HomoSexuality a Mental Disorder

[GreenJeans]

Right, how could you. But we do know, if the calling is bad it is not from God. So therefore, a call to move away from perfection is not of God.

What standard do you employ to determine if the calling is bad? What standard do you employ to determine perfection?

 

[GreenJeans]

Natural law is written into our hearts by God.

[1954](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1954.htm’) Man participates in the wisdom and goodness of the Creator who gives him mastery over his acts and the ability to govern himself with a view to the true and the good. The natural law expresses the original moral sense which enables man to discern by reason the good and the evil, the truth and the lie:

The natural law is written and engraved in the soul of each and every man, because it is human reason ordaining him to do good and forbidding him to sin . . . But this command of human reason would not have the force of law if it were not the voice and interpreter of a higher reason to which our spirit and our freedom must be submitted.

OK. How does one determine they are correctly reading what is written and engraved in the soul?

 

[buffalo]

OK. How does one determine they are correctly reading what is written and engraved in the soul?

[1960](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1960.htm’) The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known "by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error."12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.

 

[GreenJeans]

[1960](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1960.htm’) The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known "by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error."12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.

OK. That’s process. How do you know it worked to provide a correct discernment of NL? Some guy comes along and says, “Hey,folks, XYZ is Natural Law, and I have used method #1960.” How do we determine if his discernment of NL is correct?

 

[buffalo]

OK. That’s process. How do you know it worked to provide a correct discernment of NL? Some guy comes along and says, “Hey,folks, XYZ is Natural Law, and I have used method #1960.” How do we determine if his discernment of NL is correct?

[1958](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1958.htm’) The natural law is *immutable *and permanent throughout the variations of history;10 it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies:

Theft is surely punished by your law, O Lord, and by the law that is written in the human heart, the law that iniquity itself does not efface.11

 

[goofyjim]

I reiterate, there is no Christian requirement to overcome same sex attraction. God is not going to stop us at the pearly gates and ask us which gender we found more attractive in life and then shuffle us off to hell if we say the same. Therefore, unless you have tons of money and alot of ambition don’t bother going to therapy to change it. Just use prayer and the sacraments to stay chaste.

 

[Mack_II]

Setter, I know the Church’s teachings. Very well, in fact. I don’t need you to remind me of them. I’ve tried to accept them, and I find them illogical. I do try to change this, I spend a lot of time trying to allow Catholic materials to convince me, and so far no luck. I do follow them, though, as far as I can(it’s rather hard to not have my breath taken away by the beautiful girl who walks past me when i’m shopping, just like it’s hard to not forget everything that I was doing when I see an attractive male). But I really don’t want to get too into this.

In a nutshell, it appears you are not gay or even bisexual. Having your breath knocked away by beauty (man, woman, horse, sunset, art, someone other than your spouse, the teachings of the Church) is not sexual orientation. I’ve done all the above and I’m straight – actually, my sexual orientation is just for the woman I married. If you are engaged to be married and you still are fantasizing about having an intimate relationships with people other than your intended, yes, you may have a problem, but if all you are experiencing is having your breath knocked away by the sight of beauty, don’t fret about it. Beauty has a way of doing that.

 

[Mack_II]

Dear Friends,
I think ‘Mental Disorder’ is possibly an incorrect term.
What evidence there is, indicates that the brain of the afflicted person is in no way damaged, but the ‘operating system’ may be incorrectly initialised,
Most of us have seen the goslings that were ‘imprinted’ on their handlers. That is, the first moving item that gosl;ing see, upon hatching, is defined as ‘mother’. In most cases in nature, this is correct, but on farms, and in other artificial environments, this can be untrue. This is a kind of ‘incorrect’ ‘initialisation’.
Now SSA ‘initialisation error’ can be caused by in-utero chemical accidents, by genetic errors, or by early experience, as in the case of the goslings.
What we do know, is that ‘incorrect initialisation’ seems to be irreversible.
Now, do you classify goslings imprinted on their handlers to be ‘mentally ill’? Or do you classify your dog, who/which treats you as ‘senior wolf’ as mentally ill?.
They both have disordered psyches, that is true.
And in their NATURAL environment, that disorder might be fatal, but in the artificial environment, in which they will spend the rest of their lives, unless betrayed by their handlers, the disorder is for the most part beneficial.
How the above is applicable to SSA affliction is another story.

