Homosexual Teachers in Catholic Schools

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Here’s another one:

What if the teacher masturbates or occasionally looks at porn? Should we make sure she/he never does this either before, God forbid, teaching our kids mathematics??

:rolleyes:
The problem is when a teacher goes and flaunts the life style. Having an open facebook page (I’m just assuming facebook) that doesn’t have any privacy settings is flaunting whether the teacher meant it or not these days. If the kids were of Junior High age or older that she was teaching she is lucky if none of them found her profile before a parent did. If a teacher gets caught watching porn at school in a public school they would probably be fired as well. I don’t know how else someone would get caught unless they were talking about it. The problem is not that someone is a sinner but rather when someone makes it public to kids. I’d bet if her page have no privacy settings there were definitely conversations on there that would not have been appropriate for kids to see.
 
I’d also add that it is not discriminatory for a Catholic school to want to hire Catholic teachers. As the the OP said every teacher is a Catechist. I think it would be rare to find a non Catholic who has the qualifications to be a Catechist and knows the Catholic faith. Would you want your math teacher teaching about math if he thought the principle of addition was a joke? Even if he went ahead and taught it correctly, if the students found out he didn’t believe in addition don’t you think they would have to cause to questions his teaching ability?
 
Private sin is not enforceable, but make no mistake about it, it affects a persons public attitude.

Now if that same teacher did not/could not take a Catholic stance and convey the teaching properly it is an issue. Children are deprived of the truth.
That’s what I’m saying - this should be the case regardless of what sin the teacher commits in the privacy of her home. Whether that be masturbation or homosexual activity.
 
The problem is when a teacher goes and flaunts the life style. Having an open facebook page (I’m just assuming facebook) that doesn’t have any privacy settings is flaunting whether the teacher meant it or not these days. If the kids were of Junior High age or older that she was teaching she is lucky if none of them found her profile before a parent did. If a teacher gets caught watching porn at school in a public school they would probably be fired as well. I don’t know how else someone would get caught unless they were talking about it. The problem is not that someone is a sinner but rather when someone makes it public to kids. I’d bet if her page have no privacy settings there were definitely conversations on there that would not have been appropriate for kids to see.
Right, and I mentioned this in a previous post:

Basically, as long as you can’t SEE the sin, that’s what matters?
 
The difference is that Catholic school has religion class. EVEN IF the religion teacher doesn’t live a perfect life style, she still has to follow the curriculum and teach the material in the book that was assigned to the class. She is not allowed to talk about her personal life or give her personal views on morals. She has to teach what is in the book, and follow a certain standard of morality when addressing the class.
There is a difference in quality of teaching depending on whether the person actually BELIEVES what they teach. If one believes that stealing is OK for an example and is told to teach that to children as BAD, they will brush over it.

They might not even know how to defend it. Look at some of the Catholics on this forum itself that struggle with understanding teaching on contraception. Can you see them teaching a class that it is wrong?

What happens when a kid goes to the teacher and asks about why marriage is strictly between man and a woman or why contraception is immoral? Do you think that teacher will do a good job explaining?

So no, private life matters. ESPECIALLY because teachers are suppossed to be ROLE MODELS. Kids look up to them.
So yes, I still fail to see how what the teacher does at her home, in her personal life, would make a difference - whether that be masturbation, porn use, ABC use, living with a boyfriend, or having a homosexual relationship.
I think the big mistake here is that you assume the married life is a strictly PERSONAL thing.

On the contrary, it is a public affair as well. People receive benefits for their marital status, relationship status etc don’t they?

So while ABC use and masturbation etc might not be publicly evident about an individual, their relationships are publicly visible. As such, that causes scandal.

Therefore the OP is justified in her concern about having a PRACTICING homosexual teacher in a Catholic School.

Something more I want to add, with Pornography, what happens if the teacher loves child porn? Do you think it ok to have him as a teacher because that is his personal life? What if it is a male teacher who loves violent pornography depicting rapes? Would you like to send your only daughter to study from him if you knew?

In this sense, I think even some elements of private life are also important in assessing a person as being suitable to teach. Thus, the need for thorough psychological evaluations of teachers before hiring them.

Ideally, this is why one should try and hire teachers who are very Catholic in their social standing. Someone who goes to mass often, leads a prayerful life, attends confession would be an ideal choice. This is not to say that this is fail safe. BUT one would be doing the best they can if they follow such a procedure.

When Catholic schools hire non-Catholics or liberal Catholics, they aren’t even doing their BEST to hire good role models. Our children deserve NOTHING LESS than the BEST.

