Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[kch86]

I never asumed he hated homosexuals, this is directed to thos who believe that God is disgusted by them and hates them. In my belief, god loves everyone, and everything, even those people who were born to sexually attracted to other things rather than the opposite sex and the only thing that he objects to is the sins we have done in our lives.

Your beliefs are absolutely correct and in line with true Catholic teaching.

Catholic teaching further states that people who act on their sexual attraction towards anyone, outside of the sacrament of marriage, offend God. This applies to homosexuals and heterosexuals equally.

 

[jesusmylover]

Hey Johnny My Friend,

I had a message for you : You are LOVED and WANTED by God.
He LOVES you as you are, and he just asks to to present yourself to him as you are.

If you are gay, you are called to live a christian life. The church not says that you will go to the evil, he just says that we all have to live a christian life with god in the centre. It’s the same message for all people : heterosexuals, homosexuals…
The church asks to all the christian communities to pay attention with gay people, to accept them because they are loved and to integrate them in different communities.

But in our different communities you have humans, so where are humans, there are incomprehensions… I’m persuaded that God will first judges you on the way you have lived your orientation, more that your orientation in itself.

Who am i to judge you or other people with their sexuality? Just put your faith in god and follow him my friend. It’s the more important.

God bless you.

 

[da_nolo]

The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny

Hello Johnny.
I would like to understand how or where the Church has stated that you (as a person) are ‘evil’?
mostly why or how you think it does. yes I am serious. if you have already - then perhaps tell me about it so I may find and read it.

Simply because something done is wrong, doesn’t mean the person is necessarily evil or perceived as such. I grew up being a bully. does that mean I was evil? I don’t think so and the Church never explained it as such to me (Teachings explained to me don’t express it as such).

Such teaching do explain that an active life in lust is wrong. what is lust? abuse or perverse of sexuality. There are many reasons why: it affects physical health, mental health, but most important our spiritual health (our relationship with God - as it separates us from Him). This all begins by being active or overly active in sexual tendencies/practices that results are for personal pleasure instead of acting towards a communion or life’s preservation (a single way to putting it which may not be ‘taught’ by the Church but is as I perceive).

A part of sexual orientation is being active in sexual tendencies/practices. it is not simply being attracted to a male or female (due to what ever reason - most commonly physical). To know for sure one is a certain orientation - one would as most commonly does perform some act to acknowledge such orientation. This is undoubtedly done before marriage (which Catholics view as sacred and the physical connection -sex or sexual actions- should be kept for it). For it is not just your attraction or attention towards males but the actions with that must be accepted in order to be homosexual.

So it seems to be a catch 22. In order to be you must partake in it, but if you do you partake in what is already considered sinful or wrong within even heterosexuals. Unless you view it possible to be attracted to a person and not partake in sexual desires - which I have noticed more Catholics suggesting; living an abstinent life (with out sex).

---

Now about that suicide march. They are not killing themselves due to peers (kids in their schools or around them) bullying them - which I assure you no kid is saying, “your evil cause the Catholic Church says so”. even if they were - the bully would be wrong.

The Catholic Church follows Jesus in teaching peace and loving your neighbor and enemy; not whom ever you feel.

Such things make a kids insecure and feel worthless. As stated before I was a bully, but also a kid who was bullied. I have the special knowledge of both hells. That’s right; both hells. I can confidently say that the fact that a person is ‘gay’ or black or white or what ever is the actual reason towards being called names or such.

I called and was called gay for several years. the kids said it to were not gay, nor was I. yet it was still said. majority cases, this is whats going on. the purpose in bullying is to single out a person, make them stand out in a not so fun and bad way. to feel different so they do not fit in. the reasons why are different, but the over all result/action is the same. even the words used will not always be same.

If only I had listened to and understood Catholic teaching - which majority people don’t - I would not have stooped so low.

