HomoSexuality a Mental Disorder

[NewUlm1976_2000]

When the Church addresses Homosexuality as disordered it in no way carries a psychological meaning to the word. Rather, it means it is OUT OF THE ORDINARY or OUT OF THE ORDER God created. God’s intent was for males to be with females and vice versa…anything contrary to that order is…disordered. That does not make the INCLINATION itself a sin…as the Church teaches that homosexuals do not CHOOSE their inclinations…it’s a matter of what you DO about it.

We don’t know that for sure. If a small percentage occurs naturally in the gene pool, than that can be argued that it is in the order of what God created.

 

[cue]

It is not a mental disorder. It is a naturally occuring variant in humanity just like the rest of nature.

You are right, but we have to careful how we use ‘nature’ and ‘natural.’ Homosexuality is disordered, that is, contrary to nature, and particularly our nature. However, it does occur ‘naturally’ in the sense that it occurs spontaneously.

 

[Mirdath]

particularly our nature.

And just who is ‘we’, kemosabe? Obviously it is NOT all humankind, so don’t start with that.

Seems to me that mental disorders are about individual functionality, which yeah, is a very ‘soft’ area to work with, yet a vital one, and must be the primary concern medically, except in such rare cases that may indicate clear and present danger (ie violence and suchlike). Homosexuality is not such a condition. The fine points of anyone’s sexuality, gay, straight, or whatever, are indeed a social matter on one level, but even more so individual, and in that sense a matter of personal conscience and thence a matter of the privacy of medical, legal and clerical advisors should that individual seek their counsel.

Some of us feel just fine in our sexuality, het and homo, male and female, without need for such counsel, regardless of orientation, and that’s just fine too.

But really, if all your sexual impulses are ‘orderly’ perhaps you might ask the doctor how ‘normal’ that is, next time you have a moment. I worry about the devout Catholics here who put themselves and their mates through ridiculous, inhuman deprival that their Church asks not, out of scrupulosity or denial of other problems.

I’m glad we’re pretty ‘disorderly’ in the sack – And I’d go so far as to say ‘riotous’! Wheee!!!

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

You are right, but we have to careful how we use ‘nature’ and ‘natural.’ Homosexuality is disordered, that is, contrary to nature, and particularly our nature. However, it does occur ‘naturally’ in the sense that it occurs spontaneously.

It is no more contrary to nature than the occasional landing of a flipped coin in a muddy field upon its edge, and so staying.
It is a fairly uncommon condition which seems to arise from a ‘quasi-stable’ indeterminate state becoming prematurely stable.
It is though a ‘wrong’ state in the context of purpose, as is the flipped coin, obstinately settled upon its edge in the mud.
That is, the intended choice was from a set of two binary conditions, and the choice was not made, thus both choices remain active.

This is not a physical disorder, but an ‘incorrect’ initialization.
The ‘computer’ is not broken, neither is it defective, it has just, for some obscure reason, failed to initialize ‘correctly’.
Unfortuneately, re-initialization requires, as you know from bitter experience with your Wintel, the complete reloading of all software, (memories), hence in human terms, a kind of euthanasia.

It is wrong to think of the condition as diseased, for that implies physical damage to some actual structure.
It is wrong to percieve it as un-natural, for it is not.
It is an unusual varient in a continuous spectrum, lying so close to the transition point, that criteria for the proper selection were not met.

 

[Yerusalyim]

We don’t know that for sure. If a small percentage occurs naturally in the gene pool, than that can be argued that it is in the order of what God created.

New Ulm,

Actually, God HAS revealed to us what the natural order of his creation is…a man shall cleave to his wife and the two become one flesh…it is there for disordered in that it falls outside the order established by God.

So, while I reject the idea that homosexual inclination is in any way a choice, I also reject that it’s NATURAL. We don’t know the causes of homosexuality, but it doesn’t seem to be genetic. I actually reject the genetic claim because in evolutionary terms, homosexuality is a dead end. I think it’s linked both in nurture and chemical pathways in the brain. I beleive some people can be born with a predisposition to have homosexual inclinations but that it’s environment combined with the predisposition that “causes” one to be homosexual…that’s just my humble AMATEUR opinion.