What you are calling initialization has been called imprinting and all the evidence seems to indicate that something similar to imprinting is important factor in setting sexual orientation of both humans and animals. At the University of Illinois Ag School, they used to show a film of various animals that were sexually imprinted on the wrong species, mostly humans. This problem is quite common and sometimes dangerous. Humans for their part have been sexually imprinted on clothing, animals, even to sounds such as the buzzing of insects and have had problems redirecting their attraction to other humans.

The problem that we now face if something similar to imprinting turns out to be the major factor in human sexual orientation is that as homosexual attraction becomes more acceptable, a greater percentage of people will find themselves in the proverbial closet until, eventually, people with some homosexual orientation become a majority. This is what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah, according to the Bible, and also in ancient Sparta.

 

[freesoulhope]

I observe there are various standards by which poeple label various actions right or wrong.

Thats does not answer my qeustion. Let me make the qeustion a bit simpler

Do you believe in right and wrong; that something is wrong by it nature of being objectively wrong, rather then by somebodys subjective opinon?

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t doubt you have read God doesn’t want us to sleep with people of the same sex. But, who wrote what you read? Man or God?

God’s words inspiring men to write them down for others to read. If we dismiss this piece of the Bible, then I suppose we should dismiss all of the Bible…for it was all inspired by God’s words…but one would have to believe that.

 

[ALBACIENTIS]

My answer to your doubts is that we inherit Original Sin. That is the original disorder. Some people are heterosexual but incapable of any tenderness, other are sensitive but gay. Nobody is perfect. Sin is sin, but it needs to be clarified. The answer for all problems is to try to follow Christ through Sacrements and Prayer. We should try to BECOME perfect, it is a work, and GRACE helps us. That is my answer. Other scandalized references of those who think themselves perfect just because they condemn imperfection, are worthless. There are people whose only ’ virtue ’ is to be heterosexual. You have that bisexual tendency, dear friend, which you must try to avoid through prayers and Sacrements. You with YOUR salvation, me with MY CASE and my salvation. Do not hear the voice of the pharisees who just worship LAW for its own sake. Law without Love is so unhealthy as Love without Law. Do not worry, pray.
God bless you

I’m still trying to find anything in these links(or any let’s change people’s orientation groups) that would apply to me. My upbringing would probably be classified “ideallic” by some Catholics. But, i’m not full out lesbian, I’m bisexual, and I’m getting married to a man, and I follow Church teachings. So I guess it doesn’t matter. Then there’s also the fact that I’ve found peace with who I am.

 

[Abira]

Oops…that might be me. LOL
Can you explain?

Whatevergirl,

Yeah, you can PM me if you like about it… but to put it simply here:

when the Catechism says that it is a disorder, they are saying that homosexuality is not ordered in the proper way - their choices are disordered against the course that is naturally intended eg. their path will be disorderd and not lead to children, marriage etc etc… it is against natural law - but the person is not ‘ill’ in the medical sense of the word, only in the spiritual sense. This is why it encourages christians to look after them and treat them with respect, as they will need more help on their journey.

when the medical world says something is a disorder they are saying that the disorder is stopping the person functioning in their lives.

They may be unhappy, depressed (and to a few homosexuals this can be true), they may be incapable of relationships, incapable of holding down a job, working, thinking clearly, taking care of themselves etc etc…

To the church, it is referring only to their spiritual choices and inclinations - disordered choices and instincts

the medical world agrees that homosexuals can hold down jobs, be successful, be happy, have relationships, have friendships and interpersonal relations, look after themselves physically etc etc…this is why it is not regarded as a mental disorder by either the American or British psychiatric practice.

people can ask for coucilling to help with their choices but it must be that person that asks, a doctor would never diagnose someone with homosexuality as needing to be cured.

does that help?

S

 

[whatevergirl]

Whatevergirl,

Yeah, you can PM me if you like about it… but to put it simply here:

when the Catechism says that it is a disorder, they are saying that homosexuality is not ordered in the proper way - their choices are disordered against the course that is naturally intended eg. their path will be disorderd and not lead to children, marriage etc etc… it is against natural law - but the person is not ‘ill’ in the medical sense of the word, only in the spiritual sense. This is why it encourages christians to look after them and treat them with respect, as they will need more help on their journey.

when the medical world says something is a disorder they are saying that the disorder is stopping the person functioning in their lives.

