Homosexuality as sexist

[ssa_fellow]

I doubt the rise of homosexuality is due to women’s rights-- the fact is that society is becoming more secular and homosexuality is becoming accepted (finally) as a norm. Lots of homosexuals who would ordinarily hide their homosexuality from strict families now have more secular traditions that make coming out easier. There is comfort in acceptance.

How you can tell me that you know what homosexuals are saying is beyond me, and how this in turn reduces women’s power is even stranger to me. And I can’t possibly fathom how this is like rape at all, it almost sounds like you are blaming homosexuals for coming out

While I agree with you, I personally view this as a bad thing. And you clearly view this as a good development in society.

And I would definitely use drastically different terminology. For instance, whereas you say homosexuals would hide this from their families, I would say that more people born with SSA would live their lives according to Church teachings, and would in turn be better followers of Jesus Christ.

It’s very clear that our society has been in decline, and we’ve also been experiencing a slippery slope in morality. It used to be that society would frown upon adultery and even more so on divorce. Society has slowly come to accept the evils of adultery, divorce, sex before marriage… so if people can do all of these things, why not sodomy? And now it’s going beyond that… to accepting transgender operations.

So yes, there are more openly homosexual people now. There’s also a lot more openness about adultery and divorce. And all forms of evil and sin. And I agree with you, it’s because there is “comfort in acceptance”. When society accepts sin as good, it is comftorable for people to listen to their own human nature or else to the Devil, rather than listening to their Lord Jesus Christ.

It used to be that society accepted you for being Christian. But, even today God’s comfort far outways the comfort of society.

 

[JDFatalist]

While I agree with you, I personally view this as a bad thing. And you clearly view this as a good development in society.

And I would definitely use drastically different terminology. For instance, whereas you say homosexuals would hide this from their families, I would say that more people born with SSA would live their lives according to Church teachings, and would in turn be better followers of Jesus Christ.

It’s very clear that our society has been in decline, and we’ve also been experiencing a slippery slope in morality. It used to be that society would frown upon adultery and even more so on divorce. Society has slowly come to accept the evils of adultery, divorce, sex before marriage… so if people can do all of these things, why not sodomy? And now it’s going beyond that… to accepting transgender operations.

So yes, there are more openly homosexual people now. There’s also a lot more openness about adultery and divorce. And all forms of evil and sin. And I agree with you, it’s because there is “comfort in acceptance”. When society accepts sin as good, it is comftorable for people to listen to their own human nature or else to the Devil, rather than listening to their Lord Jesus Christ.

It used to be that society accepted you for being Christian. But, even today God’s comfort far outways the comfort of society.

In what way is homosexuality a “bad thing”? In what way is sodomy, sex before marriage, or transgender operations affecting you? You’re equating homosexuality with adultery? That’s completely unrelated except in your head as “sins”. A lot of what you say is your opinion, and in no way does it have any bearing on what should be or ought to be done on a larger society. I much prefer it this way than the suppressive state of a nation under god without question and fear. I’ve seen the extent of religiously led societies and find that human beings are much happier when a Church doesn’t tell them how to have sex or with whom and when, especially when that kind of society expects a narrow way of living. Adultery is the only thing on your list I can consider to be wrong, but that is between two adults. Especially with the globalization of cultures and beliefs, there is no way to even properly impose Catholic teaching onto a society anymore.

 

[Baelor]

In what way is homosexuality a “bad thing”? In what way is sodomy, sex before marriage, or transgender operations affecting you? You’re equating homosexuality with adultery? That’s completely unrelated except in your head as “sins”. A lot of what you say is your opinion, and in no way does it have any bearing on what should be or ought to be done on a larger society. I much prefer it this way than the suppressive state of a nation under god without question and fear. I’ve seen the extent of religiously led societies and find that human beings are much happier when a Church doesn’t tell them how to have sex or with whom and when, especially when that kind of society expects a narrow way of living. Adultery is the only thing on your list I can consider to be wrong, but that is between two adults. Especially with the globalization of cultures and beliefs, there is no way to even properly impose Catholic teaching onto a society anymore.

This thread is not the place to discuss those issues – please remember the OP. If you want to discuss homosexual acts, there are plenty of active threads for that.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

To help us from talking past each other, here is the opinion about how genetics affects behavior from The Human Genome Project website:

“There are several scientific obstacles to correlating genotype (an individual’s genetic endowment) and behavior. One problem is in defining a specific endpoint that characterizes a condition, be it schizophrenia or intelligence. Another problem is in identifying and excluding other possible causes of the condition, thereby permitting a determination of the significance of a supposed correlation. Much current research on genes and behavior also engenders very strong feelings because of the potential social and political consequences of accepting these supposed truths. Thus, more than any other aspect of genetics, discoveries in behavioral genetics should not be viewed as irrefutable until there has been substantial scientific corroboration.”
ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/behavior.shtml

So, they basically cannot say how much behavior is learned vs. genetics.