 

[Rocky24]

Homosexuals are not evil, only what they do is evil. The Catholic Church in no way judges homosexuals because that is God’s job. The Holy Catholic Church provides sinners with the teachings of Christ. We do not condemn the person, only the act. That is official catholic teaching and any catholic that meanly judges a homasexual isn’t doing the right thing. The Church seeks only to spread the truth that Christ gave us. You can look it up in the catechism here: catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality
Jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies

 

[Wanttobefree]

Hey Johnny and everyone,

I too struggle with homosexuality/SSA. I agree with almost everything Kch has said. I am trying to live a chaste life with the hope of reaching Heaven and I know that I am loved for who I am and it’s my actions/choices that are displeasing to God.

I have had good experiences with understanding priests in confession when I confess sins relating to SSA. I am not out to anyone though either my family or my friends and I worry all the time about my future and how long I can keep this hidden.

One thing I will say about Johnny’s post however, is that although I haven’t been called “evil” etc, I sometimes feel that Catholic people just don’t understand the level of suffering people with SSA experience and can sometimes be dismissive of it. It has sometimes been compared to alcohol or drug addiction, hetero adultery etc as if having SSA fits with these other vices.

I have been thinking about homosexuality and the Church a lot lately and I think that it is wrong to compare SSA with these other afflictions. Being homosexual and Catholic is, I believe, one of the hardest and most depressing “crosses” in the world. The feeling of knowing that you can never feel proper love or never have a family and will live in a constant state of loneliness and despair for the rest of your life is quite overwhelming. I know there are many single people in the world but this is not the same. They always can live in hope. For us there is very little, or no hope. Trying to reconcile your faith with your sexual inclinations (that you really really feel you were sometimes born with) is so extremely difficult.

In my own situation, I know I have SSA and nobody else does. I know that if I were to come out I would lose my Catholic family (they just would not understand) and most of my Catholic friends (some would understand but would be wierded out) my relationships with my secular friends would change forever (they would be tolerant but I know that it would change the dynamics of our friendships irreversibly), I can’t marry a man and I can’t marry a woman, I do have some gay friends but I do not approve of their lifestyle so I am not very close to them and would not ever hang out with just them. That leaves you pretty much alone. And that is not good.

I strive to be a faithful Catholic. I really do. I don’t think the Church should change it’s teaching on homosexuality. But I do think more resources or support or general understanding of people in situations such as mine should be out there. Suicide was mentioned here already, I am testament to the fact that trying to reconcile your faith with SSA can sometimes be so unbelievably overwhelming that this seems like the only answer. I would hope people wouldn’t doubt that because I’ve lived it.

Thanks for listening.

 

[mitex]

There are some people who insist a homosexual orientation is sinful. If there was one thing that I got out of RCIA it was that being a homosexual is in itself not sinful.

The Church judges everything by behavior.

I keep telling that to the supporters of the good doctor rolleyes Joseph Nicolosi. But they never seem to take a hint.

I await the day eagerly when Nicolosi, NARTH, are repudiated by the Church.

I think ministries towards people with homosexual attractions should be based on the Los Angeles Archdiocese model.

 

[mitex]

There are some people who insist a homosexual orientation is sinful. If there was one thing that I got out of RCIA it was that being a homosexual is in itself not sinful.

The Church judges everything by behavior.

I keep telling that to the supporters of the good doctor rolleyes Joseph Nicolosi. But they never seem to take a hint.

I await the day eagerly when Nicolosi, NARTH, are repudiated by the Church.

I think ministries towards people with homosexual attractions should be based on the Los Angeles Archdiocese model.

It’s right here

 

[InSearchofGrace]

There are some people who insist a homosexual orientation is sinful. If there was one thing that I got out of RCIA it was that being a homosexual is in itself not sinful.

You must not be talking about some Catholic posters nor ‘some people’ in this forum. There was only one in this forum who insisted that homosexual orientation or attraction is by itself sinful and that poster is sedevacantist.

The Church judges everything by behavior.

Lusting in one’s heart or active lusting is also deemed sinful.

I keep telling that to the supporters of the good doctor rolleyes Joseph Nicolosi. But they never seem to take a hint.

I await the day eagerly when Nicolosi, NARTH, are repudiated by the Church.

Just because Nicolosi’s method of help did not work for you does not mean it is not useful to everyone seeking therapy and/or management of unwanted homosexual behavior.

