Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

[Dakota_Roberts]

Hi Dakota,

Actually, I thought Leegal gave a very thoughtful and accurate response.

From my understanding of what you wrote, you have totally missed what the Catholic Church teaches - no sex outside of marriage (and there is only marriage between a man and woman). Now, I do not know what you want to accomplish with this appeal to a lack of succor from ‘…men lying with other men like women…’ - but you are really moving in the wrong direction.

None of us know what ‘…thorn for the flesh…’ St. Paul had - but, we do know the answer when he appealed to God for relief - and you can find it in 2Cor 12:9-10. This is important because if we get caught up in the emotionalism of the moment - we all will miss the very nature of our humanity. Men can love other men - WITHOUT taking each other to bed. Men can also love women - WITHOUT taking them to bed, too. Sex is a gift of God that allows us alone to join Him in pro-Creation - something not given to the angels.

As you probably guessed, God did not consult anyone on how He would create. These are the cards we all have been dealt - and with His Grace, we will play the best hand. The really good news is that there is an excellent document which goes a long way to explaining why the Church is Correct in this and other matters. Here is the link: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html Note, this is serious reading and not a substitute for an after dinner brandy.

God bless

I know and agree with the Catholic position. I was pointing out that heterosexuals who will not end up marrying at least have the illusion that they have the possibility of marrying, having kids and other stereotypes of a happy life whereas someone who is only attracted to the same sex does not get this happy fantasy to sustain them through trying times. If chaste they can neither pursue the modern concept of happiness nor can they experience the idyllic 1950s fantasy of many Catholics. In other words they are forever outsiders looking in through frosted glass in the cold. But who knows, perhaps by experiencing purgation on Earth quasi-voluntarily they’ll come out ahead.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I was pointing out that heterosexuals who will not end up marrying at least have the illusion that they have the possibility of marrying, having kids and other stereotypes of a happy life

Illusions are just that, Dakota. They are fantasies, and fantasies do not ultimately satisfy. They also bring with them great danger of disappointment. The differential between the illusion and the reality has the potential of creating despair and bitterness.

The fact remains that those who cannot find a satisfying relationship (and who seek that) live with their deprivation just as much if they are heterosexual or homosexual. For example, those who are divorced, who have sought an annulment but been denied, will always live deprived of a future consummated romantic relationship, if they stay in communion with the Church.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Elizabeth502

Well said!

While there are various illusions many of us combat - advocating for illusions (and the ultimate personal disaster they bring) seems to me to be oiling the path leading to the slippery slope

St. Paul had his problems - and he addressed them with the Grace of God because God told him that His Grace was sufficient. Paul did not seek comfort in illusions - and, I think he sets the example for all of us.

God bless

Illusions are just that, Dakota. They are fantasies, and fantasies do not ultimately satisfy. They also bring with them great danger of disappointment. The differential between the illusion and the reality has the potential of creating despair and bitterness.

The fact remains that those who cannot find a satisfying relationship (and who seek that) live with their deprivation just as much if they are heterosexual or homosexual. For example, those who are divorced, who have sought an annulment but been denied, will always live deprived of a future consummated romantic relationship, if they stay in communion with the Church.

 

[Wanttobefree]

I agree with Dakota. As someone living the celibate life, let me tell you that even having an “illusion” or hope would serve me well right now. The feelings of loneliness and despair are so intense that I have had to start medication and I am only in my twenties. “Brotherhood” is also hard, when you’re not “out” to your family and friends it makes it so difficult to be around people when you’re shielding such a big part of your life. And you know that if they were to find out, you would lose them as friends, or at least lose the type of friendship you currently have. I know it is only a matter of time however before it all comes to the surface. I dread that day.

I wouldn’t wish this life on my worst enemy. I can’t imagine anything worse right now. I know everyone on this thread pretty much agrees with the Church’s teaching on homosexuality etc and you think you understand it but it is a very different story when you’re living it.

Please stop equating us to single/unmarried/divorced heteros this is NOT the same. This is an affliction that we have to bear and struggle with for the rest of our lives. It is not the same as just being single.