God Bless 🙂
 
Good morning Debora,

I can see by your posts that you are quite passionate about homosexual teachers and not having a problem with that. I disagree but I won’t try and change your mind about that, however please let me offer something regarding sins we know about and sins we don’t know about.

You seem to see no difference between private sins and public sins, in other words sins everyone knows about and sins no one knows about. It’s not that sins we don’t see are unimportant, they are! But when a sin is clearly visible, especially to impressionable children there in another sin added called scandal. (someone else posted portions from the Catechism of the Catholic church so perhaps you can read there if you choose.)

It has to do about having respect for the souls of others, particularly when the person is in a position of authority. Even without bringing the Catholic church into it, we can see that the world is very similiar. Do some sports heroes drink or use drugs or have illicit relations? Probably many do, but look at how awful it is when young children who admire a sports hero learn that they got drunk and disorderly. So you see an individual who drank privately would be guilty of a serious sin of drunkenness, an individual who drank and went out in public and acted horribly for all to see would be guilty of the serious sin of drunkenness and also be guilty of the sin of scandal causing damage to the spirits and souls of young children.

You probably won’t agree with me but for what it’s worth: A teacher can be a very loving person and be sinful, we are all sinners. The problem, it seems, with this teacher is she is living visibly to others in serious mortal sin and has no problem with it. So yes, the visibility of her sin is very much important. Not sure if you will agree but thank you for letting me share my thoughts.
Bottom-line is that a practicing Catholic is striving to improve and live in conformance with truth.
 
Good morning Debora,

I can see by your posts that you are quite passionate about homosexual teachers and not having a problem with that. I disagree but I won’t try and change your mind about that, however please let me offer something regarding sins we know about and sins we don’t know about.

You seem to see no difference between private sins and public sins, in other words sins everyone knows about and sins no one knows about. It’s not that sins we don’t see are unimportant, they are! But when a sin is clearly visible, especially to impressionable children there in another sin added called scandal. (someone else posted portions from the Catechism of the Catholic church so perhaps you can read there if you choose.)

It has to do about having respect for the souls of others, particularly when the person is in a position of authority. Even without bringing the Catholic church into it, we can see that the world is very similiar. Do some sports heroes drink or use drugs or have illicit relations? Probably many do, but look at how awful it is when young children who admire a sports hero learn that they got drunk and disorderly. So you see an individual who drank privately would be guilty of a serious sin of drunkenness, an individual who drank and went out in public and acted horribly for all to see would be guilty of the serious sin of drunkenness and also be guilty of the sin of scandal causing damage to the spirits and souls of young children.

You probably won’t agree with me but for what it’s worth: A teacher can be a very loving person and be sinful, we are all sinners. The problem, it seems, with this teacher is she is living visibly to others in serious mortal sin and has no problem with it. So yes, the visibility of her sin is very much important. Not sure if you will agree but thank you for letting me share my thoughts.
I honestly have no passionate feelings at all towards homosexuals being teachers, or homosexuals in general. They are sinners, of course, just like all the rest of us. So I don’t really care or see them differently either way.

I don’t have any kids and I don’t have any friends that are homosexuals, so this issue really doesn’t apply to me at all.

More than anything I was just trying to make a point about homosexual activity, but I don’t think anyone quite caught that, and I guess it is partially my fault for not really explaining it.

Anyway, it just makes me mad when I see so much hostility towards the sin of homosexual activity, but hardly any whatsoever towards the sin of masturbation or porn use.

I’m not talking about for teaching jobs, just in general. People will come on here and talk about homosexual activity as though being the worst sin in the world. There will be multiple threads all over this forum with questions like “should I be friends with a homosexual?”, “should I go to a party where a homosexual will be present?”, “should I refuse my services to a homosexual individual?”

…Why not have the same sort of attitude towards people who commit OTHER mortal sins of the flesh? Specifically masturbation, which I’m sure a lot of people here do, despite being holy and religious. Is it because so many people here do it that it just kinda gets more dismissed? After all, they are BOTH equally offensive mortal sins of the flesh, in the eyes of God. If you’re someone who struggles with masturbation, maybe you should focus on that, rather than starting threads about how to boycott homosexuals as much as possible, considering your sin is just as grave as theirs.

🤷

I don’t care either way, as I struggle with neither of these sins. I just happen to notice the double standard, and it bugs me.
 
I honestly have no passionate feelings at all towards homosexuals being teachers, or homosexuals in general. They are sinners, of course, just like all the rest of us. So I don’t really care or see them differently either way.

