Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[Dakota_Roberts]

snip

by science standards the two studies are mindbogglingly flawed, they have a total of six (6) critical flaws, even one of which is fatal. No accurate information can be derived from them.

Look it up yourself. The church says its a MENTAL disorder NOT a moral one. Look I dont like to fight. I am sorry for fighting with you. It is obvious we will not agree. Have a nice day!

CCC:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

CCC:

Castitas et homosexualitas

2357 Homosexualitas relationes designat inter viros vel mulieres qui sexualem experiuntur allectationem exclusive vel praevalenter erga eiusdem sexus personas. Per saecula et culturas, formas induit valde diversas. Eius psychica origo manet magna ex parte non explicata. Traditio, sacra nitens Scriptura, quae eos tamquam graves depravationes praesentat, 238 semper declaravit « actus homosexualitatis suapte intrinseca natura esse inordinatos ». 239 Legi naturali sunt contrarii. Actum sexualem dono praecludunt vitae. E vera complementaritate affectiva et sexuali non procedunt. Nullo in casu possent accipere approbationem.

2358 Virorum et mulierum numerus non exiguus tendentias homosexuales praesentat profunde radicatas. Haec propensio, obiective inordinata, pro maiore eorum parte constituit probationem. Excipiendi sunt observantia, compassione et suavitate. Relate ad eos vitandum est quodlibet iniustae discriminationis signum. Hae personae vocantur ad voluntatem Dei in sua vita efficiendam, et, si ipsae christianae sunt, ad coniungendas cum Sacrificio crucis Domini difficultates quas in facto suae condicionis possunt invenire.

2359 Personae homosexuales ad castitatem vocantur. Ipsae, dominii virtutibus quae libertatem educant interiorem, quandoque amicitiae gratuitae auxilio, oratione et gratia sacramentali, possunt et debent ad perfectionem christianam gradatim et obfirmate appropinquare.

Contra castitatem offensae

2351 Luxuria est inordinata cupiditas vel intemperans delectatio voluptatis venereae. Voluptas sexualis moraliter est inordinata, cum per se ipsam quaeritur, a procreationis et unionis dissociata finibus.

2352 Masturbationis nomine intelligere oportet voluntariam organorum genitalium excitationem, ad obtinendam ex ea veneream voluptatem. « Revera tum Ecclesiae Magisterium — per decursum constantis traditionis — tum moralis christifidelium sensus sine dubitatione firmiter tenent masturbationem esse actum intrinsece graviterque **inordinatum **». « Quaecumque est ipsa agendi causa, deliberatus usus facultatis sexualis extra rectum coniugale commercium essentialiter eius fini contradicit ». Delectatio sexualis tunc quaeritur extra relationem sexualem, « quae ordine morali postulatur, quae nempe ad effectum deducit integrum sensum mutuae donationis ac humanae procreationis in contextu veri amoris ». 236

Ad aequum iudicium de responsabilitate morali subiectorum efformandum et ad pastoralem actionem recte ducendam, perpendentur immaturitas affectiva, vis habituum contractorum, angustiae status vel alia elementa psychica vel socialia, quae possunt moralem minuere, fortasse etiam ad minimum reducere, culpabilitatem.

2385 Divortium suam indolem pravam etiam habet ex inordinatione quam in familiarem cellulam introducit et in societatem. Haec inordinatio damna gravia secum fert: pro coniuge, qui se derelictum invenit; pro filiis, parentum separatione profunde vulneratis, et saepe subiectis contentione inter eosdem; propter suum contagionis effectum, qui ex eo veram plagam efficit socialem.

The term the CCC uses to describe homosexuality as disordered is used to describe Lust, Masturbation and Divorce, either all or none of these are mental disorders, pick your poison mate

 

[Zundrah]

Have you tried private messages? Sometimes the Ask an Apologist thead won’t get an answer because a question has been addressed repeatedly BUT they are generally very good about answering private messages.

Yes you’re right, there is a list of asked questions somewhere isn’t there? Or maybe that was another forum I went to.

 

[Johnny760]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

Like the other question I posted, (for the most part) it was treated with the utmost respect and I would like to thank you for that.

And I didn’t mean to be harsh in any way by my closing comment “I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.”, but every time I asked this question to a member of the church, it has been brushed aside and has been lift unanswered.*

 

[Zundrah]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

Like the other question I posted, (for the most part) it was treated with the utmost respect and I would like to thank you for that.

And I didn’t mean to be harsh in any way by my closing comment “I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.”, but every time I asked this question to a member of the church, it has been brushed aside and has been lift unanswered.*

You oppose this very Catholic doctrine but the thing is Johnny, it will never change.

Catholicism is something therefore that you will never be able to fully comply with.

 

[rhiannonh]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

Like the other question I posted, (for the most part) it was treated with the utmost respect and I would like to thank you for that.

