosexual lifestyle” is highly offensive. Please do not use it. Please use “actively gay” or “actively homosexual.”

Except that this is easily disproven by those who have no interest in sex, such as stone butch lesbians . Also, as someone who has had sex with someone of the same sex [before I was Catholic], it has nothing to do with “selfish sexual behavior” and is almost always aimed at keeping your partner happy, smiling, and at low stress levels. Sounds pretty selfless to me if we’re not allowed to bring up theological repercussions.

Because they don’t, at least not at higher rates than heterosexuals. So no, this wouldn’t explain anything.

Except lesbians have STD transmission far below that of straight people, so this argument would seem to endorse lesbian sex .

The truth of the matter is there are very few and far between arguments against gay sex (as opposed to, say, gay marriage) that do not involve theological discussions. Most secular arguments people use are specious, based on faulty data, based on stereotypes, or just plain outright false. Literally the only one remotely convincing is the argument that there was a natural design for genitalia, but even then this necessitates a belief in God, or else there would be no repercussions for going against said natural design.

There is a reason that actively gay people literally laugh in the face of religious arguments that try to enter the secular world. I always marveled, when I was actively lesbian, how all these religious heterosexuals knew just exactly how and why us gays were having sex or even dating each other. Apparently they knew us so well that we were completely unaware of any of the horrible, sinister statistics [that don’t actually exist] involving LGBT people that they knew everything about, despite us being intensely immersed in the community and largely only having LGBT friends.

It is an insult to the intelligence of the LGBT community to tell them you know better than them as to why they are doing what they are doing. It is an insult to the intelligence of the LGBT community to tell them you know better than them as to what goes on in their community. Focus on arguments that are actually true, not on arguments that, despite being false, win brownie points among other religious conservatives.

I’m curious, what made you abandon your gay lifestyle and join the Church? Was there something specific that made you believe that your homosexual acts were sinful? I’m still trying to get to the meat of the question, which is finding an argument that doesn’t just simply reflect the “because God says so” formula.