Homosexuality: A Disorder or Not?

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I mean, look at what they do! Duh. It’s not normal for a man to want to do nasty things with another man instead of a woman.
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Based on what? Your own sexual preferences and inclinations?
A lot of it is learned behavior.
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I imagine all sexual preference is learned behaviour.
 
An atheist could argue that talking to an “imaginary friend” like Jesus is a “disorder”.
 
ConstantLearner said:
I agree with Pope Francis - It’s just the way God made some people, so he must want them to be that way. No disorder, no mental illness, no choice. It’s simply the way God created some people.
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Yes and no. God wants this in His permissive will. God allows this for a greater good. But God ultimately doesn’t want people to suffer from SSA or ever to give in and act.
FiveLinden said:
Natural law is a philosophic position and cannot be demonstrated by science.
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Science is a philosophical position that can’t be demonstrated by science.
FiveLinden said:
Homosexuality is observed in a huge range of living things and most especially in our closest living relatives, bonobos and chimps.
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Some of these monkey also throw excrement. I guess that is natural and we should all do that when upset too? And are the monkeys dressing up in leather and having parades celebrating their proclivities?
ratio1 said:
Do you call the following disorders?

Overweight
Gray hair
Myopia
Vegetarianism

I’m happy to call homosexuality a disorder. But I use it in such a way that the conditions I mentioned above are also disorders. None of these conditions are healthy for the human race.
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Gray hair isn’t a disorder. It is the natural aging process.
Regular_Atheist said:
I imagine all sexual preference is learned behaviour.
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It can’t be. Even for an atheist there had to be a first human. The first human would not have done all the things we do today. We know the first human most certainly wasn’t homosexual since we, his children, exist. A lot of things are in some sense learned. But any individual man having reason can learn or invent anything on his own too.
 
exnihilo said:
Yes and no. God wants this in His permissive will. God allows this for a greater good. But God ultimately doesn’t want people to suffer from SSA or ever to give in and act.

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FiveLinden:
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If he didn’t intend for them to live as homosexuals, he would not have created them that way.

Does God intend for an autistic child to live as an autistic child or not? What about a child with Down’s syndrome?

Cpu;d you “unlearn” your attraction to the opposite sex? I don’t think so. I could not. Homosexuality is not “learned.” It is the way God created certain persons.
 
exnihilo said:
Gray hair isn’t a disorder. It is the natural aging process.
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Natural aging process is a disorder. Unless you want to call heart failure and renal failure and atherosclerosis causing heart attack all just a natural aging process and not disorders.

Hair by nature have colour. Gray hair means there is a disorder in the pigmentation.

Aging process is a disorder of telomeres, one could argue.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
If he didn’t intend for them to live as homosexuals, he would not have created them that way.
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That doesn’t make sense. Maybe I have an urge to murder or commit adultery. That doesn’t mean God intends me to live as a murderer or adulterer.
ratio1 said:
Natural aging process is a disorder. Unless you want to call heart failure and renal failure and atherosclerosis causing heart attack all just a natural aging process and not disorders.
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Yes, they are all the natural aging process.
 
Well if you are prepared to call heart attack not a disorder but homosexuality a disorder I don’t know what to say.

I suppose cancer is also not a disorder as it is also part of a natural aging process.

I guess everyone ages so one day you will undergo these non-disorders probably.
 
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A person can argue anything they please. Not all arguments have substance.
For instance, if I argued that the sun revolves around the earth, you could easily say my argument is self evidently false.

If I argued that KevinK created himself, that would be a merit-less argument.
If I argued that the universe just happened of it’s own volition, that would be a merit-less argument.

Likewise, if someone argues that homosexual acts are ordered to the same ends as heterosexual acts, the argument is self evidently without merit. Homosexuality is not ordered to the same ends.

A person can make any assertion they wish. But assertions don’t make reality.
 
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It is difficult to understand the 1973 position of the APA without knowing the context. That context includes the world-wide context of other researchers or experts on the subject.

The Medical Profession removed sado-masochism from the list of disorders, not because it isn’t a problem, but because they didn’t know enough about sadomasochistic personality disorder. It’s still a personality disorder.

1973 wasn’t a special year or anything. I had a graduate school level psych class in 1970 that LISTED homosexuality as a variant, if not a disorder, and it singled out Jewish and Christian tradition as vilifying people with such orientation. It still ended up in the book of “the abnormal person and their world.”
 
ratio1 said:
Natural aging process is a disorder. Unless you want to call heart failure and renal failure and atherosclerosis causing heart attack all just a natural aging process and not disorders.
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But all of those things are not part of the natural aging process. Many are due to the pollution in the atmosphere and the disordered way people eat today. God did not create humans to stuff themselves with Twinkies and Coke and huge steaks, etc. Those are the things that lead to atherosclerosis, premature aging, etc.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
I imagine all sexual preference is learned behaviour.
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Just wow. This is complete ignorance of human nature.

Think about your assertion:
given your thinking, a gay person can relearn his/her sexual preference.

Do you really mean to say this?
 
exnihilo said:
That doesn’t make sense. Maybe I have an urge to murder or commit adultery. That doesn’t mean God intends me to live as a murderer or adulterer.

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ratio1:
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No comparison. Murder deprives someone of life. Homosexuality does not harm others unless the homosexual person is also a murderer, and even then, it would be the murder, not the sexual preference, that was the problem.
 
ConstantLearner said:
If he didn’t intend for them to live as homosexuals, he would not have created them that way.
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We are fallen creatures ConstantLearner. People are not born perfect and it is wrong to say that people should follow their desires simply because they were born that way. Jesus Christ told us to deny ourselves, to crucify the desires of the flesh. He told us to pick up our crosses. The cross of same sex attraction is no different than other crosses
 
True, homosexuality is inherently disordered sexuality. I don’t think, however it can, itself, be classified as a Disorder psychiatrically or psychologically. It seems to be a symptom of deeper seated psychological issues. The article below really put homosexuality in the Catholic mindset into a psychological perspective for me.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1179/002436311803888302
 
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