Homosexuality and the priesthood

[LDNCatholic]

Hi all,

I was discussing the Churches view on homosexuality with some (Atheist) friends the other day, and was getting the point across quite well until they asked if gay people can become priests. I told them, as I had heard that men with ‘‘deep seated’’ homosexuality were barred from the priesthood. One of them asked me what ‘‘deep seated homosexuality’’ meant, and I have to admit I did not know.

So, settle this discussion for me please: are all homosexuals barred from the priesthood or is there an explaination for the meaning of ‘‘deep seated’’?

Thanks in advance and God bless

Peter

 

[BrianLC]

first of all, I recomend www.vatican.va and type this into the search bar.

this is a very tricky topic and a very conterversial one in the secular world and even among some people in the Church as well. I think the best answer is that there is a spectrum of same sex attractions, one can be entirely heterosexual and entirely homosexual and every where in between like bisexual. someone who plagued entirely by homosexual attractions and has no trace of hetero attractions would be barred from the Priesthood. Homosexual acts are sinful as stated many times in Sacred Scripture. another thing that might help you is The Courage to be Chaste by Fr. Benedict Groeschel. and do a google search on the Courage apostolate

 

[justagirl]

In addition to what Brian said, I think it depends on how strong the sexual attractions/urges are. Has the man lived chastely for years? Is he content and comfortable in his chastity? Is he often tempted? Does he continue to lust after men and/or look at pornography? Questions like that are important, I imagine.

 

[OKCatholic]

Do to the secular world’s complete embracing of not only homosexuality but all form’s of sexual deviation, many people view the Catholic Church’s stance of issues of sexual morality as bigoted. Basically, no definition or explanation can ever suffice. To many in the anti-religious secular world, unless you fully embrace any sexual deviation you are intolerant and hate filled. That’s the difficulty of a response that is dependent on the other party to be both objective and charitable. It’s not that a clear and concise explanation cannot be offered, it’s just that unless the other party is willing to simply accept the legitimacy of our argument, no explanation will ever be accepted. The anti-Catholic world views our position on sexual morality in the same way a normal human being would view a Neo-Nazi’s anti-semitic mentality. Think about it. Would you ever be willing to accept a Neo-Nazi’s defense of anti-semitism? Of course not.

Here is a recent example of the sexual depravity of the secular world. From the Catholic League: “The House of Representatives will vote this week, possibly tomorrow, on a hate crimes bill championed by gay groups that includes pedophiles under the rubric of sexual orientation.” That’s right. Soon pedophilia will be included as a legitimate sexual orientation.

 

[JReducation]

The issue is not really about sexual preference, since heterosexual men can be equally promiscuous. Deep seated homosexuality refers to a particular lifestyle that obviously involves homosexual activity.

Just as a playboy is not a good candidate for the priesthood, neither is a homosexual playboy.

Chastity is part of the Christian vocation, not only the priesthood or religiosu life. What the Church is looking for is men who live a chaste life

As for lust, that can be tricky, because the definition often gets obscured by temptations. They are not the same. Everyone experiences temptations. Lust is a constant state of mind, gay or straight.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[LDNCatholic]

Thanks guys. So just to clarify, it would seem that there is not a ban on homosexual men entering the priesthood, only those who would have a problem keeping it under control? Is that about right?

 

[JReducation]

Thanks guys. So just to clarify, it would seem that there is not a ban on homosexual men entering the priesthood, only those who would have a problem keeping it under control? Is that about right?

Let’s put it this way. It’s all about being called to live a celibate life, whether you are gay or straight.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[LDNCatholic]

Let’s put it this way. It’s all about being called to live a celibate life, whether you are gay or straight.

Fraternally,

JR

Ok, thats fair enough. So…(and I’m sorry to be so dense, but the conversation came up again today), a man with same sex attraction, if completely celibate, may be able to be ordained?