I think ministries towards people with homosexual attractions should be based on the Los Angeles Archdiocese model.

I’m glad you found something positive about how the Catholic Church reaches out to the lesbian and gay Catholics, which,* nota bene*, is* not affirming* homosexual acts or will ever support gay ‘marriage’ in her works of mercy and ministries.

Not too long ago, you were in RCIA and joined CAF. You dropped out of RCIA and decided to return to the Episcopalian / Anglican Church, which according to you, honors diversity and accepts pluralism. You stayed in the forum, however, proclaiming your stance that see-saws between criticising the Catholic Church in one breath and supporting the CC in another breath.

Just a month ago following are your exact words / quotes in a related thread.

I’ve just stopped caring one way or the other. Even in places where same-sex marriage is illegal they’re still performing marriages and holy unions in affirming Churches.

I say let them. Love is love. There will be weddings regardless of official recognition or not.

Now the good people of CAF will disagree with me but I stand my ground.

Bring on the critics!

…I’m still not changing my beliefs. And the Church does not need to save my soul because I’m already happy and secure in my present beliefs.

The Church has no business sticking its nose in anyone’s bedrooms.

This is not the first time that your positions are crossed and confusing even within the Episcopalian denomination, as one poster has taken you to task for misrepresenting TEC in the thread “Protestants, has the Reformation run its course?”

Had you stuck with RCIA, you might have been inducted into the faith today. However, hope springs eternal, especially in the spirit of Easter and the message of the Risen Christ. May your journey lead you to the Truth.

And may the original poster, who is so wrong about the Catholic Church and her teachings, find the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
,

 

[Corki]

There are some people who insist a homosexual orientation is sinful. If there was one thing that I got out of RCIA it was that being a homosexual is in itself not sinful.

The Church judges everything by behavior.

I keep telling that to the supporters of the good doctor rolleyes Joseph Nicolosi. But they never seem to take a hint.

I await the day eagerly when Nicolosi, NARTH, are repudiated by the Church.

I think ministries towards people with homosexual attractions should be based on the Los Angeles Archdiocese model.

There are two parts to the Church’s teaching on homsexuality. The first is that it isn’t a sin to have homosexual attractions but acting on them is gravely wrong. That’s the part of Church teaching that the LA model focuses on - as does the outreach in most dioceses.

But the other part of Church teaching is that homosexuality is a disordered orientation which is a hard cross for many to bear. The NARTH program addresses that aspect. If it is possible, via therapy or some other means, to lighten the cross that our homosexual brothers carry, what right do we have to dismiss it out of hand? Maybe NARTH is effective, maybe not. But it is an attempt to help and that is worthy.

 

[Bballer32]

Plain and Simple right here…

Having attractions to the same sex… venial sin (can be forgiven by going to a Mass)

Performing the acts of homosexuality… mortal sin and IMPURE

(the above is the same as…)

Performing masturbation… mortal sin and IMPURE

Premarital sex… mortal sin and IMPURE

Overall lesson…

If you are conscience of the mortal sin and do not confess it, then you may have a very unhappy talk with God on the Judgement Throne… unless of course you confess before death, then your set and ready to go…

Just sayin

 

[Qoeleth]

What I suggest you do is to find a nice, attractive girl. Spend some time with her. Maybe have some physical intimacy, without crossing the line into fornication. Sometimes, family relationships cause homosexuality- maybe spend less time with your parents and siblings.

Studies show orientations are flexible. You might find that it will put you on a new path.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Johnny760,

Welcome to CAF

I read your post and the post of the others in providing you with truly appropriate and compassionate comments. But, you are looking for a ‘rebuttal’ and I think this presents a problem for both of us.

From my understanding of your posts - you really do not understand the position of the Catholic Church, and several have tried to explain it to you - and, did what I think is a very good job. It honestly does appear that you have not really addressed this issue in a mature manner so that there is a clear description and distinction between liberty and license.

The poster who recommended that you look at the Episcopal church may have been on to something here. The issue however is not to recommend another group that simply endorses whatever you want to do while claiming to be following Christ - who really did condemn ALL immoraity. I think the real issue is for you to understand just what the Catholic Church is (the only Church founded by Jesus Christ) and what it teaches - and once you get that firmly established then make up your mind on just what it is you want do and how you want to live your life.