I don’t have any kids and I don’t have any friends that are homosexuals, so this issue really doesn’t apply to me at all.

More than anything I was just trying to make a point about homosexual activity, but I don’t think anyone quite caught that, and I guess it is partially my fault for not really explaining it.

Anyway, it just makes me mad when I see so much hostility towards the sin of homosexual activity, but hardly any whatsoever towards the sin of masturbation or porn use.

I’m not talking about for teaching jobs, just in general. People will come on here and talk about homosexual activity as though being the worst sin in the world. There will be multiple threads all over this forum with questions like “should I be friends with a homosexual?”, “should I go to a party where a homosexual will be present?”, “should I refuse my services to a homosexual individual?”

…Why not have the same sort of attitude towards people who commit OTHER mortal sins of the flesh? Specifically masturbation, which I’m sure a lot of people here do, despite being holy and religious. Is it because so many people here do it that it just kinda gets more dismissed? After all, they are BOTH equally offensive mortal sins of the flesh, in the eyes of God. If you’re someone who struggles with masturbation, maybe you should focus on that, rather than starting threads about how to boycott homosexuals as much as possible, considering your sin is just as grave as theirs.

🤷

I don’t care either way, as I struggle with neither of these sins. I just happen to notice the double standard, and it bugs me.
I think you are missing the point. Most people do not go in the public square and flaunt or publicize their sins. Many "gays’ are now publicizing their acts and asking society to embrace their behavior. There is an agenda, whether you want to accept it or not. I don’t see a thief doing that.
 
Anyway, it just makes me mad when I see so much hostility towards the sin of homosexual activity, but hardly any whatsoever towards the sin of masturbation or porn use.
First, while you are right to get MAD about people not caring as much about Porn and Masturbation, it does not mean that the solution is to be lenient on Homosexuality too. Right? So in this sense, your goal is a bit questionable.

Secondly, Homosexuality and Porn are both bad things. But there is also a difference in the effect.

Homosexuality involves a more DIRECT attack on a basic social unit known as the family. It tries to reduce sexuality and family to an idea that it is merely an arrangement for pleasure and to make each other feel good. So in this sense, there is a much more urgent need to combat such a sin. If we fail, we are looking at the demise of the basic social unit, the family. So in this sense it is a very public SIN and one has to worry about scandal in dealing with such sins and those engaged in this sin.

Porn does partly contribute to building up a disordered view of sex. So the church clearly states it is against it. If a teacher is engaged in Porn production or works part time as a Porn star, the uprising would be just as similar. BUT, if the teacher is watching porn, no-one might even know about it. Same goes for masturbation.

Homosexual relationships OR ANY RELATIONSHIP on the other hand are public phenomenon. This goes back to what I said to you earlier that relationships are not merely a personal affair.

Thus, for the sake of preventing scandal, the practice of homosexuality is a bigger concern.
I’m not talking about for teaching jobs, just in general. People will come on here and talk about homosexual activity as though being the worst sin in the world.
It’s not the worst sin in the world. BUT, it is a very problematic sin for
  1. it attacks the basic unit of society, the family
  2. it is a public sin and thus causes scandal
There will be multiple threads all over this forum with questions like “should I be friends with a homosexual?”, “should I go to a party where a homosexual will be present?”, “should I refuse my services to a homosexual individual?”
And all of those questions are very much justified SINCE they are public affairs AND HAVE THE possibility of causing scandal.
…Why not have the same sort of attitude towards people who commit OTHER mortal sins of the flesh? Specifically masturbation, which I’m sure a lot of people here do, despite being holy and religious. Is it because so many people here do it that it just kinda gets more dismissed?
Not at all. The number of people doing is not the problem.

First, the people here, at least most of them, I think are trying to get rid of the sin in their lives and seeking help.

Second, it is a private sin that has no public dimension to it. If I talk to my very close friend Jessie down the road, its highly unlikely that the whole neighborhood knows he is a “masturbator”. So people rarely ask that kind of question. Same with watching porn.

On the other hand, if Jessie is a world famous porn star and I start paying her private visits late night at her home, then it can be very scandalous.

Same with Homosexuality. No one has a problem with associating with people who don’t engage in homosexual activity but have homosexual inclinations. On the other hand, one has a problem with associating with Jack and Joe down the road and treating them as a couple. That is scandalous.

So the difference here is that all the sins you mentioned are mostly things that fall in to the private aspect and has no problem of causing scandal. Porn has two dimensions to it. The producer and consumer. When looking at the consumer, it is a private aspect of sin. The producers have a public aspect of sin involved.