Close your eyes. Imagine for a minute that you are going to be unhappy every day for the rest of your life and you are facing this unhappiness alone. This is what I feel. I can predict people’s responses of building a relationship with Jesus to not feel alone etc etc and believe me I am trying but it’s hard when you feel like He is not helping.

 

[Leegal]

I agree with Dakota. As someone living the celibate life, let me tell you that even having an “illusion” or hope would serve me well right now. The feelings of loneliness and despair are so intense that I have had to start medication and I am only in my twenties. “Brotherhood” is also hard, when you’re not “out” to your family and friends it makes it so difficult to be around people when you’re shielding such a big part of your life. And you know that if they were to find out, you would lose them as friends, or at least lose the type of friendship you currently have. I know it is only a matter of time however before it all comes to the surface. I dread that day.

I wouldn’t wish this life on my worst enemy. I can’t imagine anything worse right now. I know everyone on this thread pretty much agrees with the Church’s teaching on homosexuality etc and you think you understand it but it is a very different story when you’re living it.

Please stop equating us to single/unmarried/divorced heteros this is NOT the same. This is an affliction that we have to bear and struggle with for the rest of our lives. It is not the same as just being single.

Close your eyes. Imagine for a minute that you are going to be unhappy every day for the rest of your life and you are facing this unhappiness alone. This is what I feel. I can predict people’s responses of building a relationship with Jesus to not feel alone etc etc and believe me I am trying but it’s hard when you feel like He is not helping.

But are you not setting yourself up by thinking that life has to be unhappy because of something you cannot fulfill or live out? You assume by imagining that every day for the rest of your life will be unhappy. You are fulfilling your own prophecy – the prophecy that homosexual orientation, lived according to the teachings of the Church, is an unhappy life when one cannot live a different life that they imagine. But the sports star who is rendered a paraplegic or quadriplegic due to an accident finds a way to deal with the new circumstances of his/her life. He/she has no choice or say in the matter. The woman who is rendered infertile also has to know that the life she imagined will never be what she had hoped for. They are “living it” too, it’s just a different burden.

We don’t get to play it out both ways. I did not get to see if marriage and children (fertility) would have made me happier, so assuming so only leads to an illusion that it would have been. You do not get to play out being of both orientations to see which one would make you happier. You really do have to play the hand you are dealt. Illusions lead to unhappiness, because they are only illusions – the illusion that someone else has it “better” or “easier.” I don’t know that heteros are any happier or unhappier than homosexuals either. We simply don’t know why people and things happen the way they do.

I’m sorry you cannot be “out.” I would be sorry to hear that your friends and family might reject you if they knew. Maybe you would find people to be more understanding and accepting. Maybe not, as I do not know them.

I do know that we accept what is God’s Will and Plan and then live according to His teachings. When we fight against God’s Plan, we are unhappy.

I’m not trying to be facetious or negate your struggle. You are right – I don’t know what it’s like to be a young homosexual man. But you don’t know everyone else either – and the things they struggled with, the things they thought they wanted and never got, the things they got that they wished they never had. It’s everyone – we all have something.

God Bless.

 

[toosan1967]

Instead Catholics prance around like faeries saying that oh if they only go through reparative therapy everything will be all better and then they’ll be attracted to the opposite sex and this heavy cross wil magically go away.

Hi, Dakota:
I think you may have the Catholic church mixed up with the far-right fundamentalist Baptists and Evangelicals. I haven’t heard lately that the Catholic church takes a positive position on ‘reparative therapy’. Help me if I missed that. Anyone.

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

While there are various illusions many of us combat - advocating for illusions (and the ultimate personal disaster they bring) seems to me to be oiling the path leading to the slippery slope

tqualey, while I cannot speak for Dakota, I think his remarks regarding illusions are coming completely from his perspective and are being slightly misconstrued. That is to say, from the perspective of one for whom having a partner with whom one could share a life is impossible, any hope for such a partner is purely illusory and delusional: the dream of a partnership is merely a painful dream which must be rejected, suppressed, dismissed or destroyed. For one for whom such a partnership is possible, however, the dream has a chance of coming true–it is neither illusory nor delusional for such a person to hope that what is now possible may some day become actual. If I’ve misrepresented Dakota here, I’m sure he will let us know.