The Catholic Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit ever since that very first Pentecost Sunday - and God did not abandon His Church. There is a profound confusion on the part of many who claim to be Christian as to just what types of behaviors are acceptable - and which are condemned. There, honestly, is no reason for this confusion. There was a time when no one even dreamed of stem cell research - but, it seems like there was never a time when homosexuality the topic starts in Genesis 19 where we have the immoral behavior of the people in Sodom. St. Paul is quite clear about the condemnation of immoral behavior in his first chapter to the Romans. But, no one is addressing orientation.

Please give this matter prayer and thought as you continue to cooperate with the Grace of God. I would recommend you make an apointment to talk to your parish priest since you have serious concerns in several areas.

I would like to recommend that all on this list pray for Johnny760.

God bless

The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny

 

[Brofessor]

No its not. The church states people who are gay are not necessarily sinful but are sick. Morally sick is not sick its just being a bad person.

I am a queer man, and I heartily disagree with you when you say we are “just bad people”. Please be more sensitive next time.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Marianna,

Would you kindly provide a reference for where the Church addresses homosexuals as “…bad persons…”? Thanks.

God bless

No its not. The church states people who are gay are not necessarily sinful but are sick. Morally sick is not sick its just being a bad person.

 

[oldbrit2009]

Hey Johnny and everyone,

I too struggle with homosexuality/SSA. I agree with almost everything Kch has said. I am trying to live a chaste life with the hope of reaching Heaven and I know that I am loved for who I am and it’s my actions/choices that are displeasing to God.

I have had good experiences with understanding priests in confession when I confess sins relating to SSA. I am not out to anyone though either my family or my friends and I worry all the time about my future and how long I can keep this hidden.

One thing I will say about Johnny’s post however, is that although I haven’t been called “evil” etc, I sometimes feel that Catholic people just don’t understand the level of suffering people with SSA experience and can sometimes be dismissive of it. It has sometimes been compared to alcohol or drug addiction, hetero adultery etc as if having SSA fits with these other vices.

I have been thinking about homosexuality and the Church a lot lately and I think that it is wrong to compare SSA with these other afflictions. Being homosexual and Catholic is, I believe, one of the hardest and most depressing “crosses” in the world. The feeling of knowing that you can never feel proper love or never have a family and will live in a constant state of loneliness and despair for the rest of your life is quite overwhelming. I know there are many single people in the world but this is not the same. They always can live in hope. For us there is very little, or no hope. Trying to reconcile your faith with your sexual inclinations (that you really really feel you were sometimes born with) is so extremely difficult.

In my own situation, I know I have SSA and nobody else does. I know that if I were to come out I would lose my Catholic family (they just would not understand) and most of my Catholic friends (some would understand but would be wierded out) my relationships with my secular friends would change forever (they would be tolerant but I know that it would change the dynamics of our friendships irreversibly), I can’t marry a man and I can’t marry a woman, I do have some gay friends but I do not approve of their lifestyle so I am not very close to them and would not ever hang out with just them. That leaves you pretty much alone. And that is not good.

I strive to be a faithful Catholic. I really do. I don’t think the Church should change it’s teaching on homosexuality. But I do think more resources or support or general understanding of people in situations such as mine should be out there. Suicide was mentioned here already, I am testament to the fact that trying to reconcile your faith with SSA can sometimes be so unbelievably overwhelming that this seems like the only answer. I would hope people wouldn’t doubt that because I’ve lived it.

Thanks for listening.

God Bless you, wanttobefree for being so honest and open. Please be assured of my prayers.