They may be unhappy, depressed (and to a few homosexuals this can be true), they may be incapable of relationships, incapable of holding down a job, working, thinking clearly, taking care of themselves etc etc…

To the church, it is referring only to their spiritual choices and inclinations - disordered choices and instincts

the medical world agrees that homosexuals can hold down jobs, be successful, be happy, have relationships, have friendships and interpersonal relations, look after themselves physically etc etc…this is why it is not regarded as a mental disorder by either the American or British psychiatric practice.

people can ask for coucilling to help with their choices but it must be that person that asks, a doctor would never diagnose someone with homosexuality as needing to be cured.
does that help?

S

the bolded statement clears it up 100%…thanks so much!!!

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Sure. Consider the recent shooting at Virginia Tech. The shooter is said to have been suffering from a mental disorder. While his psychological condition was obviously not a sin, the murders which may have been a manifestation of his illness certainly were.

Actually Friend, If indeed, the actions of this afflicted person were due to a malfunction of his mind, caused by a mental disorder, then though the murders were a sin, they wrre not culpable.
The church has similar arguments concerning invincible ignorance.

 

[blessedtoo]

Actually Friend, If indeed, the actions of this afflicted person were due to a malfunction of his mind, caused by a mental disorder, then though the murders were a sin, they wrre not culpable.
The church has similar arguments concerning invincible ignorance.

Only partly correct. Sin is sin, objectively. His condition may minimize culpability, but the murders are still a sin.

 

[cor]

The Church teaches that not only homosexual choices, but also that the inclination itself is disordered. The inclination is contrary to man’s nature – his nature as a spiritual and physical being. CCC:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2358.htm

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Only partly correct. Sin is sin, objectively. His condition may minimize culpability, but the murders are still a sin.

Agreed,
The degree of culpability depends of course on the degree of malfunction of the mind, and whether that malfunction is to any degree self inflicted, such as by substance abuse.
If though, the cause of the malfunction is totally innocent, such as accidental injury, and is completely responsible for the sin, then of course, the sin, though still standing as sin, is not culpable.
We have in English law, the concept of:
‘Not guilty, by reason of insanity’.

 

[Crumpy]

If I am not mistaken, The Catholic Church holds that Homosexuality is a mental disorder. Has there been any scientific studies to prove this?

We get our science information from the TV and other sources these days.

There was a documentary on infant development on the National Geographic Channel during the week of Sept 18, 2007. It seemed to show that a lot of connections in the brain are not established, as such, but are either kept or abandoned by the body. It depends on whether those connections are “used.”

The producers used that information and a study that was done about the value of teaching problem solving skills to infants, from age 6 weeks to about (I didn’t catch it) months. They seem to make the point that children who are given a lot of structured training, do better on problem solving starting at 15 months and beyond, and they never lose that curiosity about things and the desire to master them.

Elsewhere, a science journal reported research on male human sweat. People seem to develop one of three distinct reactions to it. The male hormone androstenone in the sweat can give some people a pleasant, vanilla-type fragrance; others perceive it as foul, almost smelling like urine; yet others perceive no odor at all.
These responses are attributed to “normal” variations in the gene that is responsible for detecting odors.

The “silver bullet” studies that show that homosexuality may be a physiological result of a person’s development history, or whether there are gene variants producing it – have not been done. But, these studies cited above show that the “jury” is still out on a scientific explanation for homosexual behavior. But, there are some very, very interesting results coming out.

What I’ve heard is that homosexuals really don’t like having that orientation. They would be a large market for some future drug therapy that might give them some hope.

The former bishop in our diocese passed away from a “rare” form of cancer, which turned off the production of red blood cells. Just 11 months later, a drug was announced that treats that very condition, and puts it into permanent remission. That is the sort of hope that people with all kinds of cancers and other genetic conditions are hoping for, Lord have mercy.

Research just doesn’t always go in a straight line. There are chance discoveries all the time, and the key to homosexual behavior (even observed in animals) may be uncovered in such a fashion.

 

[Yerusalyim]

When the Church addresses Homosexuality as disordered it in no way carries a psychological meaning to the word. Rather, it means it is OUT OF THE ORDINARY or OUT OF THE ORDER God created. God’s intent was for males to be with females and vice versa…anything contrary to that order is…disordered. That does not make the INCLINATION itself a sin…as the Church teaches that homosexuals do not CHOOSE their inclinations…it’s a matter of what you DO about it.

 

[goofyjim]

It is not a mental disorder. It is a naturally occuring variant in humanity just like the rest of nature.