No, that’s not at all what they’re saying. That behavioral genetics poses unique difficulties compared to, say, physiological genetics doesn’t mean we have no way of determining to what extent our genetics affect our behavior.

The research says that homosexuality is created in cases of child sexual abuse by an adult of the same gender, and we’ve seen women turn into lesbians after their husbands cheated on them,

A few posters have mentioned this already and to my knowledge I’m the only person, so far, to actually post any research, none of which speaks to a correlation between sexual abuse and orientation, and from what meager bit I have been able to read of the scientific literature, this conclusion is not supported by the evidence. Care to cite some studies?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I doubt the rise of homosexuality is due to women’s rights-- the fact is that society is becoming more secular and homosexuality is becoming accepted (finally) as a norm. Lots of homosexuals who would ordinarily hide their homosexuality from strict families now have more secular traditions that make coming out easier. There is comfort in acceptance.

How you can tell me that you know what homosexuals are saying is beyond me, and how this in turn reduces women’s power is even stranger to me. And I can’t possibly fathom how this is like rape at all, it almost sounds like you are blaming homosexuals for coming out

Many Christians would agree with you.
Of course they see that as an entirely bad thing.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

And I was proved right in the very next post
Makes me wish I planned it.

While I agree with you, I personally view this as a bad thing. And you clearly view this as a good development in society.

And I would definitely use drastically different terminology. For instance, whereas you say homosexuals would hide this from their families, I would say that more people born with SSA would live their lives according to Church teachings, and would in turn be better followers of Jesus Christ.

It’s very clear that our society has been in decline, and we’ve also been experiencing a slippery slope in morality. It used to be that society would frown upon adultery and even more so on divorce. Society has slowly come to accept the evils of adultery, divorce, sex before marriage… so if people can do all of these things, why not sodomy? And now it’s going beyond that… to accepting transgender operations.

So yes, there are more openly homosexual people now. There’s also a lot more openness about adultery and divorce. And all forms of evil and sin. And I agree with you, it’s because there is “comfort in acceptance”. When society accepts sin as good, it is comftorable for people to listen to their own human nature or else to the Devil, rather than listening to their Lord Jesus Christ.

It used to be that society accepted you for being Christian. But, even today God’s comfort far outways the comfort of society.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

The origins of the homosexual impulse are different for different people.

The idea that feminism has promoted homosexuality in men may or may not have some merit. I really don’t know, though it seems doubtful. It may have been more instrumental in promoting lesbianism to the extent that homosexuality is a power issue as much as anything else. Feminism promotes female bonding, though certainly not all feminists are lesbians just as all Boy Scouts are not not going into sodomy.

When boys first become homosexuals, I think at least sometimes it might be because they have a dominant mother with whom they do not get along all that well. The same for girls and their fathers. If in the early years of developing one’s sexuality one feels oppressed or threatened by the parent of the opposite sex, one might be less threatened by a member of the same sex, especially if the parent of the same sex has been less dominant or threatening, or even more affectionate. In the case of parent-child incest, there might be an emotional wound so deep that the child never wants to have sex again with a person of the opposite sex.

Just a speculation with no basis in fact. As I said, there may be many different reasons for becoming homosexual. It would be interesting to be a psychiatrist studying this question. Have any of them determined a pattern of this type among patients?

 

[mitex]

The origins of the homosexual impulse are different for different people.

The idea that feminism has promoted homosexuality in men may or may not have some merit. I really don’t know, though it seems doubtful. It may have been more instrumental in promoting lesbianism to the extent that homosexuality is a power issue as much as anything else. Feminism promotes female bonding, though certainly not all feminists are lesbians just as all Boy Scouts are not not going into sodomy.

When boys first become homosexuals, I think at least sometimes it might be because they have a dominant mother with whom they do not get along all that well. The same for girls and their fathers. If in the early years of developing one’s sexuality one feels oppressed or threatened by the parent of the opposite sex, one might be less threatened by a member of the same sex, especially if the parent of the same sex has been less dominant or threatening, or even more affectionate. In the case of parent-child incest, there might be an emotional wound so deep that the child never wants to have sex again with a person of the opposite sex.