It seems to me that the bind in which many faithful Roman Catholic homosexuals find themselves has to do with the consciousness that human beings grow and develop best when they are in relationship with one another. Part of being and growing into the fullness of one’s humanity involves being in relationship and in community with others. It’s not for nothing that the image given to us of Heaven in John’s Apocalypse is of a City. It’s not for nothing that the many members of the Church are the One mystical Body of Christ. Being in relationship is fundamental to human nature. And desiring a partner with whom one can completely share one’s life is a desire which is part of that fundamental human impulse toward relationship and community.

So to recognize that we more fully become what we are meant to be in loving relationship with others, but to know or believe that the possibility of the most loving, the most complete partnership of which we are capable with another human being is fundamentally denied us feels very much like someone or something is saying, “It is right for you to want to be in relationship with a loving partner because that’s human nature and that’s good. Good job! At the same time, though, your desire for a loving partnership is completely wrong–consequently, it’s impossible for you to fully participate in the human adventure.” The message is felt as both a “yes” and a “no” at the same time–as if one’s humanity is being both affirmed and denied simultaneously. If these fora are any indication, this yes/no is the source of much confusion, shame and suffering among people who struggle with their sexuality.

(Note that I have not dealt with, addressed, or alluded to same-sex sexual expression or activity in this post–some people, for whatever reason, may believe I have. I have not.)

Anyway…

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!

The Lord is risen indeed! Alleluia!

 

[jeffspot]

Hahaha - well done guys!

I’m willing to admit I’m out-classed here.

…

I guess it’s just a great deal easier to accept that dictated celibacy is a flawed approach because the alternative is…not going to lie about it…one heck of a lonely path to walk.

Don’t get me wrong - the fellowship I share with other secular / catholic / christian people is amazing and I wouldn’t trade it…but like any journey there are dry spells. And they do feel exceptionally dry without even the hope of having someone to share life with.

(sigh)

BUT again - well said peoples!

jeffspot

 

[Corki]

Please stop equating us to single/unmarried/divorced heteros this is NOT the same. This is an affliction that we have to bear and struggle with for the rest of our lives. It is not the same as just being single.

I mean this in all sincerity. How is the situation in different than a single person who cannot marry or a civilly divorced person whose marriage was valid? It would seem to me, as an outsider, that the challenges with regard to chastity and companionship would be, if not identical, very similar.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Why can’t most Catholics simply admit that it’s quite possible for those kind of people to wind up in situations where they are in love with a person and that they have no hope of ever having a meangful positive relationship with them or permanently being wsith someone they love?** Instead Catholics prance around like faeries saying that oh if they only go through reparative therapy everything will be all better and then they’ll be attracted to the opposite sex and this heavy cross wil magically go away.**

My reaction to the part of your post which I bolded:

It is curious that there is a resistance to the idea that Catholics would be supportive of homosexuals seeking re-orientation or reparative therapy. Actually, conservative Jews and other non-Catholics are also supportive of it. The fact is that notwithstanding the disapproval by the APA, there are many same sex attracted people who do seek said therapy for themselves or for their loved ones, in order to manage or diminish unwanted homosexuality and/or to develop their heterosexual potential. What could possibly be wrong with that? Further, there is no evidence that efforts to change is harmful to the patient as the dominant mental health professional organization is wont to propagate. [Read the link to Dr. Throckmorton’s article provided below.]

It is noteworthy that APA, which is an association of mental health professionals, has long ago decided to be political in its alignment with gay activism in normalising homosexuality, the last of which is its current endorsement of same sex marriage.

In one of his homilies this Lent season, Fr. Groeschel respectfully acknowledged the role of psychology (he has a doctoral degree in the field from Columbia) but spoke with sadness of the profession’s rejection of the transcendent and that it does not know where it is going.

Courage, an apostolate of the Catholic Church that ministers to persons with same-sex attraction, is endorsed by the Pontifical Council for the Family and Pope John Paul II. Said apostolate calls for the cultivation of an interior life of chastity, which is the universal call to all Christians, in moving beyond the confines of the homosexual identity to a more complete one in Christ. Its main emphasis is on helping its members be chaste through prayer, the sacraments, sound spiritual direction, and a twelve-step program patterned on Alcoholics Anonymous.

