Homosexuality: A Mental Disorder?

[brianwalden]

Arrgghh this controversy always pains me. People are so quick to point out that homosexuals are sinful people. I am a heterosexual. Does that make me sinful?

Sina, If that’s in response to my statement: “How about a different example of a biological component to a sinful inclination. Some people are born with an unhealthily high inclination to risk taking.”

I worded this imprecisely and I apologize. I didn’t mean to call the inclination (to homosexuality or to abusive gambling) itself sinful. I should have worded it as an “inclination to sin” rather than a “sinful inclination.”

 

[Sina]

Hey,
No I wasn’t complaining about your post, I liked it. I was complaining about something I read on the first page of this thread.

My brother is homosexual so I take this all very personally. I am sure many others in the faith are in the same situation and are forced to look at homosexuality and their role as a Christian sibling from a slightly different perspective perhaps?

 

[Brendan]

Think outside the box here. If there is a biological component, which there is ample evidence there is, God must be designing some people with this inclination. If that is true how can anything God designs be disordered.

There is a strong connection to biological reasons for alcoholism as well.

That does not mean that God designed the person that way, only that the person was allowed to be that way.

And just because a person has a biological predisposition towards alcholism doesn’t mean that the Christian response to that is to give them a Rum and Coke, or even to tolerate drunkeness. The correct Christian response is to assist them in living a ‘dry’ lifestyle.

The same is true for homosexuality. If someone has a biological predisposition towards homosexualty, it also does not mean we are to tolerate homosexual acts, but rather assist them in living a chaste life.

Each of us has struggles in life we are to overcome, crosses we have to bear. Homosexuals, like all the rest of us, are no exception. Homosexuality is a cross, a daily struggle. Like alcoholism in some, like anger management in some, like cancer is for some.

But God gives us the Grace and Strenght to overcome them if we look to Him.

 

[Brendan]

It may be difficult for me but I will take the month of July off from these forums. I see very little compassion.

There is a huge wealth of compassion here. I think you might be defining ‘compassion’ incorrectly.

Compassion is helping a person to overcome obstacles, it is NOT encouraging a person an untruth.

 

[Brendan]

Hey,
No I wasn’t complaining about your post, I liked it. I was complaining about something I read on the first page of this thread.

My brother is homosexual so I take this all very personally. I am sure many others in the faith are in the same situation and are forced to look at homosexuality and their role as a Christian sibling from a slightly different perspective perhaps?

Hi Sina,

Yes, we all agree that homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

It is a Moral Disorder ( one among many), but not a mental issue.

In many ways, that makes it morally more difficult for someone suffering from homosexual tendencies. It means that their Reason is unimpared and a choice to engage in homosexual ACTS is that much more likely to be sin.

If it was a mental disorder, it could be argued that the person did not have sufficent use of Reason and was therefore not culpable.

 

[brianwalden]

Maybe another way to look at this is by comparing it to other sins.

You would never let someone get away with the line, “I’m not a glutton. Sure I eat 10 full meals a day and center my life around my eating schedule, but I eat all health food so it’s OK.” Similarly you would never let someone off the hook for gluttony because they have a sweet tooth. It doesn’t matter how you do it, its still gluttony.

The same thing goes for sexual sins. Some people have an inclination toward homosexuality, some have an inclination toward pornography and masturbation, some have an inclination toward cheap one-night stands, some have an inclination for selfish contraceptive sex, etc. I’m sure we could come up with a long list if we wanted to. I’m also sure that each of us can come up with at least one type of sexual sin which we’re more inclined to than others. But it doesn’t matter what flavor the sin comes in, its all an abuse of our God-given sexuality.

 

[setter]

evidence is evidence. no one knows everything for sure about where gayness comes from, but we’re learning more all the time, and the more we learn, the more inadequate the freudian model becomes.

My point exactly. There is no conclusive evidence of whether SSA is genetically, prenatal, hormonal and/or environmentally determined or influenced and to which degree. SSA is not a homogeneous group, just as any psychological disorder (whether genetically, prenatal, hormonal and/or environmentally determined or influenced) is not a homogeneous group, but categorically defined. There is more evidence that SSA is psycho-socially “developed” than there is for possible biological or genetic causality.

Btw – Political and social agendas is what drives funding for research and the “findings” and “conclusions” from studies where ‘being gay is okay’ and ‘that’s just how I was made’ are the PC mantra.

religious conservatives need to get beyond any arguments that depend on homosexual desire being a choice.