 

[oldbrit2009]

Plain and Simple right here…

Having attractions to the same sex… venial sin (can be forgiven by going to a Mass)

Performing the acts of homosexuality… mortal sin and IMPURE

(the above is the same as…)

Performing masturbation… mortal sin and IMPURE

Premarital sex… mortal sin and IMPURE

Overall lesson…

If you are conscience of the mortal sin and do not confess it, then you may have a very unhappy talk with God on the Judgement Throne… unless of course you confess before death, then your set and ready to go…

Just sayin

Bballer,
You haven’t quite got it right there,
“Having attractions to the same sex… venial sin”
It not not sinful to have a temptation be it same sex attraction or any other. Same sex attraction isn’t some kind of “special” temptation, it’s just a temptation to sin like any other temptation.
The sin is if you dwell on it, let your imagination start to enlarge on it and ultimately acting upon it.

 

[Bballer32]

The sin is if you dwell on it, let your imagination start to enlarge on it and ultimately acting upon it.

What i meant to say for that line was what you said here… sorry

 

[EasterJoy]

Plain and Simple right here…

Having attractions to the same sex… venial sin (can be forgiven by going to a Mass)

Performing the acts of homosexuality… mortal sin and IMPURE

(the above is the same as…)

Performing masturbation… mortal sin and IMPURE

Premarital sex… mortal sin and IMPURE

Overall lesson…

If you are conscience of the mortal sin and do not confess it, then you may have a very unhappy talk with God on the Judgement Throne… unless of course you confess before death, then your set and ready to go…

Just sayin

…you may have a very unhappy talk with God on the Judgement Throne… unless of course you confess before death, then your set and ready to go…Just sayin

A bit flippant, aren’t we? Have you ever been sexually attracted to someone with whom you are in daily contact but whom you can never have, and without any prospect of finding someone you can have? If so, how could you be so callous about this problem? If not, then how so blithe about the burden someone else bears that you do not lift a finger to help with?

It is not a sin to be attracted to someone you may not marry. It is a sin to covet someone you may not marry or to covet an experience or moral choice that is forbidden by moral law, but being tempted and dwelling on a desire to indulge a temptation are not the same thing. The example of the temptation to have a sexual relationship with someone of your own gender is not an exception.

There are none of us who live our lives free of temptation, but some of us are undoubtedly tried far more than others. Compassion and the belief that others do better under worse circumstances and make better use of the graces they receive than we ourselves do is key.

Consider that the Judge at the Throne will be fully conversant on exactly the burden we bore, exactly the amount of grace we had to bear it, and exactly how much help we were to anyone else whose cross was heavy and bearing them down. Anyone who thinks he or she is more “set and ready to go” than someone else bears too much resemblance to the man who prayed “'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity” to feel very easy about that prospect!

 

[andrewstx]

It was I who took Mitex to task for missrepresenting TEC.

But know that I have found this thread I have empathy for him. Life must be a terrible burden and trial for he and others suffering with SSA.

He said that he is now an Evangelical, and the Evangelicals are the most hard on homosexuals of all religions. Consider the “God hates f##s” Baptist preacher from Kansas.

That is the teaching apparently he is getting involved with. No wonder he is confused and depressed.

 

[Lokabrenna]

What I suggest you do is to find a nice, attractive girl. Spend some time with her. Maybe have some physical intimacy, without crossing the line into fornication. Sometimes, family relationships cause homosexuality- maybe spend less time with your parents and siblings.

Studies show orientations are flexible. You might find that it will put you on a new path.

I have a bit of a quibble with that last statement. Yes, there is research that has concluded that many people fall between 1 and 5 on the Kinsey scale, there are people who are definitely “0” (exclusively heterosexual) and “6” (exclusively homosexual) as well as “X” (non-sexual).

I would identify myself as a bi-romantic lesbian, in that I am romantically attracted to men and women, but only sexually attracted to women. Cuddling with a man is a-okay for me, having sex with one? Ew, no thanks. Usually I just refer to myself as a lesbian though, because not a lot of people are familiar with affectional orientation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affectional_orientation

As for family relationships causing homosexuality, um, what? Seriously, I had the most “conventional” upbringing you can have in this society. I have a mom, a dad, two brothers, a dog, and a green picket fence. My parents have been happily married for around 40 years and they’re still going strong, and I have NEVER, EVER been abused in any way, and yeah, we’re close, lots of my heterosexual friends are close to their families too. That argument makes about as much sense as “keeping your family at a distance causes heterosexuality.”