But homosexuality, as mentioned in this thread and those questions are dealing with a PUBLIC aspect.
After all, they are BOTH equally offensive mortal sins of the flesh, in the eyes of God. If you’re someone who struggles with masturbation, maybe you should focus on that, rather than starting threads about how to boycott homosexuals as much as possible, considering your sin is just as grave as theirs.
See, it is statements like this that really get people ticked off with you.

You don’t seem to understand why they ask the questions and why their questions are justified to begin with. Then instead of asking for clarification, you go and make a statement accusing them of hypocrisy. You don’t think that such actions on your part are problematic?
I don’t care either way, as I struggle with neither of these sins. I just happen to notice the double standard, and it bugs me.
It bugs you because you don’t understand that there is no double standard here. I hope the above explanations help your understanding.

God Bless 🙂
 
I disagree. I really don’t think people’s hostility here towards the sin of homosexual behavior has anything to do with whether or not it’s public.

I’m pretty sure that if a person didn’t flaunt their homosexuality, never talked about it openly, and only took part in this activity in the privacy of their rooms, they would still get a lot of grief by the type of people in this forum.

I stick with what I said in my previous post:
If you’re someone who struggles with masturbation, maybe you should focus on that, rather than starting threads about how to boycott homosexuals as much as possible, considering your sin is just as grave as theirs.
 
I wouldn’t worry that this teacher will influence anyone in the class to be gay. This teacher can still teach the Catholic faith without mentioning homosexuality. Since homosexuality is against the Catholic religion, she probably won’t speak of it. If the teacher did bring it up, I’m sure you would have an issue with that too. I believe they’re other things more important to worry about. This particular teacher may turn out to be a better teacher than another person. We could be concerned about all teachers teaching our children. When you think about it, we really don’t know anyone that well. A devout Catholic could be just as bad to teach class as anyone else. We hear all sorts of things happening, you don’t know who they really are other than what they seem to be.
 
I disagree. I really don’t think people’s hostility here towards the sin of homosexual behavior has anything to do with whether or not it’s public.
Well now you are judging what is in the hearts of people. I can only judge the validity of their questions from a logical and theological merit. What they hold in their hearts is up to them.

So from logical and theological perspective, they are doing NOTHING wrong.
I’m pretty sure that if a person didn’t flaunt their homosexuality, never talked about it openly, and only took part in this activity in the privacy of their rooms, they would still get a lot of grief by the type of people in this forum.
So? Their grief would be appropriate. Homosexuality is NOT something to be practiced privately or publicly.

I would be happy that they are feeling some grief as a result of their lifestyles and might try to correct it. Won’t you?
I stick with what I said in my previous post:
Of course, you are free to decide on what you believe in the end. I can only point out where you lack reason in your belief/position, why it is therefore false and why others need not pay attention to your position.

So to repeat again, your position

“If you’re someone who struggles with masturbation, maybe you should focus on that, rather than starting threads about how to boycott homosexuals as much as possible, considering your sin is just as grave as theirs.”

is simply not true. You are creating a false similarity between homosexuality and masturbation. One is a public sin that can cause scandal depending on how you deal with the sinner while the other is a private sin.

God Bless 🙂
 
I wouldn’t worry that this teacher will influence anyone in the class to be gay. This teacher can still teach the Catholic faith without mentioning homosexuality. Since homosexuality is against the Catholic religion, she probably won’t speak of it. If the teacher did bring it up, I’m sure you would have an issue with that too. I believe they’re other things more important to worry about. This particular teacher may turn out to be a better teacher than another person. We could be concerned about all teachers teaching our children. When you think about it, we really don’t know anyone that well. A devout Catholic could be just as bad to teach class as anyone else. We hear all sorts of things happening, you don’t know who they really are other than what they seem to be.
Precisely 👍
 
I disagree. I really don’t think people’s hostility here towards the sin of homosexual behavior has anything to do with whether or not it’s public.

I’m pretty sure that if a person didn’t flaunt their homosexuality, never talked about it openly, and only took part in this activity in the privacy of their rooms, they would still get a lot of grief by the type of people in this forum.

I stick with what I said in my previous post:
How would I know a chaste same sex attracted person?
 
I wouldn’t worry that this teacher will influence anyone in the class to be gay. This teacher can still teach the Catholic faith without mentioning homosexuality. Since homosexuality is against the Catholic religion, she probably won’t speak of it. If the teacher did bring it up, I’m sure you would have an issue with that too. I believe they’re other things more important to worry about. This particular teacher may turn out to be a better teacher than another person. We could be concerned about all teachers teaching our children. When you think about it, we really don’t know anyone that well. A devout Catholic could be just as bad to teach class as anyone else. We hear all sorts of things happening, you don’t know who they really are other than what they seem to be.
Why would a devout Catholic be just as bad? Do you mean there could be a case where a devout Catholic is bad? If so, then of course.