The Church as orthodox is conservative.

 

[setter]

Originally Posted by goofyjim
Homosexuality is not a mental disorder

.

True, it’s a Moral Disorder ( like many others)

SSA is a symptom of an underlying psychological disorder. Natural moral law demonstrates that SSA is a disorder of one’s psychosexual identity and a moral disorder as its expression can only be gravely sinful. Etiology of SSA is a separate issue.

 

[BrianK2007]

I know I’m being lazy but I didn’t read very far through this thread.

I’m gay, God has given me a clear list of things I’m not aloud to do. I still want to do them. And I’m not limiting these things to sex.

It’s my choice to obey or not, and I have to live with the consequences. Mental disorder not withstanding.

By the way I’m still carrying a torch for someone and that isn’t easy for me. I know that grace is another thread but if you are gay and trying to live in your state of life you under stand the need for grace.

If anyone wants to say a prayer for me and people like me we need all the help we can get.

 

[goofyjim]

My point exactly. There is no conclusive evidence of whether SSA is genetically, prenatal, hormonal and/or environmentally determined or influenced and to which degree. SSA is not a homogeneous group, just as any psychological disorder (whether genetically, prenatal, hormonal and/or environmentally determined or influenced) is not a homogeneous group, but categorically defined. There is more evidence that SSA is psycho-socially “developed” than there is for possible biological or genetic causality.

Btw – Political and social agendas is what drives funding for research and the “findings” and “conclusions” from studies where ‘being gay is okay’ and ‘that’s just how I was made’ are the PC mantra.

The Church as orthodox is conservative.

So define these pscho-social causes. You’ll find that they don’t fit everyone either. So then you have to return to a biological reason. Noone has been listening here. I am in agreement as to the sinful behavior. But SSA is not a disorder. It is a natural variant of humanity.

 

[Joseph_Michael]

I’m gay, God has given me a clear list of things I’m not aloud to do. I still want to do them. And I’m not limiting these things to sex.

By the way I’m still carrying a torch for someone and that isn’t easy for me. I know that grace is another thread but if you are gay and trying to live in your state of life you under stand the need for grace.

If anyone wants to say a prayer for me and people like me we need all the help we can get.

I will keep you in my prayers, brother. I’m struggling with the same things and i attend Mass every day. I’m 53 now and i still struggle with it, but find it a bit easier to stay away from actual sin at my age. The daily Mass attendance and praying the Rosary has helped me immensely.

May God protect you and shower you with His grace.

Joseph Michael

 

[Riley259]

Being a non religious type, I find after reading many of these religious forums on homosexuality it seems to me that the only choice involved here is someone “choosing” to believe in a imaginary, invisible man in the sky who is watching over the entire planet…or at least the relevant Christian parts of it.
You folks “choose” to believe in this. I don’t. You choose to do good things to ensure your place in heaven. I do good things because it feels good. It just feels right. For the record…my gay Christian friends and I have similar discussions. As for the procreation argument, I did my part back in the early '80’s as a registered sperm donor (some 40 offspring) supplying couples with “very high count” sperm when the husbands were not able to. Should they have been allowed to marry? My sister and her husband of 30 years are childless by choice. Should they have been allowed to marry?
I’m ranting…so I’ll leave now.

Keep reading and participating in the forums…I’m certain you’ll learn why being a registered sperm donor and having 40 offspring who probably don’t have a clue who their father is is an ethical problem. You also might learn that your incredibly simple and distorted idea of Christian beliefs is wrong. Give it a chance…you might be surprised after awhile. I’ll pray for you.

 

[Joseph_Michael]

Read carefully.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents **homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,**141 tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”**142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, **by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **

141 Cf. Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
142 CDF, Persona humana 8.

Bold type, emphasis mine.

I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite clear. This is the end of the discussion for Catholics.

I am one who is acquainted with this subject personally. I am a chaste homosexual myself and i believe in what the Church teaches.

Mary conceived without sin, pray for me.

Joseph Michael

PS. I tried to read all the postings but i’m not sure if the quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church has already been quoted. If so forgive me.

 

[goofyjim]

Read carefully.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents **homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,**141 tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”**142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, **by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **

141 Cf. Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
142 CDF, Persona humana 8.

Bold type, emphasis mine.

I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite clear. This is the end of the discussion for Catholics.

