Homosexuality And Why The Church Is Wrong

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I remember reading both of these articles some time back and have found that they argue each side with more grace than what I can myself muster. If you are seeking to understand each position’s core arguments, this should prove insightful.

gaychristian.net/greatdebate.php
Having actually self-identified as a lesbian for 10 years, I am quite well-acquainted with the core arguments of both sides. I love my dear friends who are straight, gay, Catholic, anything-but-Catholic. In spite of being a reverent, Rome-aligned Catholic, I’m actually pretty understanding and insightful – but that doesn’t mean I agree with everyone’s choices.

Thanks for sharing what’s important to you.

Gertie
 
The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny
Johnny 760,
I love you! You are brave and courageous for being knowing yourself. Come home.
 
Look, I lived as a lesbian for some 10 years, and I tried all the mental gymnastics to make the Church wrong and me right. In the end, the god I was worshipping was my own intellect – because my thoughts were, of course, so much more well-reasoned and insightful than anything that came before me :rotfl: What a pile of rot!
Gertabelle, although none of my business, you said lived as a lesbian, are you implying that you dropped that label and no longer identify as one? And how and why did you look towards the Church for guidance? I’m just asking because most of the people I know who identify as gay/lesbian whatever holds Christianity with much contempt.
 
Most if not all of the homosexuals I know have emotional problems, either very high or very very low, depending on the day.

If the victimization stigmatization were true I don’t think there would be and Jews or Blacks left, No gays have ever been persecuted to the extent that either of these groups have.
I’m sad to say this is true for my case as well. Most of the homosexuals I know, including a family member, are very insecure and their emotional needs are like climbing a tread master. Are all homosexuals like this? Of course not. But for those that are it makes me worry for them, and if they do do something horrific - like suicide - conservatives and society will be blamed.
 
The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny
perhaps you never brought this up to a mangy dog.

You are not evil. Your chosen “lifestyles” is. Homosexuality as a sin…is evil and a contagion. It goes against nature and normalcy.

Love is a very mis-used word. For statrters it is not just a word…it is a being…God is Love and Love is God.

People really love this car and this phone and this thing and that thing}" it is not love.

Adoption of children by same-sex-couples is wrong in that it perpetuates the evil of active homosexuality as something “normal”. It is not.
No one is born homesexual. It is a disease of the soul - of the combined efforts of Lucifer on the human concupiscience; the influence of the world and the devil himself.

Nurtured or tolerated…it flourishes into full blown sin.

Keep a clear perspective…
If you want salvation and liberation from homosexual activity…seek it …actively.
 
I’m sad to say this is true for my case as well. Most of the homosexuals I know, including a family member, are very insecure and their emotional needs are like climbing a tread master. Are all homosexuals like this? Of course not. But for those that are it makes me worry for them, and if they do do something horrific - like suicide - conservatives and society will be blamed.
It makes me wonder why the homosexuals I have encounter all seem to have a high level of depression. I know the answer most commonly given , as was by the OP, is that the persecution and victimization is the cause. I would have to disagree though, as I stated in an earlier post. Blacks and Jews don’t seem to have this same propensity that gays do. The levels of persecution of Gays, in my opinion, simply can’t be compared.
 
Hello everyone. Wow! I’m new on this site, so please bear with me.Wow! There are not a lot of open minds here it seems.
Our Father gave us the gifts of intellect and reason and free will. Religion and science should walk hand in hand should they not?
Why is the Church so slow to catch up with science?
Is it not clear sexual orientation is not chosen? One’s sexual orientation then is natural to them.
Homosexuality then is a minority orientation but not unnatural or disordered to that individual.
Promiscuity, yes, is sinful but society thus far has not allowed same sex unions to be legalized and blessed .
Having worked in pediatric health care for over 30 years I can tell you our homosexual families who had adopted special needs children were many times far more functional than our hetero sexual families.
Soon our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters will have marriage equality and our society will be better off for it.
Why do I feel I’m about to experience the e-rack?🙂
Love to all.
 
It makes me wonder why the homosexuals I have encounter all seem to have a high level of depression. I know the answer most commonly given , as was by the OP, is that the persecution and victimization is the cause. I would have to disagree though, as I stated in an earlier post. Blacks and Jews don’t seem to have this same propensity that gays do. The levels of persecution of Gays, in my opinion, simply can’t be compared.
Man can not live on bread alone.

For young people dealing with it who want to embrace the Church’s teachings it must be hard, after all it seems like everyone else is with someone, but they know they can’t have anyone, ever… At least blacks and Jews can get married and have families.
 
Why is the Church so slow to catch up with science?

Homosexuality then is a minority orientation but not unnatural or disordered to that individual.

Soon our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters will have marriage equality and our society will be better off for it.

Why do I feel I’m about to experience the e-rack?🙂
Troll much?
 