BUT, to say that having any teacher could lead to child abuse and therefore having a pedophile for a teacher is ok is not very good logic right?

So same here. One has to try and do their BEST. That involves taking out people who live lives that protest against church teaching openly. When it comes to relationships, there is no such thing as PRIVATE only.

God Bless 🙂
 
See this is why you should just send your kids to public school.

Then you start off with the assumption that “There will be sinners around my kids but they are probably good people. I have to teach my kids to stand strong against the sin but show love, respect and compassion to the sinner.”

Rather than the typical Catholic school parent attitude: :eek: “What do you mean you struggle with sin? You are a Catholic school teacher you can’t struggle with sin!”

Yes, yes yes, I understand their personal attitudes will influence how they teach. But it is the parents job to teach the children the faith not the teachers. There is nothing that stops a parent from sitting down with their child and explaining the teachings on sex and sexuality. That’s being a good parent. There is no bigger influence on a child than his mom and dad.

Hospital for sinners, remember? You’ll teach the kids a lot more by being compassionate because they’ll remember when they screw up they can still be welcomed in the Church.
 
What if there was a heterosexual teacher who lived with a man she wasn’t married to? Would THAT be a big enough problem that the school would either have to fire her or you would remove your kids?

Just curious.
Yes, in our diocese that would be grounds for dismissal. Same thing with someone who divorced and remarried without an annulmen.
 
See this is why you should just send your kids to public school.
I am not sure that logically follows either.

If there is a 50% chance that a kid will get abused in a Catholic School and 80% chance in a public School, it does not logically follow that one should send a child to a public school.

Rather, one should try to reduce the 50% chance in Catholic Schools. That’s the easier and feasible alternative.
Then you start off with the assumption that “There will be sinners around my kids but they are probably good people. I have to teach my kids to stand strong against the sin but show love, respect and compassion to the sinner.”
Unfortunately, kids are kids. They tend to go with peer pressure. Most parents are not even stay at home parents and don’t have any clue what they learn in school till its too late.

There is also a difference between compassion and condoning. If a child is sitting there while his class mate gets racially abused by another student and remains best buddies with the abuser, that is condoning the behavior. The correct thing to do then is to first get the other friend to understand what is wrong. If he refuses to give up his view and continues to abuse, even breaking up the friendship is good.

Similarly, thats the case with the teacher problem.
Rather than the typical Catholic school parent attitude: :eek: “What do you mean you struggle with sin? You are a Catholic school teacher you can’t struggle with sin!”
Actually the attitude is not “eeek, you are struggling with sin”. It is “eeek, you are saying that is OK for you”. Do you see the difference?

There is a difference between someone trying to become a better person and someone enjoying the sin.
Yes, yes yes, I understand their personal attitudes will influence how they teach. But it is the parents job to teach the children the faith not the teachers.
The parents can decide WHO THEY want to teach their children in their place as well. So as a result, the parents of Catholic Schools simply throw out anyone they don’t like teaching their children.
There is nothing that stops a parent from sitting down with their child and explaining the teachings on sex and sexuality. That’s being a good parent. There is no bigger influence on a child than his mom and dad.
Sure. At the same time, it also helps the child to have a supportive environment. You are making this instead an exclusively parent teaching issue. It is not. Environment plays a MAJOR role in formation of children. It is a Psychological FACT.
Hospital for sinners, remember? You’ll teach the kids a lot more by being compassionate because they’ll remember when they screw up they can still be welcomed in the Church.
The goal with children is to PREVENT them from screwing up. With somethings in life, like sexuality, once you go down an evil path, it is mighty hard to turn back.

Prevention is BETTER than CURE.

God Bless 🙂
 
Can you show me a law that pertains to this?

I have seen teacher contracts and they spell it out. Now I am not sure this one did.

If you sign a contract that you agree to practice Catholic values you need to be true to it. Otherwise, no sour grapes.
Most of the private schools around here have morals clauses - not just the Catholic ones. The Catholic school job postings say that you have to be living a lifestyle consistent with Catholic teaching.

For our Catholic schools, the K-5 teachers are virtually all Catholic. The schools can (and do) limit the hiring pool because those teachers have to teach Religion class. In the older grades, for subject teachers other than Religion, being Catholic is “preferred” but not required.
 
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