As Courage founder and while alive and active in his ministry, Fr. Harvey, who also held a graduate degree in psychology at first believed that people could not get out of the homosexual condition but changed his mind because two of the first five members of Courage came out of the condition - and they weren’t even seeking to come out of it. Fr. Harvey did not think Courage members should feel obliged to seek a change in the condition itself. Therapy is not cheap and there are no guarantees that it will work in a given case, but he understood that those who want to seek a change in sexual tendency should be encouraged to do so. He believed, as a group of experts do, that teenagers have an above average chance of changing, so it is crucial for families to be aware of available resources, including therapists who specialize in this area.

According to Dr. Rick Fitzgibbons and Dr. Nicolosi, there is data that homosexual condition can be changed and if caught early, as when signs manifest in adolescence, it can be prevented. Another in the mental health profession is Dr. Warren Throckmorton, who believes same sex re-orientation is possible.

There are plenty of naysayers, of course, mostly from irreligious quarters and those who are cynical or too comfortable with their indulgence of a pet sin. There is wisdom in the Chinese saying: Those who don’t think change is possible should get out of the way of people doing it.
,

 

[bri89]

This is purely hypothetical and I mean it respectfully, but if I was a young gay catholic male, celibacy would probably seem like not just a cross to bear, but a death sentence.I say this as a girl with a bisexual brain. If I could not shake off the conviction that homogenital acts were sinful, I would still cultivate erotic friendships with young males, and I would probably do it without realizing it. It seems inhuman to say that homosexual leaning people can never be contented. Even though I have strong Christian convictions, I couldn’t allow that to deny me love.

 

[MrSylvester]

I have been thinking about homosexuality and the Church a lot lately and I think that it is wrong to compare SSA with these other afflictions. Being homosexual and Catholic is, I believe, one of the hardest and most depressing “crosses” in the world. The feeling of knowing that you can never feel proper love or never have a family and will live in a constant state of loneliness and despair for the rest of your life is quite overwhelming. I know there are many single people in the world but this is not the same. They always can live in hope. For us there is very little, or no hope. Trying to reconcile your faith with your sexual inclinations (that you really really feel you were sometimes born with) is so extremely difficult.

In my own situation, I know I have SSA and nobody else does. I know that if I were to come out I would lose my Catholic family (they just would not understand) and most of my Catholic friends (some would understand but would be wierded out) my relationships with my secular friends would change forever (they would be tolerant but I know that it would change the dynamics of our friendships irreversibly), I can’t marry a man and I can’t marry a woman, I do have some gay friends but I do not approve of their lifestyle so I am not very close to them and would not ever hang out with just them. That leaves you pretty much alone. And that is not good.

I strive to be a faithful Catholic. I really do. I don’t think the Church should change it’s teaching on homosexuality. But I do think more resources or support or general understanding of people in situations such as mine should be out there. Suicide was mentioned here already, I am testament to the fact that trying to reconcile your faith with SSA can sometimes be so unbelievably overwhelming that this seems like the only answer. I would hope people wouldn’t doubt that because I’ve lived it.

Thanks for listening.

Oh for crying out loud, loneliness? Unloved? Really? I mean really? How does having same sex attraction make one unloved. If you were an utter douchebag who looks upon the opposite sex as some great evil like chauvinistic homosexuals or crazy feminist lesbians, then maybe I could see why people would avoid you but since you don’t seem like that, you don’t deserve to be unloved.

The thing is, we don’t condemn anyone with same sex attraction just as we don’t condemn heterosexual people for having opposite sex attraction. We condemn them is they perform sex outside of marriage or if they fantasize about someone sexually, so much so that if that someone could read their mind, they’d surely blush and give him a megaton punch. We oppose homosexuality because it isn’t based around love, its based on lust. Men and women marry because both men and women have different qualities to each other that not only help the raising of children but in they way they express themselves. Only spouses of different sexes share qualities that can make their love truly mutual and follow Pauls teaching of loving each other like Jesus and the Church.