I am one who is acquainted with this subject personally. I am a chaste homosexual myself and i believe in what the Church teaches.

Mary conceived without sin, pray for me.

Joseph Michael

PS. I tried to read all the postings but i’m not sure if the quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church has already been quoted. If so forgive me.

As I said I must be an unfaithful Catholic because I don’t buy into the disordered inclination stuff.

 

[emily47017]

There is no conclusive evidence of whether SSA is genetically, prenatal, hormonal and/or environmentally determined or influenced and to which degree.

yep, we agree.

my post was challenging the assertion by many that there is no evidence at all for biological determination. both sides of the debate are willing to fund studies and jump to grand conclusions based on their results; what irks me is when people pick their pet theory and declare that other theories lack any scientific support.

The Church as orthodox is conservative.

i’m not sure what you mean by this. can you elaborate?

 

[Brendan]

I will keep you in my prayers, brother. I’m struggling with the same things …l

Joseph, you and Brian are wonderful models of Christ. Thank you for your struggles, it brings Grace into the world.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Read carefully.

As a heretic, I answer these rubrics. If I err, then it shows my humanity.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,

Actually, the majority of condemnations of homosexual act, other than buggery, or homosexual rape are quite minimal, being compared to minor infringements of the Sabbath.

141 tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”**142 They are contrary to the natural law.

Beware of appeals to nature. Nature is natural for beasts, but by the same token, bestiality is natural.

They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

There is no question that bestiality is unG_dly.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity.

Our Lord, in answer to Peter’s question on the adviseabilty of marriage said: All are called to chastity, but not all all were capable of carrying such a cross. (My interpretation of His actual words.)

By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, **by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. **

Yes, they should approach, that is draw nearer to, but they are not expected to achieve perfection, for as Our Lord said: Not all can bear this cross.

141 Cf. Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
142 CDF, Persona humana 8.

Bold type, emphasis mine.

I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite clear. This is the end of the discussion for Catholics.

I am one who is acquainted with this subject personally. I am a chaste homosexual myself and i believe in what the Church teaches.

I commend you on your strength: pray for those who have not such strength, and understand with compassion those who cannot bear this cross alone.

Mary conceived without sin, pray for me.

Joseph Michael

PS. I tried to read all the postings but i’m not sure if the quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church has already been quoted. If so forgive me.

 

[BrianK2007]

I’m really tired and I’m ready to hit the hay, but before I do I have some questions.

Who really cares if it’s a ‘Mental Disorder’ or not?

What possible difference does it make?

And of what concern is this to any straight person, it isn’t your problem now is it?

please give each question at least a’little thought.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

I’m really tired and I’m ready to hit the hay, but before I do I have some questions.

I hope you had a good night’s rest, and are now refreshed for the new day.

Who really cares if it’s a ‘Mental Disorder’ or not?

Well, if it is a disorder, than, the phrase, not intended as an insult:
‘Not guilty, by reason of insanity’ is relevant.
Not that we are talking of insanity, but certainly we are talking about an incorrectly initialized operating system. But this incorrectness cannot be fixed without re-initializing, which as you know from your computers, destroys all data, so this is equivalent to euthanasia, and thus cannot be contemplated.

What possible difference does it make?

Since this incorrect initialization is then the result of some accident, and is not correctable, then the condition, and some behaviours resulting therefrom, cannot be held as culpable.

And of what concern is this to any straight person, it isn’t your problem now is it?

‘They came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew. . . .’
comes to mind. It does not need to be my problem, but shall I look the other way when someone is persecuted?

please give each question at least a’little thought.

I hope my thoughts do not offend you, offence is not intended.

 

[BrianK2007]

I just can’t sleep so I’m taking one last spin on the Internet before I pack up my computer, I’m moving on Monday (after two years I’m finally going home.)

Don’t worry, you can’t offend me. I’m just to conceded.

As for the persecution of ANYONE, yeah we ALL need to be ready to stand up.

But this is my hardship, God gave it to me and it’s mine. And I won’t let anyone other then The Lord Him self take it away from me. Saint Paul spoke about the thorn in his flesh, I don’t know if the Church has a teaching on what this thorn was or not so I will have to work with my ignorance here. I think I kind’a know what he meant by it. I’m not saying he was gay, please do not miss quote me and say that I said that. I am saying I think I know what he meant when he wrote: “I will rather boast most gladly of my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may dwell with me. Therefore, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and constraints, for the sake of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am strong.”