Just a speculation with no basis in fact. As I said, there may be many different reasons for becoming homosexual. It would be interesting to be a psychiatrist studying this question. Have any of them determined a pattern of this type among patients?

There’s no proof of that. The truth that both the ex-gay ministries and the gay community get wrong is we just don’t know what causes a homosexual orientation.

 

[ssa_fellow]

In what way is homosexuality a “bad thing”?

I never said homosexuality as a bad thing. In case you don’t know what SSA means, it means: Same Sex Attracted. So… that would mean that I hate myself. Well, I don’t. What I was referring to was the rise of socal acceptance of homosexuality which allows people to “come out” and live a life of perversity. I view this as bad. I’m saying it was better when society condemned gay sex. In fact the condemnation of gay sex is the only one that is still out there today… I think society needs to once again not only condemn that, but to condemn all sex outside of marriage, as well as divorce. AS IT USED TO.

So… THAT is a bad thing. The fact that society is more accepting of sin. Society needs to realize that all people with SSA are called to celibacy.
JD Fatalist:

In what way is sodomy, sex before marriage, or transgender operations affecting you? You’re equating homosexuality with adultery?

It affects me because I don’t like evil. I don’t think anyone should practice evil. Secondly, of course. The Catholic Church has a proper view of sexuality: no sex outside of marriage. So how are sodomy and adultery not equatable? Both are outside a sexually healthy relationship.
JD Fatalist:

I much prefer it this way than the suppressive state of a nation under god without question and fear. I’ve seen the extent of religiously led societies and find that human beings are much happier when a Church doesn’t tell them how to have sex or with whom and when, especially when that kind of society expects a narrow way of living

No. You haven’t seen the extent of religiously led societies. I hate it when atheists say this because it’s just plain not true. There hasn’t been a Christian theocracy in your lifetime. So what are you doing, comparing us to Muslim theocracies? In your lifetime when have you seen a society being led by Christianity? When? I would love to know.
JD Fatalist:

Especially with the globalization of cultures and beliefs, there is no way to even properly impose Catholic teaching onto a society anymore.

Oh believe me, it’s still possible. If you knew anything about the economic and social teachings of the Catholic Church you’d realize they oppose globalization BIG TIME. It’s called “subsidarity”. It means: the smallest unit that can handle the issue should. In other words: more homeschooling, more local autonomy, more states rights (when states are the smallest unit… often times the city or county will be the smallest unit to oversee the issue).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

**I never said homosexuality as a bad thing. In case you don’t know what SSA means, it means: Same Sex Attracted. So… that would mean that I hate myself. Well, I don’t. What I was referring to was the rise of socal acceptance of homosexuality which allows people to “come out” and live a life of perversity. I view this as bad. I’m saying it was better when society condemned gay sex. In fact the condemnation of gay sex is the only one that is still out there today… I think society needs to once again not only condemn that, but to condemn all sex outside of marriage, as well as divorce. AS IT USED TO.

So… THAT is a bad thing. The fact that society is more accepting of sin. Society needs to realize that all people with SSA are called to celibacy.** It affects me because I don’t like evil. I don’t think anyone should practice evil. Secondly, of course. The Catholic Church has a proper view of sexuality: no sex outside of marriage. So how are sodomy and adultery not equatable? Both are outside a sexually healthy relationship.

No. You haven’t seen the extent of religiously led societies. I hate it when atheists say this because it’s just plain not true. There hasn’t been a Christian theocracy in your lifetime. So what are you doing, comparing us to Muslim theocracies? In your lifetime when have you seen a society being led by Christianity? When? I would love to know.

Oh believe me, it’s still possible. If you knew anything about the economic and social teachings of the Catholic Church you’d realize they oppose globalization BIG TIME. It’s called “subsidarity”. It means: the smallest unit that can handle the issue should. In other words: more homeschooling, more local autonomy, more states rights (when states are the smallest unit… often times the city or county will be the smallest unit to oversee the issue).

Why not just try to make everybody celibate (single, married, divorced, etc.)?
That (celibacy) is the Catholic ideal.

Granted, it wouldn’t be practical.
But when has that ever stopped the Catholic Church before?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

AngryAtheist

Granted, it wouldn’t be practical.
But when has that ever stopped the Catholic Church before?

You’re not just angry. You’re also silly.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

AngryAtheist

Granted, it wouldn’t be practical.
But when has that ever stopped the Catholic Church before?

You’re not just angry. You’re also silly.

