Homosexuality and Catholic Conversion

[chrysostim83]

People with same-sex attractions are obligated to chastity. Celibacy is the sacrifice by a priest or religious of the good of a family to be in the service of God. This is beautiful and pleasing to Him. Individuals with same-sex attractions can have no valid desire for a family. The only thing they can sacrifice is a thing of abhorrent evil. It has all the moral substance of a child giving up Brussels sprouts for Lent.

People with same-sex attractions are required to avoid the near occasion of sin. That means, in their cases, any contact or association with members of their own gender. It also implies avoiding contact with members of the opposite gender since this may lead to scandal or exacerbate their loathsome condition. Divorce for a “married” couple of this sort is only the beginning. Solitude is the best option until they choose to avail themselves of NARTH and be made into something less dangerous and pathological.

Very interesting post because it brings together all of the worst arguments you can find about homosexuality in the Catholic world. In fact, even the Holy Father has endorsed the idea that celibacy is meaningless for gay men since they aren’t really sacrificing marriage and family when they pursue it.

As everyone is agreed that the post isn’t a fair representation of what the Church says to the gay men and lesbian women in Her midst, my question to OtherEric would be, if you were still a Catholic, how would you refute these bad arguments?

 

[PJM]

=Conor7;8094126]I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

Catholics begin from the perspective of:

HATE the sin BUT LOVE the sinner.

Active life styles that are intrinsicly sinful are a MORTAL SIN. One may not with an informed conscience overlook what is true.

Such people are to LOVED and prayed for that they will life celebant lifes.

God Bless you friend,
Pat

 

[Cheshangle]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

I used to be a member of a Church of Ireland forum. 90% of us were Anglicans but we had a few RC members, including a monk, and they made a very valuable contribution. One, not the monk, was a gay, who had converted to the EC Church, and found them “surprisingly kind, accepting and understanding”. I didn’t ask him if he was practicing or not.

Incidentally, the RCs on that forum were always treated with respect and politeness. Do you think that that applies to the Anglicans here? Do you think that our contributions are valuable?

 

[Azurestone]

Very interesting post because it brings together all of the worst arguments you can find about homosexuality in the Catholic world. In fact, even the Holy Father has endorsed the idea that celibacy is meaningless for gay men since they aren’t really sacrificing marriage and family when they pursue it.

What kind of **** is this? This completely misunderstands the point of celibacy and the reality of homosexuality.

 

[chrysostim83]

What kind of **** is this? This completely misunderstands the point of celibacy and the reality of homosexuality.

I agree completely, but unfortunately Benedict has argued the point in Light of the World: the offending paragraph is reproduced in the second block quote in Andrew Brown’s blog post, Pope Tries to Ban Gay Priests, Again.

I should point out that believing that the Pope was wrong to urge this argument is very possible for Catholics, since the book is just the record of Benedict’s off-the-cuff responses to a journalist and, by and large, merely represents his private opinions.

It just goes to show that while the Church tries to be welcoming to gay men and lesbian women, She doesn’t always succeed.

 

[Azurestone]

It just goes to show that while the Church tries to be welcoming to gay men and lesbian women, She doesn’t always succeed.

However, I also don’t agree that people are truly “homosexual”. A desire, taste, or choice is not a personal trait. It is just an aspect or perversion of personality.

Therefore, to say homosexuals can’t receive the same level of devotion as a heterosexual, is ro accept that homosexuals are truly a different people. They’re not, they are humans with a perversion. Controlling which may be a cross to bear, but necessary to realize the sancity of sex and it’s proper place and context.

 

[seeker57]

However, I also don’t agree that people are truly “homosexual”. A desire, taste, or choice is not a personal trait. It is just an aspect or perversion of personality.

Therefore, to say homosexuals can’t receive the same level of devotion as a heterosexual, is ro accept that homosexuals are truly a different people. They’re not, they are humans with a perversion. Controlling which may be a cross to bear, but necessary to realize the sancity of sex and it’s proper place and context.

And what are your qualifications for stating homosexuality isn’t a character trait? On what do you base this? Citations please.

From what I have read and been told, being gay or lesbian is not considered sinful or a choice by the Roman Catholic Church, but it does say acting on those desires is a sin.

That is why your church has its “hate the sin, love the sinner,” caveat.