Another thing is, if a gay man were to make friends with ONLY men but avoided making friends with women just because he mistrusted them or because women aren’t men, then thats not a sign of same sex attraction. To be blunt, thats a sign of social awkwardness. I should know; I’m socially awkward, have bipolar disorder and constant mood swings, have only a single friend whom I hardly talk to and am full of self loathing. Yet with help form Mary Immaculate I’m trying to change. I know that my condition is bad and am trying to prevent others from falling into my same mistakes. Just because one is sexually attracted towards the same sex doesn’t mean he is homosexual, its just lust, attraction. Neither does admiring the same sex for being handsome mean that one is gay.

Neither does having SSA mean that you have to dress up like an idiot whilst painting your face and taking part in gay pride parades. The people who are what we’d call camp gay are not doing the things they do because they believe in themselves and that they’re expressing their gayness, they only do the things they do because they are insecure about themselves. They can’t accept that they have same sex attraction so they force themselves into the gay community in order to justify their dirty activities. Yet guess what? Not all gays are like that and the other half doesn’t have to be like those insecure idiots.

You sir are a completely normal person who just needs to make friends from all walks of life. Avoid these gay communities like the plague and take your own path and not the one they force you into. If you are a devout Catholic, you can tell your parents and your friends that you have same sex attraction but that you’re not a filthy degenerate and that you’re not going to let children suffer by supporting same sex ‘marriage’. Get support from catholic books on how to control your lust and make friends with males just as anyone makes friends with anybody. Better yet, find a person who actually care for your soul and not one who is trying to force you to perform sex etc… May Mary be with you.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

This is purely hypothetical and I mean it respectfully, but if I was a young gay catholic male, celibacy would probably seem like not just a cross to bear, but a death sentence.

It may very well seem so, but that does not mean that it is. A drug addict may very well experience physical pain on being deprived of the drug, and may feel like all that is good in the world is being denied him, but he would be wrong. And then, when he was clean, the pain would much decrease, even if the desire was still there.

It seems inhuman to say that homosexual leaning people can never be contented. Even though I have strong Christian convictions, I couldn’t allow that to deny me love.

They can be contented, just not by satisfying that particular desire. And it is in no way denying love. It may be denying romantic love, and this may be hard for some people.

But remember, the ultimate love is God. If a person has a void where they, for whatever reason, must deny themselves romantic involvement, then the best way forward is to fill it with God, not with something that feels good but is antithetical to Love Himself.

 

[Johnny760]

In response to a post that infuriated me: “Neither does having SSA mean that you have to dress up like an idiot whilst painting your face and taking part in gay pride parades. The people who are what we’d call camp gay are not doing the things they do because they believe in themselves and that they’re expressing their gayness, they only do the things they do because they are insecure about themselves. They can’t accept that they have same sex attraction so they force themselves into the gay community in order to justify their dirty activities. Yet guess what? Not all gays are like that and the other half doesn’t have to be like those insecure idiots”

These camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy.

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

We are creatures of love. There are many theories about why people are born homosexual (notice how I didn’t use ‘causes people to be born homosexual’, because ‘causes’ implies it is a thing, which it isn’t) and science has made observations that it is directly related to older brothers and genes, but that is neither here nor there.*

*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better. these camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy.

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

We are creatures of love. There are many theories about why people are born homosexual (notice how I didn’t use ‘causes people to be born homosexual’, because ‘causes’ implies it is a thing, which it isn’t) and science has made observations that it is directly related to older brothers and genes, but that is neither here nor there.*

*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better. These camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy.*

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

We are creatures of love. There are many theories about why people are born homosexual (notice how I didn’t use ‘causes people to be born homosexual’, because ‘causes’ implies it is a thing, which it isn’t) and science has made observations that it is directly related to older brothers and genes, but that is neither here nor there.*

*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better.

 

[Johnny760]

In response to a post that infuriated me: “Neither does having SSA mean that you have to dress up like an idiot whilst painting your face and taking part in gay pride parades. The people who are what we’d call camp gay are not doing the things they do because they believe in themselves and that they’re expressing their gayness, they only do the things they do because they are insecure about themselves. They can’t accept that they have same sex attraction so they force themselves into the gay community in order to justify their dirty activities. Yet guess what? Not all gays are like that and the other half doesn’t have to be like those insecure idiots”

*These camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy. I can’t understand how one could be filled with such hate, whilst practicing what you preach ‘Love thy neighbor’?