Perhaps.
But all religion is somewhat silly:shrug:

 

[ManOnFire]

No, that’s not at all what they’re saying. That behavioral genetics poses unique difficulties compared to, say, physiological genetics doesn’t mean we have no way of determining to what extent our genetics affect our behavior.

A few posters have mentioned this already and to my knowledge I’m the only person, so far, to actually post any research, none of which speaks to a correlation between sexual abuse and orientation, and from what meager bit I have been able to read of the scientific literature, this conclusion is not supported by the evidence. Care to cite some studies?

It poses unique difficulties because there may never be enough proof to discern association vs causation.

The Archives of Sexual Behavior reports: “One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender.”

Marie, E. Tomeo, et al., “Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539.

In other words, kids who were molested by adults from the same gender have a much higher than the 2% average tendency to be homosexuals, indicating that it most certainly can be created.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I doubt the rise of homosexuality is due to women’s rights-- the fact is that society is becoming more secular and homosexuality is becoming accepted (finally) as a norm. Lots of homosexuals who would ordinarily hide their homosexuality from strict families now have more secular traditions that make coming out easier. There is comfort in acceptance.

How you can tell me that you know what homosexuals are saying is beyond me, and how this in turn reduces women’s power is even stranger to me. And I can’t possibly fathom how this is like rape at all, it almost sounds like you are blaming homosexuals for coming out

No comment on the OP, however I do on the portion of your quote which I bolded.

And after ‘comfort in acceptance,’ what? This does not explain that in the Netherlands and Sweden, for example, countries with very open and highly secularized societies where homosexuals, ahead of their counterparts in the U.S. for years, have been freely associating and ‘marrying,’but remain at significant risk for morbid depression and suicide. These are also countries where a majority of the population is atheistic or does not have a faith affiliation.

Western humanism is tottering. It was born in the cradle of religious belief and is grounded on the twin cornerstones of respect for reason and awe at the dignity of mankind. But it is quavering in a crisis of self-confidence. Religion is shut up in a closet. The ambit of reason is restricted to only those things which can be touched and measured. And human dignity is being suffocated by technology.

If the ideal society is thoroughly secular, why is depression one of the leading causes of disability? Even before he became Pope, Benedict has stressed that Christianity, Catholicism in particular, offers a coherent answer to man’s search for happiness.

The Pope rightly questions moral relativism. He reminds us that if reason cannot deal with intangible issues like what is good and what is just, they will be defined by whoever is most powerful.

If our society offers young people unprecedented opportunities for freedom, why are so many slaves to drugs, sex and consumerism? Fortunately we see a glimmer of hope. Many youth, those who attended World Youth Day, are responding to the Pope’s vision of a freedom based on truth and commitment. What Christianity offers is infinitely more attractive than gadgets and eroticism. This crop of young people looks to liberation from shallowness, apathy and self-absorption which deaden our souls and poison human relationships.

Indented paragraphs excerpted/paraphrased from Soldiering On
,

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Reason without God becomes a tyrant in her own right. Look at the Prophetess of Reason, Ayn Rand, and the personal hell she created for those around her.

 

[couponfit]

I suggest that the recent rise of homosexuality is a reaction made by a patriarchical culture to the movement to give women equal rights. Homosexuals are trying to derive women even of the status in human relationships.

A homosexual is effectively saying “I can go ahead and have a sexual relationship without including women, without having the consent of a woman.” Homosexuality seems to be all about reducing the power and status of women- of making them unnecessary. I think, in spirit and effect, it is almost akin to rape.

Does anyone else see it this way?

I think that would make more sense if there weren’t so many lesbians. From what I can tell there are more lesbians than homosexual men.

 

[Gaber]

I suggest that the recent rise of homosexuality is a reaction made by a patriarchical culture to the movement to give women equal rights. Homosexuals are trying to derive women even of the status in human relationships.

A homosexual is effectively saying “I can go ahead and have a sexual relationship without including women, without having the consent of a woman.” Homosexuality seems to be all about reducing the power and status of women- of making them unnecessary. I think, in spirit and effect, it is almost akin to rape.

Does anyone else see it this way?

All this tells me is that you have an exceptionally nieve “understanding” of homosexuality.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

All this tells me is that you have an exceptionally nieve “understanding” of homosexuality.

This theory also fails to account for the existence of Lesbians.

 

[Gaber]

Why Can’t I Own a Canadian?

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It’s funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

 

[fix]

Why Can’t I Own a Canadian?

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

Of course, a facile reading of Scripture would lead one to hold such erroneous views.