Homosexuality / Chastity

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See above. Friendship ok. Quasi couple relationship, not ok. I think we are all on same page?
Yip sounds like it.

Catechism:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
ion.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
 
I can only speak for myself here, but as a gay man who recently returned to the Church after a very long time away and who is working on developing chastity (and wow is it a struggle), I agree that it is important to make a distinction between a platonic relationship and one that has the potential for being a near occasion. I have several very close gay friends (straight friends as well) who I travel with, spend a lot of time with and are very affectionate with. Since we are not attracted to each other sexually, I have never felt temptation, lust or that being with them is any type of near occasion of sin. One of my friends and I are so close that people assume we are a couple but we have never been anything but platonic. So long way of saying - if there is no sexual attraction, I would be comfortable with living with the person. If there is any type of sexual attraction, then I would feel like I either was playing with fire, seeing how well I could “control myself” or looking to get hurt emotionally. Hope this helps some. And thanks to everyone for being here.
 
I can only speak for myself here, but as a gay man who recently returned to the Church after a very long time away and who is working on developing chastity (and wow is it a struggle), I agree that it is important to make a distinction between a platonic relationship and one that has the potential for being a near occasion. I have several very close gay friends (straight friends as well) who I travel with, spend a lot of time with and are very affectionate with. Since we are not attracted to each other sexually, I have never felt temptation, lust or that being with them is any type of near occasion of sin. One of my friends and I are so close that people assume we are a couple but we have never been anything but platonic. So long way of saying - if there is no sexual attraction, I would be comfortable with living with the person. If there is any type of sexual attraction, then I would feel like I either was playing with fire, seeing how well I could “control myself” or looking to get hurt emotionally. Hope this helps some. And thanks to everyone for being here.
Welcome back to the Church, tmslax, and may God bless your efforts to be chaste! 👍
 
Can homosexuals morally enter into chaste relationships? For companionship, for example.
I don’t exactly get what your question is. Please elaborate on it. What do you mean by a “chaste relationship”? If you elaborate on how you would define a chaste relationship, then I can answer your question.
 
Grace & Peace!
…]I agree that it is important to make a distinction between a platonic relationship and one that has the potential for being a near occasion.
It is indeed important to make such a distinction. But making this distinction implies that we should know just what it is between which we’re distinguishing.

A platonic relationship isn’t a usual friendship or even a very close friendship. It’s a chaste relationship of intense intimacy in which a Lover looks upon his or her Beloved and the love they share between them as a way of understanding and participating in the Divine. Physical attraction is not indulged, but not dismissed–it gives way, through the maturation of the relationship, to appreciation and love of the Divine in the Beloved, the beauty and attractiveness of whom reflects the beauty of God. In this way, “vulgar eros” (to use Plato’s terms) gives way to “Divine Eros.” Or, to reference the words of Benedict XVI in Deus Caritas Est, eros blossoms into agape. We find ourselves being for the one we love in a way that is much more profound than simple attraction, and we find that that being for is a way of living into a life of love that is intimately related to the Trinitarian Life of God.

You could argue that such a relationship is impossible or fundamentally immoral for same-sex attracted people–that only the virtues of “disinterested friendship” are available to them in the process of living more deeply into their humanity because the thing in them by which they apprehend and respond to human beauty or human relationships is so fundamentally broken, obscured, untrustworthy or radically disordered that it must be ignored, destroyed or repressed. And if you wish to make this argument, we can explore together the ramifications such an argument has on how we are to understand human desire, concupiscence and theological anthropology more broadly. But suffice to say, I don’t think an authentically Catholic argument for such a position can be made–that is, you can make this argument that a platonic relationship as I have described it is impossible for same-sex attracted people, but after all of the ramifications of the argument have been worked out, you’ll discover that the positions you need to hold in order to make the argument look more like grotesque versions of classical protestant positions than actual Catholic ones.

I maintain that against such a relationship as I have described no legitimate law can be made.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
Catechism:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
 
Grace & Peace!
Catechism:

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
Indeed. And nothing I wrote above contradicts what you quoted.👍

Odiosa restringenda, favorabilia amplianda.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
If what is meant is a “romantic” or “couple” relationship – such would not be open for those of the same gender. Rather disinterested friendship. Friendship not “being a couple”.

Such is a path to even high holiness.
 
If what is meant is a “romantic” or “couple” relationship – such would not be open for those of the same gender. Rather disinterested friendship. Friendship not “being a couple”.