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

We are creatures of love. There are many theories about why people are born homosexual (notice how I didn’t use ‘causes people to be born homosexual’, because ‘causes’ implies it is a thing, which it isn’t) and science has made observations that it is directly related to older brothers and genes, but that is neither here nor there.*

*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better. *

 

[ivebeenshown]

In response to a post that infuriated me: “Neither does having SSA mean that you have to dress up like an idiot whilst painting your face and taking part in gay pride parades. The people who are what we’d call camp gay are not doing the things they do because they believe in themselves and that they’re expressing their gayness, they only do the things they do because they are insecure about themselves. They can’t accept that they have same sex attraction so they force themselves into the gay community in order to justify their dirty activities. Yet guess what? Not all gays are like that and the other half doesn’t have to be like those insecure idiots”

*These camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy. I can’t understand how one could be filled with such hate, whilst practicing what you preach ‘Love thy neighbor’?

That post does appear to be very inappropriate.

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

The varying opinions of laity would not in itself serve as evidence for the invalidity of Church teaching. I would be glad to discuss official Church teaching with you, which is found in the Catechism, paragraph 2357-2359, as found here:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

The Church believes the inclination is disordered, but it does not teach that you are evil simply for having it!

We are creatures of love. There are many theories about why people are born homosexual (notice how I didn’t use ‘causes people to be born homosexual’, because ‘causes’ implies it is a thing, which it isn’t) and science has made observations that it is directly related to older brothers and genes, but that is neither here nor there.*

The Church is largely unconcerned with the origins of the homosexual desire, thus you may find that members of the Church will have varying opinions… none of which are definitive or binding on the faithful.

*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better. *

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

I began this thread with the line ‘Homosexuality and why the Church is wrong’, and the responses have only validated that. This bickering and indecisiveness between yourselves just reenforces my point.*

No ones opinion on this site can validate this heterodoxal belief that the Church is wrong.

*These camp males are not ‘idiots’. They’re doctors, lawyers, politicians. The only reason they parade during gay pride is because they are insecure? Such blasphemy. I can’t understand how one could be filled with such hate, whilst practicing what you preach ‘Love thy neighbor’?

Funny, hypothetically what would you call a group of men and women who went out in public celebrating their heterosexuality through debauchery, demands that people be tolerant of fornication, and general anger at people they found to be “prudes” (like the Catholic Church)

I think insecure and idiots fits the description of such groups regardless of what their career is outside these lewd parades.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…
*On a final note, I would just like to emphasize my gratitude to those who privately messaged me, with incredible advice and support. My relationship with god is the most important thing in my life, and coming to terms with my sexuality has only strengthened it.

It gets better. *

Your last paragraph and sentence concerned and prompted me to caution you. If the private messages you have received, courtesy of CAF, I might add, from caved in Catholics and non-Catholics, are anything like or close to the message of Dan Savage, be warned that your best interests are not being served.

Some are good with packaging their agenda, which is to propagate heterodoxy, a repudiation or false understanding of Catholic teaching. Without careful discernment, you are at risk of accepting customized ideas to fit individual ideas of “good” and “truth,” but these ideas are really the opposite, consisting of a simple surrender to what’s easy.

Indeed it would be hard to hear a unified Catholic message in a forum like this, much like in the real world out there – challenging – lots of noise and contradictory messages.

You are trying to make sense of your same sex attraction as a young male fearful of the future. It is not imperative to rush to a position and decision that would have a profound effect on your life. Remember your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

I close this post with prayers and I hope others who read this offer prayers as well that you find the right guidance to your struggles.
,

 

[jeffspot]

Johnny 760, you are correct. It does get better.

I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the acceptance of my friends upon coming out of the closet. And deeply hurt by others. It’s a mixed bag, but it feels much much better than trying to conceal part of my life.

It has been…interesting…to note some of the theories and misconceptions about homosexual people on this thread. The majority of posts are quite grounded, but every now and then there’s one that makes me laugh and then feel a little sad. And then laugh again, because you just need to end on a high note.