And I didn’t mean to be harsh in any way by my closing comment “I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.”, but every time I asked this question to a member of the church, it has been brushed aside and has been lift unanswered.*

It doesn’t matter what others think… What matters is that you Know that God Loves You. :hug1:

 

[michelleds]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

Like the other question I posted, (for the most part) it was treated with the utmost respect and I would like to thank you for that.

And I didn’t mean to be harsh in any way by my closing comment “I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.”, but every time I asked this question to a member of the church, it has been brushed aside and has been lift unanswered.*

Johnny there are Catholics who are SSA attracted and living fulfilled happy chaste lives. Look to those people as role models not the world.

 

[Elizabeth502]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

No, because the only proper physical love is the exclusive and convenantal love between two consenting adults of different sexes whose state in life permits such physicality. That is the only objectively, permanently, intrinsically healthy, blessed, and sacred union ordained by God from eternity. Subjecively, any individual may “feel” very differnt about that, may “perceive” differently, but no individual can legitimately create his or her own moral universe. Otherwise, there are no boundaries. Examples:

~Some adults seriously feel fine about copulating with children. That is their (perverse) concept of “love.” It feels as much like love to them, subjectively, as the union of a healthy adult man and a healthy adult woman feels to that couple. Such a person “has never known anything different.” Many a person “has always felt that way.”

~Some married adult heterosexuals similarly consummate relationships with someone other than their spouse, “feeling” and “experiencing” that such love affairs are far more psychologically healthy than their current relationships with their spouses. And third-party observers may confirm that that these individuals appear happier when with their non-spouses than with their spouses. But objectively speaking, the illicit affairs are not “love,” but the fruit of deception, rationalization, and even hatred.

I could give plenty of non-sexual examples as well (which would obviously apply to all people of any orientation). In all these examples, we human beings justify our immoral actions based on distorted perceptions, based on emotion, based on questionable “confirmation” from popular contemporary opinion, and finally…based on the clever mental manipulations of the Devil – variously called, the Evil One, the Enemy, the Fallen Angel, etc.

 

[rhiannonh]

It doesn’t matter what others think… What matters is that you Know that God Loves You. :hug1:

 

[Elizabeth502]

It doesn’t matter what others think

Correct. It matters what God thinks, and God speaks through the Church His Son founded. “Others” can tell us, and do tell us, that lots of things we do are harmless and even holy.

God has spoken on this issue. And the Church has echoed that speech.

 

[saveusfromhell]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

the question is, if being an avtive homosexual is more important to you than loving christ and taking up your cross for him. correct we are creatures of love designed to give this love to God, christ got up on the cross for us and he asks each of us to do the same for him but we have free will…
catholic teaching is that any sexual act that is not open to the conecption of a child in the family is sinful. while gays have a serious problen with this because from a secular view it descriminates against them, i to have serious problems adhering to it. masturbation contraception abortion living in sin getting remarried without an annulment, fantising about other women while having sex with your partner all violate this.
i struggle daily with my own cross some days i fall yet i keep trying.
God Bless

 

[Hypnotoad]

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny

Actually my friend at the end of the day it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. The Catholic Church is against impure acts PERIOD. Your sexual orientation, race, and gender have nothing to do with it. If you were heterosexual and wanted to practice sex before marriage, anal sex, or any other form of sexual act outside of Gods law then they (the Catholic Church) would likewise be against those unions as well. In fact the heterosexuals that are prone to sex acts outside of God’s commandment are just as much called to a life of celibacy as homosexuals.

The rules apply to everyone and this is because the Church is against SIN, not sinners. Regardless of the fact that you have SSA you still have the ability to chose how you act.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

First of all, I would like to thank each of you for each response.

Being a homosexual, the general answer here is to live a chaste, single life. I strongly disagree with this. We are creatures of love, and why shouldn’t I be able to give and receive this love to a man?

To quote an early response, because I said I was Born This Way, it was a ‘cop out’. By no means was it. I tried to change the way I was orientated. I wasn’t happy with who I was because of what the Catholic Church (in which I was a very active member) told me.

I’m not looking for a ‘cure’, I don’t need to be. So it’s ok for me to feel these attractions to men, but I shall never act upon a most basic human instinct, and god help me if I do…

I’m sick of the stigmatisation and the victimisation which stems from those passages in Levictus (which can be interpreted in many ways) which leads to the playground bullying, the hate crimes and social exclusion.

Like the other question I posted, (for the most part) it was treated with the utmost respect and I would like to thank you for that.

And I didn’t mean to be harsh in any way by my closing comment “I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.”, but every time I asked this question to a member of the church, it has been brushed aside and has been lift unanswered.*

Love does not require sex to be expressed. Do you know how often Joseph and May engaged in sex? Zero, zip, nada and yet they are up held as model spouses…

People don’t need sex, but they do need to feel loved; sex is unnecessary for intimacy.