I would be surprised any gay or lesbian person would wish to become Catholic with these restrictions, but that’s just me.

Seeker

 

[Azurestone]

And what are your qualifications for stating homosexuality isn’t a character trait? On what do you base this? Citations please.

From what I have read and been told, being gay or lesbian is not considered sinful or a choice by the Roman Catholic Church, but it does say acting on those desires is a sin.

That is why your church has its “hate the sin, love the sinner,” caveat.

I would be surprised any gay or lesbian person would wish to become Catholic with these restrictions, but that’s just me.

Seeker

I said personal trait, intended as ‘something you’re born with’. I would find your ‘character trait’ to actually line up with my original point.

As far as citations, considering homosexuality since the 70s has been blacklisted as untouchable with a words war lately pushing even the term ‘homosexual’ as derogatory and inappropriate, I don’t think you actually had any credible demand. Not to mention, if I did cite something, judging by your tone, you wouldn’t mind much attention to them anyways.

As for the rest, I haven’t a clue where you thought I was arguing against this position of the Catholic Church. If fact, I was actually arguing for it.

 

[Caged]

A few people have said that homosexuals are free to be members of the Church but have to be celibate.

My question is how would you even know whether they were?

Bug their house?

 

[Cheshangle]

A few people have said that homosexuals are free to be members of the Church but have to be celibate.

My question is how would you even know whether they were?

Bug their house?

Well presumably, if they were “real catholics” they’d confess it to the priest.

I’m not sure what would hapen then.

 

[Cheshangle]

A few people have said that homosexuals are free to be members of the Church but have to be celibate.

My question is how would you even know whether they were?

Bug their house?

It’s not for me to say whether or not a RC priest would give communion to someoen he knew was in a same sex relationship. but when at the RC Cathedral in Sydney some gay (RC) activists went up to the altar wearing “Proud to be Gay” sashes, Cardinal Pell politely refused them communion. I don’t think he had any option in that matter. His Anglican opposite number and friend, Archbishop Jensen, would have done just the same.

Incidentally, Abp Jensen compares homosexuals to alcoholics. “If you’re an alcoholic, you should steer clear of booze; if you’re gay you should steer clear of sex.”

 

[PJM]

=Tyuiop411;8095095]Because they’re sinful, all sinful acts are detrimental to our spiritual health whether they be the more mundane act of lust or the act of homosexual sex

Two are sinful and one isn’t it. I wouldn’t say homosexual sex is a graver sin than premarital heterosexual sex though we do tend to stigmatize it more.

***Friend, how is one to have a discussion that is: 1. Truthful 2. Complete Without referencing God. Are we to pretend that God does not exist or that we alone can determine the sinfulness [or lack there-of] in the decisions we make? This is silliness and will led one to an eternal destiny that is very warm.

God is REAL as are Hell and heaven.

Because Humanity ALONE has the capacity to freely choose Good or Evil; there naturally are consequences to these as well as all other actions.

It is wrong because 1. It VOIDS the PRIMARY-reason we have the ability to have sex, which is PROCREATION… NOT Recreation 2. It therefore is an unnatural act. [not intended by the Creator of humanity].

A Mortal sin is a MORTAL sin. The ptremarital sex LIKE homosexual sex has the same goals: Personal gratification without pregnancy. So why then would one be “more serious than the other.” Both are IMORAL ACTS

God Bless,
Pat***

 

[Cheshangle]

I may regret posting this, as this is a hotly debated topic, but what is the Catholic Church’s stance on a homosexual converting?

I ask because as an Episcopalian, this isn’t so much of a big deal, depending on the parish. Episcopalians, for the most part, expect homosexuals to be celibate or monogamous, or where legal, married. But how does the Catholic Church compare? Could an open homosexual convert, but have to remain celibate? Is the idea of homosexual rehabilitation popular in the Catholic Church as it is in more fundamentalist denominations?

Should I expand my question further? How do all denominations compare?

I ask because we have a fair amount of homosexual couples in my parish. Most of whom are in the choir.

It’s said/thought, that the Anglo-Catholic community contains quite a few gay men. Since it is largely from Anglo-Catholics that the trickle of Anglicans moving to Rome via the Ordinariate are drawn, I imagine that some people might have some explaining to do.