 

[OKCatholic]

It’s all about maturity and stability, which is part of the psychological evaluation that every seminary applicant must undergo. I was given the opportunity to read the report on my evaluation which was prepared by the psychologist. The conclusion of the report centered on certain criteria that my archdiocese needs to know about. These include: 1) Do I appear to be mentally able to undergo the academic and spiritual stresses of seminary life? 2) Am I comfortable and secure in my masculinity? 3) Do I have any areas of concern as to my ability to function well with other seminarians? 4) Am I likely to be the cause of controversy or instability in my class of seminarians in particular or in the seminary in general? 5) Am I likely to be able to successfully cope with being chaste?

A person with a deep-seated homosexual nature OR a heterosexual “playboy” would both be unlikely to satisfactorily meet these criteria. Of course, it should be noted that no one has a “right” to attend seminary as a priestly candidate. Of course, many seminaries operate within university systems where just about anyone can take many of the same classes as a seminarian. But, the priesthood is not a right. It is a divine calling to be determined as genuine by the Holy Church. That means at any point my archbishop can tell me I do not have a calling and I can have my sponsorship to seminary revoked. This goes to the heart of obedience.

 

[bilop]

Thanks guys. So just to clarify, it would seem that there is not a ban on homosexual men entering the priesthood, only those who would have a problem keeping it under control? Is that about right?

Not quite. In my understanding, a persistent homosexual orientation is disqualifying for entry into seminary.

A man may have had same sex attraction in the past, and even have engaged in homosexual activities (if it was transitory or in his youth), but he needs to have overcome that orientation before he enters seminary.

God Bless

 

[redrosetea]

Hi all,

I was discussing the Churches view on homosexuality with some (Atheist) friends the other day, and was getting the point across quite well until they asked if gay people can become priests. I told them, as I had heard that men with ‘‘deep seated’’ homosexuality were barred from the priesthood. One of them asked me what ‘‘deep seated homosexuality’’ meant, and I have to admit I did not know.

So, settle this discussion for me please: are all homosexuals barred from the priesthood or is there an explaination for the meaning of ‘‘deep seated’’?

Thanks in advance and God bless

Peter

People who can’t seem to remain celibate I think…I am sure there have probably always been gay clergy, but it seems that in today’s culture they were unwilling to put God first, and want to commit sinful acts and still be a priest

I am also sure we have had gay priests who were most likely exemplary priests

 

[Tezza]

Here is the vatican document

Instruction
Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations
with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies
in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html

Might help shed some light.

Peace,
Teri

“God has assigned as a duty to every man the dignity of every woman.” Pope John Paul II

 

[anne87]

I don’t understand why it would matter if a priest were homosexual or heterosexual, as they are expected to be celibate, and take a vow, either way.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I don’t understand why it would matter if a priest were homosexual or heterosexual, as they are expected to be celibate, and take a vow, either way.

As I understand it, firstly it is because a priest must be able to place himself in the position of a father, which a homosexual may not be as equipped to do.

Also a priest, whether secular or religious, will be living in an exclusively male community which could be an occasion of sin if he is attracted to men.

 

[Toribus]

I don’t understand why it would matter if a priest were homosexual or heterosexual, as they are expected to be celibate, and take a vow, either way.

This position, we must remember, is not at all doctrinal and is entirely disciplinary. The judgement of the Church that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered is doctrinal, but does not change the fact that a homosexual man can still be a baptised man, and therefore valid matter for Holy Orders.

The fact that it is disciplinary is relevant because it tells us something about its purpose. Disciplines are enacted by the Church to preserve the faith (and the faithful) against particular assaults. Friday abstinence and penance is designed to temper the faithful against material indulgence, Sunday Mass to preserve the faithful against the temptations of irreligion.

This discipline is particularly important for the preservation of the priesthood. Think about it - if you have a whole bunch of generally young, intelligent, and often attractive men spending their lives together for seven years, is that really the best place to put a man who suffers from a disordered attraction to other men? Wouldn’t the very lifestyle of the seminary be an unreasonably strong provocation of their disordered desires, a near occasion of sin?