Hello everyone. Wow! I’m new on this site, so please bear with me.Wow! There are not a lot of open minds here it seems.
Our Father gave us the gifts of intellect and reason and free will. Religion and science should walk hand in hand should they not?
Why is the Church so slow to catch up with science?
Is it not clear sexual orientation is not chosen? One’s sexual orientation then is natural to them.
Homosexuality then is a minority orientation but not unnatural or disordered to that individual.
Promiscuity, yes, is sinful but society thus far has not allowed same sex unions to be legalized and blessed .
Having worked in pediatric health care for over 30 years I can tell you our homosexual families who had adopted special needs children were many times far more functional than our hetero sexual families.
Soon our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters will have marriage equality and our society will be better off for it.
Why do I feel I’m about to experience the e-rack?🙂
Love to all.
An open mind is one thing a closed mind is another

No one is “born” gay. science continues to prove this.
Most people who think they are gay are victims of abuse that have caused them to confuse their natural desire for their “friends” they defiantly need love and support the catholic church has realized this since the Romans and pagans started dehumanizing people by letting them engage in this behavior.

The church is very pro science in fact more than 98% of scientific discoveries/scientific ideas can and are from the catholic church.

Without the catholic church we would all be Muslim, Danish, or pagan. And y’all of us would probably live in mud huts.

Shalom
God bless
 
Hello everyone. Wow! I’m new on this site, so please bear with me.Wow! There are not a lot of open minds here it seems.
Our Father gave us the gifts of intellect and reason and free will. Religion and science should walk hand in hand should they not?
Why is the Church so slow to catch up with science?
Is it not clear sexual orientation is not chosen? One’s sexual orientation then is natural to them.
Homosexuality then is a minority orientation but not unnatural or disordered to that individual.
Promiscuity, yes, is sinful but society thus far has not allowed same sex unions to be legalized and blessed .
Having worked in pediatric health care for over 30 years I can tell you our homosexual families who had adopted special needs children were many times far more functional than our hetero sexual families.
Soon our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters will have marriage equality and our society will be better off for it.
Why do I feel I’m about to experience the e-rack?🙂
Love to all.
So, which anti-Catholic group or establishment do you belong to? What gave you the idea to come on and masquerade as a Catholic in order to spread your own personal agenda? If you’re some other Christian, lying is a sin, and you’re shot down from the get-go. God prolly isn’t happy with you.

Either way, you are woefully uninformed about the information at hand, and either a lot of catching up is in order, or you need to go play somewhere else.
 
Man can not live on bread alone.

For young people dealing with it who want to embrace the Church’s teachings it must be hard, after all it seems like everyone else is with someone, but they know they can’t have anyone, ever.
Well said. Thank you.
 
Why do I feel I’m about to experience the e-rack?🙂
Love to all.
Well, perhaps it’s because you’re misrepresenting the Church’s teachings on homosexuality, which have absolutely nothing to do with etiology. The basis for our objection to homosexuality is that it involves intentional misuse of one’s sexual faculties, which are ordered toward procreation. Thus the proper use of our sexual faculties is in a manner consistent with the end of procreation. This is just as true of homosexuals as it is of heterosexuals.

You should presume to scold other people when you don’t even know what they believe or why they believe it.
 
What does that mean “troll much?”
*Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: “That was an excellent troll you posted.”*
 
Having worked in pediatric health care for over 30 years I can tell you our homosexual families who had adopted special needs children were many times far more functional than our hetero sexual families.
…and this is why you feel this way -I get it.
 
Man can not live on bread alone.

For young people dealing with it who want to embrace the Church’s teachings it must be hard, after all it seems like everyone else is with someone, but they know they can’t have anyone, ever… At least blacks and Jews can get married and have families.
Growing up with a close family member with same sex attraction, I witnessed and therefore do not minimize the struggles of the same sex attracted in the young and the old. However, I react to your post as it adds to the wrong notion that everyone else is with someone in an actual or potentially sexual relationship.

You have posts that were illuminating and made me think hard, Dakota, but some as with this one of yours, I think, only perpetuates the entitlement that homosexuals feel they should have – marriage and families, which you know as a Catholic, is not consistent with the teaching. It also has the effect of readers to erroneously conclude that gay ‘marriage’ and adoption of kids are civil rights and/or that being a homosexual is a genetic / biological trait like skin pigmentation or race. Why do you go there?
,
 
The only reason why I’m writing this is because I’m sick and tired of being called ‘evil’ just because of my sexual orientation.

I strongly believe I’m a loving person. I love my life, my family and friends. ALL human beings are creatures of love, no matter what they are attracted to.

At the end of the day that’s all it is, a sexual orientation. Just because I’m gay doesnt mean I’m ‘evil’. I’m tired of the Catholic Church in particular persuading people that it’s wrong. It is not, nor has it ever been.