The Church frowns on bullying of anyone. God loves you; God is Love.

I think this article by Ron Belgau might help you.

 

[Angel7]

You oppose this very Catholic doctrine but the thing is Johnny, it will never change.

Catholicism is something therefore that you will never be able to fully comply with.

FALSE. I actualy find this comment to be offensive, and in Johny’s position I would be deeply hurt. Forgive me if I come to conclusions off of 1 comment that You may have intended to mean something else by, but it sounds like an anti-Catholic Agenda

You make it sound like he can never be a full or good catholic just because he has such inclinations.

Sorry if I was harsh

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Love does not require sex to be expressed. Do you know how often Joseph and May engaged in sex? Zero, zip, nada and yet they are up held as model spouses…

People don’t need sex, but they do need to feel loved; sex is unnecessary for intimacy.

So you think that falling in love with another man is normal and that one should pursue those feelings?

 

[Zundrah]

FALSE. I actualy find this comment to be offensive, and in Johny’s position I would be deeply hurt. Forgive me if I come to conclusions off of 1 comment that You may have intended to mean something else by, but it sounds like an anti-Catholic Agenda

What do you think I intended to mean?

You make it sound like he can never be a full or good catholic just because he has such inclinations.

Don’t threat, Angel7. I’ve read many of his post and you will see that he rejects a lot of the Churches teachings but he remains within the Church.

What I should have said maybe was "Johny do you ever intend of letting go of your thoughts and views and then just accept what the Church you attach yourself to teaches.

It’s not always easy to say what you think in a perfect manner. I meant no aggression or negativity by it.

Sorry if I was harsh

Yes you were, emotional even. But you are all entitled to speak how you feel.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

MIndOverMatter

**So you think that falling in love with another man is normal and that one should pursue those feelings? **

Within limits intimacy between men is good and should be pursued. I have known several men with whom I have had the closest possible friendship without thinking once that it could become sexual. To understand this you would have to have had the experience yourself.

I suspect that Jesus had an intimate relationship with the apostle John, loving him in the way that a father would love his son. That can be very intimate. It is interesting that in some ways the Gospel of John is more “loving” toward Jesus than any other. He felt the great loive and Jesus, never forgot it, and returned to it in his writings.

I believe many priests and sisters have very intimate relations of friendship that are also very chaste. I have observed some of these great friendships from afar, and I think they are not the least bit homosexual.

 

[Allegra]

FALSE. I actualy find this comment to be offensive, and in Johny’s position I would be deeply hurt. Forgive me if I come to conclusions off of 1 comment that You may have intended to mean something else by, but it sounds like an anti-Catholic Agenda

You make it sound like he can never be a full or good catholic just because he has such inclinations.

Sorry if I was harsh

I think the poster meant that he can’t really be in communion with the Church if he continues with his lifestyle and professing his opinion that there is no sin in homosexuality. I don’t think Zundrah was trying to say that Johnny couldn’t be Catholic is he has a attraction to males. At least that is not what I got from that post.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

MIndOverMatter

**So you think that falling in love with another man is normal and that one should pursue those feelings? **

Within limits intimacy between men is good and should be pursued. I have known several men with whom I have had the closest possible friendship without thinking once that it could become sexual. To understand this you would have to have had the experience yourself.

I suspect that Jesus had an intimate relationship with the apostle John, loving him in the way that a father would love his son. That can be very intimate. It is interesting that in some ways the Gospel of John is more “loving” toward Jesus than any other. He felt the great loive and Jesus, never forgot it, and returned to it in his writings.

I believe many priests and sisters have very intimate relations of friendship that are also very chaste. I have observed some of these great friendships from afar, and I think they are not the least bit homosexual.

Yeah, i have no problem with brotherly love; which i thought was an entirely different thing to falling in love. Its precisely that kind of “brotherly love” that i seek in my brothers; and its not fair to equate that with Gay Love. Or perhaps i am wrong. Perhaps the only reason two male heterosexual best friends are not “in love” with each-other is because they lack sexual attraction toward one-another?

But the Church tells people with SSA to seek disinterested relationships with people of the same sex. For example, be friends with people who you are not sexually attracted to, especially if they have SSA themselves. Am i wrong about that?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

MindOverMatter

**But the Church tells people with SSA to seek disinterested relationships with people of the same sex. For example, be friends with people who you are not sexually attracted to, especially if they have SSA themselves. Am i wrong about that? **

I guess that should apply to everyone. If I am sexually attracted to a woman other than my wife, I should stay clear of her. But if I am attracted to her in a platonic way, my wife would not object … especially if the woman is not good looking.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

But if I am attracted to her in a platonic way, my wife would not object … especially if the woman is not good looking.

You bet your *** she got to look very unattractive