Homosexuality: A Mental Disorder?

[brianwalden]

The Church(us) does treat homosexuals differenetly. People on these forums have said awful things about this group of people. They aren’t represented equally in the Church. In some churches, they aren’t even allowed to be part of the church.

How are homosexuals not represented equally? Do you mean the Church doesn’t pander to them and declare that homosexual acts aren’t sinful? 90% of Catholics think contraception isn’t sinful, and the Church is never going to change its doctrine for them. So why would it change for homosexuals who make up far less than 10% of the population? And, by the way, how could the Church allow homosexual sex while not allowing contraception? Homosexual sex is contraceptive by its very nature.

You don’t understand the matter of homosexuality fully, and therefore think it is absoutly wrong and against God’s will. But did you ever consider that two people of the same sex may actually have true love with one another in this lifetime, however odd it may seem to you? That is what many people fail to see.

Just because I’m not married does not mean that I don’t know anything about love and therefore you can disregard what I say.

I didn’t mean that your not being married doesn’t allow you to understand what love is. I meant that your lack of understanding of love as more than just a feeling betrays the fact that you’re not married. I apologize if I offended you, I promise it wasn’t my intent. Love is more than a feeling. I wouldn’t be Catholic if the Church taught that God is some mushy feeling. Instead it teaches that love is action - completely selfless action. The Father gives the whole of creation to the Son, the Son in turn submits perfectly to the Father’s will, and the Holy Spirit works to renew and sanctify the world. It’s this action of love that we live out in the sacrament of marriage. This love cannot be a slave to one’s feelings; instead a husband and wife must deliberately chose to imitate the Trinity in their charity toward one another.

That’s why I believe you don’t understand love fully. Please teach me the ways in which I don’t understand the matter of homosexuality fully.

 

[Brendan]

Actually I think it’s more of a vice versa kinda thing. WHen we love others, we love God because everyone has God in them. When we love God, we love others because if we are truly in communion with him then we should start acting in his image.

Nope, we can’t give what we don’t have. We must enter into the Divine sharing of Love before we can give that love to others.

No human can really describe love or why we feel love.

I find that rather humorous, considering your sig line attempts to do that

ANd you must consider this: Why can’t true love be experienced between two people fo the same gender? Just because you don’t understand doens’t mean that it isn’t so.

I never said I didn’t understand it. I do understand what true love is, I said so in my post above.

That is why it cannot be shared in a homosexual way. It runs counter to the very premise of Love.

Sometimes the love of homosexuals is actually purer than that of a man and a woman, which usually turns into a divorce. I admit that some homosexuals are really sick and twisted, but that doesn’t mean all of them are.

No it’s not. You seem to be stuck on this concept of Love as an emotion. It is not. Love is a person, God Himself. We engage with that Divine Person when we desire what He desires, the Enternal Salvation of the one who is loved.

And why does homosexuality deny heaven? If you are saying that anyone who has ever lived on this planet deserves eternal torture, then you are sick and I no longer wish to argue with you. You aren’t that kind of person, are you?

Actually, yes, we ALL deserve Hell. Salvation is a Gift from God. No one is entitled to a Gift, no one can tell God that He is obligated to give us this Gift.

If you consider me ‘sick’ for saying so, sorry, that is the Teaching of the Catholic Church, that Salvation is an Unmerited Gift.

Are you saying that you are somehow ENTITLED to go to Heaven. How so?

And, as I said clearly in my second post, homosexuality itself is not sinful. In fact, when accepted in a celibate way, it can be a source of spiritual benefit; in much the same way as a recovering alcoholic gains spiritual benefits when they remain dry.

The sin occurs when one gives into the temptation and engages in homosexual acts.

 

[Brendan]

Why are they sinful? That’s like saying sex between couples is sinful.

Sex is sinful outside of a God created Marital Bond.

And certains acts within marriage are also sinful ( such as those which are not ordered towards the generation of life)

 

[pprimeau1976]

As many have stated there is ample evidence of a biological cause for homosexual orientation. So someitmes I question why God or the Church would deny them the intimacy they desire. And the procreative arguments don’t work because there will always be heterosexual couples to do that.

First off, the Church is Christian and Jesus told us plainly what the purpose of marriage is when he talked about the evil of divorce. He reinforced what the writer of Genesis wrote and attached marriage to sex. There are many men who may desire the intimacy of another woman, yet Christ denied them this desire.

Now, you used the word intimacy and it could mean something sexual or emotional. The Church does not forbid emotional intimacy outside of marriage.

 

[goofyjim]

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

 

[Brendan]

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

True, it’s a Moral Disorder ( like many others)

 

[goofyjim]

True, it’s a Moral Disorder ( like many others)

I don’t even call the orientation a disorder of any sort anymore. It’s so degrading a term. If that makes me a heretic so be it.

 

[brianwalden]

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

Great. I agree. Do we both then agree that since homosexuality doesn’t diminish one’s ability to choose between good and evil, those who participate in homosexual acts freely choose to do so against god’s will? If you disagree, then please answer this question. Does a man born with very strong heterosexual desires sin when he engages in sex outside of marriage?

 

[Cristiano]

I don’t even call the orientation a disorder of any sort anymore. It’s so degrading a term. If that makes me a heretic so be it.