Such is a path to even high holiness.
Romantic, by definition, means sexual, therefore, any “romantic relationship”, between two people of the same gender, by definition, is a homosexual relationship, which is sinful.
 
Romantic, by definition, means sexual, therefore, any “romantic relationship”, between two people of the same gender, by definition, is a homosexual relationship, which is sinful.
I noted that such was not open to persons with SSA…

but rather Friendships.
 
I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Please elaborate.
That I am NOT saying that those with SAA “can” have “same gender” relationships of a romantic or “couple” kind.

They can have though have * friendships* with both genders.

Which is even a help towards great holiness.
 
Grace & Peace!

It is indeed important to make such a distinction. But making this distinction implies that we should know just what it is between which we’re distinguishing.

A platonic relationship isn’t a usual friendship or even a very close friendship. It’s a chaste relationship of intense intimacy in which a Lover looks upon his or her Beloved and the love they share between them as a way of understanding and participating in the Divine. Physical attraction is not indulged, but not dismissed–it gives way, through the maturation of the relationship, to appreciation and love of the Divine in the Beloved, the beauty and attractiveness of whom reflects the beauty of God. In this way, “vulgar eros” (to use Plato’s terms) gives way to “Divine Eros.” Or, to reference the words of Benedict XVI in Deus Caritas Est, eros blossoms into agape. We find ourselves being for the one we love in a way that is much more profound than simple attraction, and we find that that being for is a way of living into a life of love that is intimately related to the Trinitarian Life of God.

You could argue that such a relationship is impossible or fundamentally immoral for same-sex attracted people–that only the virtues of “disinterested friendship” are available to them in the process of living more deeply into their humanity because the thing in them by which they apprehend and respond to human beauty or human relationships is so fundamentally broken, obscured, untrustworthy or radically disordered that it must be ignored, destroyed or repressed. And if you wish to make this argument, we can explore together the ramifications such an argument has on how we are to understand human desire, concupiscence and theological anthropology more broadly. But suffice to say, I don’t think an authentically Catholic argument for such a position can be made–that is, you can make this argument that a platonic relationship as I have described it is impossible for same-sex attracted people, but after all of the ramifications of the argument have been worked out, you’ll discover that the positions you need to hold in order to make the argument look more like grotesque versions of classical protestant positions than actual Catholic ones.

I maintain that against such a relationship as I have described no legitimate law can be made.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Eloquently stated, Mark. I think it boils down to the simple reality that it is fine to be friends/have a friendly relationship with anyone of either sex. It is not fine to have sex or to want to have sex with all of the same. Only thee individual person can truly determine within their own heart and soul what they feel for another person. Even if a relationship starts out in the first type–if it begins to stray illicitly toward the second–even in one’s mind–then they have answered the question and need to leave the relationship.👍
 
Grace & Peace!
A platonic relationship isn’t a usual friendship or even a very close friendship. It’s a chaste relationship of intense intimacy in which a Lover looks upon his or her Beloved and the love they share between them as a way of understanding and participating in the Divine. Physical attraction is not indulged, but not dismissed–it gives way, through the maturation of the relationship, to appreciation and love of the Divine in the Beloved, the beauty and attractiveness of whom reflects the beauty of God. In this way, “vulgar eros” (to use Plato’s terms) gives way to “Divine Eros.” Or, to reference the words of Benedict XVI in Deus Caritas Est, eros blossoms into agape. We find ourselves being for the one we love in a way that is much more profound than simple attraction, and we find that that being for is a way of living into a life of love that is intimately related to the Trinitarian Life of God.
I don’t think the previous poster meant “Platonic” in this sense, but rather in the (common usage) sense of “not romantic”.

But putting that aside, how does such a relationship as you have described come about? What stages would it pass through? Does is grow out of a romantic love? And a related question - why does it evolve to forsake the physical?
 
That I am NOT saying that those with SAA “can” have “same gender” relationships of a romantic or “couple” kind.

They can have though have * friendships* with both genders.

Which is even a help towards great holiness.
What’s SAA? And what’s the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship?
 
What’s SAA? And what’s the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship?
SSA is a political term. Meaning Same Sex Attraction.

If you don’t know the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship you got some problems… Better to not get married until you understand that.😉
 
But what’s the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship?
If you don’t know the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship you got some problems… Better to not get married until you understand that.
 
What’s SAA? And what’s the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship?
Same sex attraction.

Friends are well friends.

Romantic is … like boy friend- girl friend…or going on “dates”…showing such signs of affection beyond normal friends that sort of thing…
 
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