 

[Valke2]

New Ulm,

Actually, God HAS revealed to us what the natural order of his creation is…a man shall cleave to his wife and the two become one flesh…it is there for disordered in that it falls outside the order established by God.

So, while I reject the idea that homosexual inclination is in any way a choice, I also reject that it’s NATURAL. We don’t know the causes of homosexuality, but it doesn’t seem to be genetic. I actually reject the genetic claim because in evolutionary terms, homosexuality is a dead end. I think it’s linked both in nurture and chemical pathways in the brain. I beleive some people can be born with a predisposition to have homosexual inclinations but that it’s environment combined with the predisposition that “causes” one to be homosexual…that’s just my humble AMATEUR opinion.

Why are not the dietary laws in the Torah also not part of our natural order? God said what we were to eat.

 

[Yerusalyim]

The dietary laws found in the Hebrew Scriptures were given by God to the Jewish people and are still in effect for the Jews people. We as gentiles are free of those dietary restrictions.

God told ALL HUMANITY to be fruitful and multiply…something homosexuals are physically incapable of doing if they follow the inclination sexually. Thus, the statement CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE AND BECOME ONE FLESH is a general statement of the human condition…be fruitful and multiply a directive to all humans, but not eating pork…only for the Jews…in the opinion of this amateur.

 

[goofyjim]

It seems to me we are denying medical evidence that in some there may be an extra chromosome which makes one homosexual. Everybody is afraid of accepting that because it might prove it is part of some people’s nature to be so inclined. Given enough time everyone will accept scientific findings and stop treating homosexuals as second class citizens. They have been last and in the background for a long time. Our Good Lord said the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

 

[goofyjim]

The dietary laws found in the Hebrew Scriptures were given by God to the Jewish people and are still in effect for the Jews people. We as gentiles are free of those dietary restrictions.

God told ALL HUMANITY to be fruitful and multiply…something homosexuals are physically incapable of doing if they follow the inclination sexually. Thus, the statement CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE AND BECOME ONE FLESH is a general statement of the human condition…be fruitful and multiply a directive to all humans, but not eating pork…only for the Jews…in the opinion of this amateur.

The same could be said of being fruitful and multiplying. The Jews at that time saw it as their destiny to conquer the world for God. They only way they could do that is become more populous than the rest of their neighbors. This just does not apply today. There are enough heterosexual couples reproducing to keep thehuman race going that a miniscule poulation of even practicing homosexuals won’t affect that.

 

[cue]

It is wrong to percieve it as un-natural, for it is not.

What do you mean by ‘natural?’ I use it to mean that something flows from and is consistent with our nature (human nature). We all have a natural desire to continue the existence of the human race. Homosexuality cannot effect reproduction thus those acts are unnatural–that is–homosexual acts require using gifts (sexuality, reproductive system) against what they exist for (reproduction), against their nature.

 

[goofyjim]

What do mean by ‘natural?’ I use it to mean that something flows from and is consistent with our nature (human nature). We all have a natural desire to continue that existence of the human race. Homosexuality cannot effect reproduction thus those acts are unnatural–that is–homosexual acts require using gifts (sexuality, reproductive system) against what they exist for (reproduction), against their nature.

Then I guess staying single is also unnatural. You’ll have a hard time arguing that one though.

 

[buffalo]

We get our science information from the TV and other sources these days.

There was a documentary on infant development on the National Geographic Channel during the week of Sept 18, 2007. It seemed to show that a lot of connections in the brain are not established, as such, but are either kept or abandoned by the body. It depends on whether those connections are “used.”

The producers used that information and a study that was done about the value of teaching problem solving skills to infants, from age 6 weeks to about (I didn’t catch it) months. They seem to make the point that children who are given a lot of structured training, do better on problem solving starting at 15 months and beyond, and they never lose that curiosity about things and the desire to master them.

Elsewhere, a science journal reported research on male human sweat. People seem to develop one of three distinct reactions to it. The male hormone androstenone in the sweat can give some people a pleasant, vanilla-type fragrance; others perceive it as foul, almost smelling like urine; yet others perceive no odor at all.
These responses are attributed to “normal” variations in the gene that is responsible for detecting odors.