Take away message: Even when it feels otherwise, you’re not alone!

jeffspot

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Oh for crying out loud, loneliness? Unloved? Really? I mean really? How does having same sex attraction make one unloved. If you were an utter douchebag who looks upon the opposite sex as some great evil like chauvinistic homosexuals or crazy feminist lesbians, then maybe I could see why people would avoid you but since you don’t seem like that, you don’t deserve to be unloved.

The thing is, we don’t condemn anyone with same sex attraction just as we don’t condemn heterosexual people for having opposite sex attraction. We condemn them is they perform sex outside of marriage or if they fantasize about someone sexually, so much so that if that someone could read their mind, they’d surely blush and give him a megaton punch. We oppose homosexuality because it isn’t based around love, its based on lust. Men and women marry because both men and women have different qualities to each other that not only help the raising of children but in they way they express themselves. Only spouses of different sexes share qualities that can make their love truly mutual and follow Pauls teaching of loving each other like Jesus and the Church.

Another thing is, if a gay man were to make friends with ONLY men but avoided making friends with women just because he mistrusted them or because women aren’t men, then thats not a sign of same sex attraction. To be blunt, thats a sign of social awkwardness. I should know; I’m socially awkward, have bipolar disorder and constant mood swings, have only a single friend whom I hardly talk to and am full of self loathing. Yet with help form Mary Immaculate I’m trying to change. I know that my condition is bad and am trying to prevent others from falling into my same mistakes. Just because one is sexually attracted towards the same sex doesn’t mean he is homosexual, its just lust, attraction. Neither does admiring the same sex for being handsome mean that one is gay.

Neither does having SSA mean that you have to dress up like an idiot whilst painting your face and taking part in gay pride parades. The people who are what we’d call camp gay are not doing the things they do because they believe in themselves and that they’re expressing their gayness, they only do the things they do because they are insecure about themselves. They can’t accept that they have same sex attraction so they force themselves into the gay community in order to justify their dirty activities. Yet guess what? Not all gays are like that and the other half doesn’t have to be like those insecure idiots.

You sir are a completely normal person who just needs to make friends from all walks of life. Avoid these gay communities like the plague and take your own path and not the one they force you into. If you are a devout Catholic, you can tell your parents and your friends that you have same sex attraction but that you’re not a filthy degenerate and that you’re not going to let children suffer by supporting same sex ‘marriage’. Get support from catholic books on how to control your lust and make friends with males just as anyone makes friends with anybody. Better yet, find a person who actually care for your soul and not one who is trying to force you to perform sex etc… May Mary be with you.

You appear to misunderstand what he is saying.

Loneliness: without companions; solitary. The situation he is in is a rather solitary one, on the one hand he can’t relate with Catholics who are thinking about marriage or the priesthood since both are denied and on the other he can’t relate to the LGBT community since he isn’t out. For many people those attractions they feel innate so in effect being “in the closet” feels like hiding part of them and in cases where they think/know they will lose family and friends it feels like hiding a deep, dark secret, a heavy weight.

He doesn’t actually say unloved or unlovable, he says “you can never feel proper love” (emphasis mine). I believe he is referring to the status of same sex attraction as being disordered and therefore any feelings he develops for someone is not “proper love”, but disordered feels (i.e. wrong) meaning he is told he can’t love anyone properly, oh and there is people like you saying it isn’t love it’s lust.

“[C]ontrol your lust”? What if he falls “in love” with a guy, but doesn’t want engage in sex with him because he is concerned about the other’s spiritual welfare? Is that lust or is that love?

It may very well seem so, but that does not mean that it is. A drug addict may very well experience physical pain on being deprived of the drug, and may feel like all that is good in the world is being denied him, but he would be wrong. And then, when he was clean, the pain would much decrease, even if the desire was still there.

They can be contented, just not by satisfying that particular desire. And it is in no way denying love. It may be denying romantic love, and this may be hard for some people.

But remember, the ultimate love is God. If a person has a void where they, for whatever reason, must deny themselves romantic involvement, then the best way forward is to fill it with God, not with something that feels good but is antithetical to Love Himself.

Same sex attraction is quantitatively and qualitatively different from addictions, comparing them is quite insulting to people with those attractions.