Sometime I have lust in my heart. It is a moral disorder and yes it is degrading realizing that!

 

[fix]

Being a non religious type, I find after reading many of these religious forums on homosexuality it seems to me that the only choice involved here is someone “choosing” to believe in a imaginary, invisible man in the sky who is watching over the entire planet…or at least the relevant Christian parts of it.
You folks “choose” to believe in this. I don’t. You choose to do good things to ensure your place in heaven. I do good things because it feels good. It just feels right. For the record…my gay Christian friends and I have similar discussions. As for the procreation argument, I did my part back in the early '80’s as a registered sperm donor (some 40 offspring) supplying couples with “very high count” sperm when the husbands were not able to. Should they have been allowed to marry? My sister and her husband of 30 years are childless by choice. Should they have been allowed to marry?
I’m ranting…so I’ll leave now.

If it feels good do it? Is that a rational way to lead one’s life?

 

[fix]

I don’t even call the orientation a disorder of any sort anymore. It’s so degrading a term. If that makes me a heretic so be it.

The attraction is objectively disordered. Why would God ordain that? It may be part of His permitting will, but God would not ordain any inclination that is not ordered toward good.

 

[Brendan]

I don’t even call the orientation a disorder of any sort anymore. It’s so degrading a term. If that makes me a heretic so be it.

But it is a disorder. Homosexuality is Ordered towards ( directed\inclinded) towards a Moral shortcoming.

It describes the fact that Moral Compass of the person experiencing homosexual inclinations is directed towards a false goal.

That IS a Disorder.

I won’t call you a heretic, but rather you are in denial over a plain fact.

 

[goofyjim]

But it is a disorder. Homosexuality is Ordered towards ( directed\inclinded) towards a Moral shortcoming.

It describes the fact that Moral Compass of the person experiencing homosexual inclinations is directed towards a false goal.

That IS a Disorder.

I won’t call you a heretic, but rather you are in denial over a plain fact.

Think outside the box here. If there is a biological component, which there is ample evidence there is, God must be designing some people with this inclination. If that is true how can anything God designs be disordered.

 

[goofyjim]

Like I said folks if you check the DSM you can find that everyone of us fits into some disorder category. Therefore none of us should be pointing the finger at anyone else. When you do there are five pointing back at you.

 

[davidv]

Think outside the box here. If there is a biological component, which there is ample evidence there is, God must be designing some people with this inclination. If that is true how can anything God designs be disordered.

It doesn’t matter if there is a biological component, its still a disorder. There is a biological componet to Down’s Syndrome, but its still a disorder. Through sin, humans have introduced disorder into many aspects of God’s perfect design.

 

[goofyjim]

It may be difficult for me but I will take the month of July off from these forums. I see very little compassion.

 

[pprimeau1976]

I think that people don’t want to label things disorder because it’s not a nice sounding word. That’s just silly. Would you be more comfortable if we just called the attraction “temptation” instead and the action “sin”?

Changing the phraseology doesn’t help the homosexual any more than calling me, a person with attention deficit disorder, “interuptably abled.”

 

[brianwalden]

Think outside the box here. If there is a biological component, which there is ample evidence there is, God must be designing some people with this inclination. If that is true how can anything God designs be disordered.

goofyjim, by your logic there can be nothing imperfect at all in the world. Read Genesis. God created the world perfect, but it is now fallen just as man is. Everything is imperfect, or disordered, while the world awaits Christ’s second coming.

How about a different example of a biological component to a sinful inclination. Some people are born with an unhealthily high inclination to risk taking. They can’t go to a Casino because they’re unable to gamble in a way that doesn’t lead to addiction. Would you say that its wrong for society to tell such a person he shouldn’t gamble, even though others are able to do so? Would you say that instead the person should gamble his life away no matter what the consequences because his inclination is a biological one?

 

[brianwalden]

It may be difficult for me but I will take the month of July off from these forums. I see very little compassion.

Lack of compassion? People are patiently explaining the Church’s position on sexuality. If anything the problem is that some people prefer to make moral judgments using compassion alone. True compassion cannot be divorced from the Truth.

We all suffer from some sort of temptation and we all fail resist that temptation. In this way we can share in the struggles someone with a homosexual inclination faces even though we may never fully understand the specific type or severity of pain that they experience. We all must try to do this, but at the same time we can never condone homosexual actions just as we can never condone our heterosexual friends’ and family’s decisions to have sex outside of marriage or to use contraception.

 

[Sina]

Arrgghh this controversy always pains me. People are so quick to point out that homosexuals are sinful people. I am a heterosexual. Does that make me sinful? Only if I engage in extra-marital sexual relations with someone else besides my husband, or myself! Same goes for homosexuals. Only if they practice sexual impurities are they sinful, and you cannot judge this.

Also, I do not think it is a mental disorder. It does not interfere with someone’s ability to lead a happy, healthy and normal life. Anxiety and depression etc… do.

Why always blame the “Gay lobby group”. Perhaps someone who is a medical practicioner in psychiatry can explain the methadology behind the reasoning for exluding homosexuality from the list of mental disorders, or why it was even there in the first place? Maybe homophobic Doctors put it there in the first place?

It is, however, a large cross to bear for those who are faithful and called to celibacy.