In reference to another thread about gay couples being allowed to adopt, to quote one of this websites answers “Adoption is for the benefit of the child involved”. Are you saying a child is better to be in a foster home rather than be adopted by a same-sex couple? I am telling you that any child would be lucky to have two dads or two mothers.

Homosexuality is not contagious, its not caused by mothers ‘loving’ their child that bit too much. I was born this way.

I always wonder why the Church continues this mentality, when thousands of people (teenagers in particular) are committing suicide because they can’t live with being gay because YOU are telling them they are evil?

I know the chances of a half decent rebuttal to this is slim, but I had to let you know my opinion.
-Johnny
I just wanted to share something i heard in my church , the Priest of this church had shared a story on the issue and i do not remember it completely just that he had said he knew of someone who was gay, and that to some degree he had tried to explain why being gay is a sin and that he wanted to help this young man to overcome being homosexual, and in turn the young man didnt talk to him any more after that. ( and i am paraphrasing what i remember roughly )

my two cents on all of this, which probably isn’t even worth two cents…

and I am over simplifing this to probably the worst degree possible…

If one were to look at this issue as a game, the team one wants to play for is the Catholic Church, the rules are this team does not support Gay marrage, and will not marry gay couples, and considers or has put into cannon law that being a homosexual is a sin.

That is it, one coming into this " game " doesn’t have control over the rules, you either accept it or you don’t you either abide by the rules or you don’t, and you either back up the rules or you don’t.

The Church has very limited resources from historical scriptures that address this issue, which leaves everything open for debate, since no one took the time to sit down and write down in detail on an issue that was current even back when scriptures where first being written.

If people where to have debated the subject when scripture was first being written, on love, how God created man and woman to pro create, but how can fundamental love between two people of any sex be considered evil or a sin…

I mean how can anyone truthfully answer this now ?

So one has to make a choice and cross a line and either say I am going to abide by the rules set forth and play for this team. laws change in America from time to time on Gays in the military to States choosing to allow for Gay marrage, but the Holy Church does not play the Game America plays.

We as Catholics are at least lucky in that the Church only considers homosexuality a sin and thus able to be redeemed through confession and nothing more than that .

And consider this, only recently ( relatively speaking ) have girls been allowed to be Alter Servers, and not just girls women too.

So if this issue of Homosexuality is ever going to change in the Holy Church to grant marrage to homosexuals and support a homosexual family, it will not be in our life time and will probably take nothing less than point blank divine intervention upon a future Pope to come to such a conclusion.

But could the Holy Church at least speak up on behalf of homosexual teenagers, to let them know, you are not some evil and damned for eternity creature or some mistake by God, and any homosexual for that matter, I would say yes to that, and simply add that the Holy Church or scripture only considers it a sin, and that it requires confession and that every sinner is welcome to turn to Jesus in the Catholic faith and is encouraged to do so and put their trust in him.

As to if the Church is " Wrong" as stated in the title of this thread, I would say no it is not, again the rules set in the Holy Church were established through faith based on scripture. We as a free People in America can challenge rules established by politicians, but rules based on faith we need to at the very least, respect and back up in some form or another, and leave the rest in the hands of God.

If you want to form another thread, consider what Islam thinks of Homosexuality and the rules set forth on how to treat those who are Homosexuals Versus the Catholic Church.
 
Thank you to everyone who took the time to answer what I posted.
I don’t know how to do the shading in to answer specific passages yet.
Thank you for explaining that trolling thing. I quess I did come off very inflammatory and I apologize.

I am passionate about social justice, Truth, Reality.

I really am a Roman Catholic, born and raised as they say. I don’t belong to any other groups.
I should explain I have painfully separated myself from the Church. It is not a matter of the Creed or the commandments of the Church or faith or morals. I love the Church! It is a matter of social conscience. I am first and foremost, as you all are also, a follower of Jesus.
At first, I was a “cafeteria” Catholic. Then I felt as a matter of integrity I could no longer financially support a Church that, I felt was in error. So I am worshipping elsewhere as a guest.

I want to come back but I’m seeing the holiness of the Church being overwhelmed by pride, power and dogma, like the Scribes and Pharasees.

I want to, with humility, submit my opinions to the authority Holy Mother Church but where is she?

To get back to the original thread, I keep reading that the act of intimacy needs to be open to creation. Why does this have to be a biological creation?

With love.
 
To get back to the original thread, I keep reading that the act of intimacy needs to be open to creation. Why does this have to be a biological creation?

With love.
It’s not biological creation… It’s the creation of a soul… It’s about working in tandem with God for eternity.

The way I see it, we need to be focusing more on our everlasting souls and less on our lustful impulses from this world, which is why homosexuality is a sin. It places the desires of the material world before our friendship with God.

It’s okay for two men or two women to be friends, but they should not be lusting after each other. We all have our crosses to bear, which often come in the form of addiction… Lust is the addiction of the homosexual.
 
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