The “silver bullet” studies that show that homosexuality may be a physiological result of a person’s development history, or whether there are gene variants producing it – have not been done. But, these studies cited above show that the “jury” is still out on a scientific explanation for homosexual behavior. But, there are some very, very interesting results coming out.

What I’ve heard is that homosexuals really don’t like having that orientation. They would be a large market for some future drug therapy that might give them some hope.

The former bishop in our diocese passed away from a “rare” form of cancer, which turned off the production of red blood cells. Just 11 months later, a drug was announced that treats that very condition, and puts it into permanent remission. That is the sort of hope that people with all kinds of cancers and other genetic conditions are hoping for, Lord have mercy.

Research just doesn’t always go in a straight line. There are chance discoveries all the time, and the key to homosexual behavior (even observed in animals) may be uncovered in such a fashion.

A father in the home is the best defense against feminization. He teaches the boy how to be a man. These connections are then utilized and strengthened.

 

[buffalo]

It is not a mental disorder. It is a naturally occuring variant in humanity just like the rest of nature.

Can you prove it is innate?

 

[buffalo]

It seems to me we are denying medical evidence that in some there may be an extra chromosome which makes one homosexual. Everybody is afraid of accepting that because it might prove it is part of some people’s nature to be so inclined. Given enough time everyone will accept scientific findings and stop treating homosexuals as second class citizens. They have been last and in the background for a long time. Our Good Lord said the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

Not exactly. If it were to be found it was biological the race for the cure would be on.

 

[goofyjim]

Not exactly. If it were to be found it was biological the race for the cure would be on.

And often the after effects of such a cure are worse off than what we started with. Why do we need to cure this? If I find guys attractive what is it to anyone else?

 

[buffalo]

And often the after effects of such a cure are worse off than what we started with. Why do we need to cure this? If I find guys attractive what is it to anyone else?

My bet would be if there was a drug to cure it most homosexuals would rush to buy it. No matter the argued justification it is deviant.

 

[goofyjim]

My bet would be if there was a drug to cure it most homosexuals would rush to buy it. No matter the argued justification it is deviant.

It may well be a deviation but it is far from a mental disorder.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

What do you mean by ‘natural?’ I use it to mean that something flows from and is consistent with our nature (human nature). We all have a natural desire to continue the existence of the human race. Homosexuality cannot effect reproduction thus those acts are unnatural–that is–homosexual acts require using gifts (sexuality, reproductive system) against what they exist for (reproduction), against their nature.

What is natural is what occurs in nature.
That which happens as a result of something’s state or structure.
Something unsophisticated or contrived.
You clearly use natural in an un-natural way.
You look at creation, try to deduce its purpose, then if you find something which does not comply with that purpose, you consider it un-natural.
It is a great hubris to imagine that we can deduce the purpose of creation.
It is great hubris to imagine that we can understand the intricacies and methods the Creator set in place to drive that purpose.
There are many seemingly illogical intricacies in this creation, which the short-sighted see as evil, but their removal would have a deleterious effect on the creation.
Consider bugs, germs, viruses, poisons. They all seem evil, but they all serve a purpose in balancing the creation.
If the Creator had intended that two sexualities only were to be possible, that would be easy to effect.
The XX, XY pairing could have coded directly for sexuality, but it doesn’t. It only sets a proclivity: makes a probability. A sort of ‘free will’ on a micro scale if you like.
That the Creator set things thus, shows that this must have been the intention.
Who knows, it could be a shiboleth to test us as to how we will react to what is different, and it seems that to date, many of us fail the test.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

A father in the home is the best defense against feminization. He teaches the boy how to be a man. These connections are then utilized and strengthened.

Yes, a tossed penny will only stay on its edge, falling so, if the playing field is muddy.

 

[Valke2]

The dietary laws found in the Hebrew Scriptures were given by God to the Jewish people and are still in effect for the Jews people. We as gentiles are free of those dietary restrictions.

God told ALL HUMANITY to be fruitful and multiply…something homosexuals are physically incapable of doing if they follow the inclination sexually. Thus, the statement CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE AND BECOME ONE FLESH is a general statement of the human condition…be fruitful and multiply a directive to all humans, but not eating pork…only for the Jews…in the opinion of this amateur.

If you eat meat and cheese you are behaving unnaturally. The dietary laws were not given to only Jews. Show me where in the Torah it says that.