Satan hates man, and priests in particular. If a seminarian shows up with homosexual inclinations, don’t you think satan would torment this man with such debased temptations?

The Church loves all her children, especially the men and women who must suffer from this disordered state. This is why, for their own preservation, she has barred them from Holy Orders. The chaste life is already a great sacrifice for people who have a properly functioning sexual instinct, how much more of a burden it must be for those whose sexual impulses are disordered.

 

[kyria]

This position, we must remember, is not at all doctrinal and is entirely disciplinary. The judgement of the Church that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered is doctrinal, but does not change the fact that a homosexual man can still be a baptised man, and therefore valid matter for Holy Orders.

The fact that it is disciplinary is relevant because it tells us something about its purpose. Disciplines are enacted by the Church to preserve the faith (and the faithful) against particular assaults. Friday abstinence and penance is designed to temper the faithful against material indulgence, Sunday Mass to preserve the faithful against the temptations of irreligion.

This discipline is particularly important for the preservation of the priesthood. Think about it - if you have a whole bunch of generally young, intelligent, and often attractive men spending their lives together for seven years, is that really the best place to put a man who suffers from a disordered attraction to other men? Wouldn’t the very lifestyle of the seminary be an unreasonably strong provocation of their disordered desires, a near occasion of sin?

Satan hates man, and priests in particular. If a seminarian shows up with homosexual inclinations, don’t you think satan would torment this man with such debased temptations?

The Church loves all her children, especially the men and women who must suffer from this disordered state. This is why, for their own preservation, she has barred them from Holy Orders. The chaste life is already a great sacrifice for people who have a properly functioning sexual instinct, how much more of a burden it must be for those whose sexual impulses are disordered.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Not quite. In my understanding, a persistent homosexual orientation is disqualifying for entry into seminary.

A man may have had same sex attraction in the past, and even have engaged in homosexual activities (if it was transitory or in his youth), but he needs to have overcome that orientation before he enters seminary.

God Bless

That is incorrect.

 

[RevDrNorth]

The issue is not really about sexual preference, since heterosexual men can be equally promiscuous. Deep seated homosexuality refers to a particular lifestyle that obviously involves homosexual activity.

Just as a playboy is not a good candidate for the priesthood, neither is a homosexual playboy.

Chastity is part of the Christian vocation, not only the priesthood or religiosu life. What the Church is looking for is men who live a chaste life

As for lust, that can be tricky, because the definition often gets obscured by temptations. They are not the same. Everyone experiences temptations. Lust is a constant state of mind, gay or straight.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR

Fr. Henri Nouwen (a scholar, humanitarian and spiritual giant) is an example of a man who lived a celibate life and was by all accounts completely faithful to his priestly vows. Wonderful and deep writer. It was discovered after his death (noted in his journals) and known only by a few that he had a homosexual orientation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Nouwen

As Brother JR points out ALL are called to lived chaste lives. This certainly goes beyond the clergy and religious. All of us are called to live our lives in obedience to the gospel and in faithfulness to our state of life. This means not only physical expressions but our thought lives as well. It is the thought life that though it may manifest itself, it is largely hidden to our fellow human beings. It is where a great many of us have work to do.

 

[kyria]

[QUOT

E=JReducation;5142252]The issue is not really about sexual preference, since heterosexual men can be equally promiscuous. Deep seated homosexuality refers to a particular lifestyle that obviously involves homosexual activity.

I don’t believe deep seated just refers to those who practice it. Just because someone doesn’t engage in same sex relations, does not mean they also aren’t deep seated homosexual in their orientation.

What the Church is looking for is men who live a chaste life

The Church isn’t looking for just chaste men. She is also looking for men who don’t view themselves as gay.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Ok, thats fair enough. So…(and I’m sorry to be so dense, but the conversation came up again today), a man with same sex attraction, if completely celibate, may be able to be ordained?

LDN Catholic:

According to the Vatican (Training for Priestly Celibacy), it would depend upon how long the man “with same sex attraction” had been “completely celibate”. and, We’re talking YEARS, not MONTHS.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael