Homosexuality equal to contraceptive use?

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“Gay marriage is wrong because marriage is and has always been ordained toward bringing children into the world, something that a gay relationship, by its very nature, is not able to do. Introduce contraception into the marriage, and children become a mere option. Our contraceptive mentality has put heterosexuals and homoseuals on a level playing field.”…This is a piece from the May 16th issue of OSV written by Stephen Gabriel.

There was a similar comment made by a guest on EWTN. I totally disagree. Yes, contraceptive use is wrong, but how can it be equal to a homosexual life style?
Also, I beieve that fornication, adultrey, pornography, and adultrey have all helped to open the door for the gay rights movement. If the majority of our society lives in an immoral way and it’s accepted, then it was inevitable that the gay community would follow suite.
I live in the bible belt where there is literally a church on every corner and most are full on Sunday mornings. Homosexuals are rare and if someone “comes out of the closet” they usually move to another state where it is more acceptable.
Heterosexuals living together is another story. It is widely accepted here. I know many people who do and who have in the past lived together. In no way is this lifestyle condemned, but homosexulaity is not tolerated.
I do believe homosexuality to be a sin, but I also believe fornication is equally bad. We are the reason for the gay movement because of our sinful lifestyles. KK says it’s worse because it’s against nature. I do understand his point, but I believe God is just as offended by sex sins of the heterosexual.
Karl made a comment that was the opposite of the one made by Mr. Gabriel.

Karl’s comment: “Fornication is a sin and a serious one, but at least it has the “virtue” (if that is the right word) of following nature: one man, one woman. Homosexual acts do not have that “virtue” and so are further away from being rightly ordered (that is, ordered toward their true end). This makes them more seriously sinful, all things else being equal.”

I’m comfused! I do not believe homosexuality is more offensive to God than fornication, but I also don’t believe contraceptive use is equal to homosexuality. At least marriage between two heterosexuals is considered valid by the Church.
Any comments on this one? I’m here to learn, not to debate. If I’m wrong I’m wrong…but is I’m right that’s better 😃
Thanks!
 
Contracteption, homosexual activity, masturbation – basically all the same thing. Pleasure divorced from procreation

from A Defeaning Silence by Steve Skellmeyer, discussing the relationship between homosexual marriage and contraception and why they are both just part of the same package.
skellmeyer.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_skellmeyer_archive.html#108810144157807754

**The reason we can’t make the case [against gay marriage] is we don’t have a case, not anymore. You see, contraception within marriage redefined marriage, just as the Washington Post and the Pope predicted it would back in the 1930’s. Once contraception is acceptable, marriage is no longer about family, it is now about me. Now every relationship hinges on one thing: what’s in it for me? **

The public acceptance of gay sex and gay marriage is functionally identical to public acceptance of contraception. Heterosexual contraception has already brought us legal abortion, a fifty percent divorce rate and a pornographic society: all of these problems mushroomed only after contraception was legalized. Gay marriage is just contraception without the chemicals or condoms. How can you convince a woman on the pill or a man with a wallet full of condoms that gay marriage is going to harm heterosexual marriage?

It can’t be done because it isn’t true. Marriage was dealt a death-blow when the Protestant Comstock laws were struck down. Once we were no longer permitted to forbid the manufacture or sale of contraceptives, we lost the ability to deal with deliberately sterilized sex in any form whatsoever. Like masturbation, gay sex and gay marriage are just another form of contraception. Indeed, the beauty of gay marriage is that their divorces are much less likely to impact children, since they will, by definition, tend not to have any. Contracepting heterosexuals know a kindred spirit when they see one. They certainly aren’t going to cast a stone at gays.

The move to amend the Constitution to defend heterosexual marriage will fail. If it succeeds, it will follow Prohibition in being repealed. It cannot be otherwise.
 
Yes, contraceptive use is wrong, but how can it be equal to a homosexual life style?
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It is the same on at least two levels. First, both contraception and homosexual acts are considered “grave matter” by the Catholic Church, and when done with complete understanding and consent, both become mortal sins. Second, the reason that each act is sinful is the same, namely that the sexual faculties are being perverted by denying the possibility of a child. They both go against natural law by circumventing the primary reason for sexual intercourse.

I would agree with you that homosexuality is a “worse” sin than contraception because there is more sin compounded on each other. Homosexual activity is a sin that “cries out to Heaven for vengeance”. It is explicitly prohibited in Scripture numerous times, both in the Old and New Testaments. But, once you reach the level of mortal sin, I think you can rightly say that they are all “equal”, in that any of them will destroy our relationship with God.
 
Findnmway said:
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I do believe homosexuality to be a sin, but I also believe fornication is equally bad.You will find your answers to this question in the words of the CCC and the OT.

Findnmway said:
"I believe God is just as offended by sex sins of the heterosexual.
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The CCC describes both of these acts with the same words.

Findnmway said:
"I’m comfused! I do not believe homosexuality is more offensive to God than fornication,
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The OT describes homosexual acts in much stronger terms as fornication. This in no way minimuzes fornication. The question is, would you rather be killed by a .357 or a .44 magnum? The answer is simple, neither.
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Findnmway:
Yes, contraceptive use is wrong, but how can it be equal to a homosexual life style?

Thanks!
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Natural Law tells us that the sex act’s primary end is procreation (it’s secondary end is unitive love of the spouses). The following acts pervert the sex act in the same way-- they render it sterile and seek pleasure without procreation:

Contraception, homosexual acts, masturbation-- either mutual or solo, oral sex without genital sex, bestiality

Therefore, from a natural law perspective they are equivalent acts, all grave and violating the procreative end of marriage.

The above mentioned items are different from adultery & fornication (which are equally grave but a different violation against marriage, they violate the unitive dimension).

The reason Contraception and Homosexual Sex are specifically linked is because the acceptance of contraception in the last 30 years as “normal” is a key component of the “sex without babies” mentality that leads to acceptance of homosexual and other deviant sexual behaviors. If sex was still understood to have the primary end of babies, and if people still believed contraception was a disorder act that destroys the natural end of sex/marriage, then homosexual sex could NEVER have a foothold in society.
 
The other problem homosexuality causes is that you no longer have a man and a woman together in marriage. It is much better to be bringing up a child or children in a marriage of a man and a woman who use contraception, than to have these kids brought up in a homosexual environment.

The sin of homosexuality goes way beyond the sex. It is in my opinion the greatest sin of this generation. (next to abortion.)
 
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Buckeyejoe:
The other problem homosexuality causes is that you no longer have a man and a woman together in marriage. It is much better to be bringing up a child or children in a marriage of a man and a woman who use contraception, than to have these kids brought up in a homosexual environment.
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I would not assume that a man and woman who use contraception are that much better parents. There is a very strong link between contraception and divorce rate, so it is more likely that a couple using contraception will hurt their children through divorce. Not what I would consider good parenting. Maybe better than a homosexual couple, but still not role-models.
 
There is a saying that goes “make an honest woman out of her” or something like that.

This is to explain how different fornication is from homosexuality. If a couple that has been fornicating gets married, the relationship is “regularized” for lack of a better word. (now this would take into account that none is being adulterous, which would be a compounding sin, there are no other impediments, etc, etc.)

No matter what a homosexual couple does, that relationship can never be “regularized” in God’s eyes. It goes against the order of nature and law that He established.

Society on the other hand, starts thinking differently, straying from God’s word and giving in to not only physical impulses, but what can be called abherrant (abhorrent?) behaviour.

Now as far as the comment of contraception putting homosexuality on a level field, I can’t really see the connection. It is natural for a man and a woman to want to get together. How is it natural for a man and a man or a woman and a woman to get together? Does someone out there know of any gay animals? (that is pure nature, no thought) I’m not trying to make light of this issue, I really would like to know.

I don’t care how strong the attraction is. Some parts were never supposed to be put together. God allows a lot of things to happen, and He will allow the consequences of those actions to take full effect also, in this life and the next.

BGlez
 
I believe that the state of being homosexual is not a sin. Only homosexual acts are a sin. Sex was meant to be between a man and a woman in a marriage through the church. i don’t care what the government says, marriage between two men or two women is not a real marriage.

Sex before marriage is a definite sin because sex is a gift meant to be saved for marriage, and since there is no such thing as a “real” homosexual marriage through the church, any sexual acts between two human beings (gay or straight) outside of marriage is a sin.

I’m not sure if there are any churches or denominations that have started to allow gay marriages in there parish, but if they did, that would be and invalid marriage, it says clearly in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, and no matter what people think in this present day, that can never be changed.

The creation of marriage is recorded in Genesis 2:23-24: “The man said, ‘This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called “woman,” for she was taken out of man.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.” God created man and then made woman to complement him. Marriage is God’s “fix” for the fact that “it is not good for the man to be alone” (Genesis 2:18).

Bam! woman completes man, so man alone is not a complete union it says here in Genesis. Sexual relations between man and man or woman and woman are not complete and are not moral through the eyes of God. If you call yourself a believer in Christ you must believe in everything that He believes in without question.
Even if you cannot comprehend why you should believe in something that God says for yourself, just the fact that it is written in God’s word is reason enough. We do not have to understand everything that God commands us to do, because we are human, we are not equal to God, therefore, there are things that many of us will never be able to comprehend at His level, and that is where faith comes in.
 
Dr.Colossus said:
It is the same on at least two levels. First, both contraception and homosexual acts are considered “grave matter” by the Catholic Church, and when done with complete understanding and consent, both become mortal sins. Second, the reason that each act is sinful is the same, namely that the sexual faculties are being perverted by denying the possibility of a child. They both go against natural law by circumventing the primary reason for sexual intercourse.

I would agree with you that homosexuality is a “worse” sin than contraception because there is more sin compounded on each other. Homosexual activity is a sin that “cries out to Heaven for vengeance”. It is explicitly prohibited in Scripture numerous times, both in the Old and New Testaments. But, once you reach the level of mortal sin, I think you can rightly say that they are all “equal”, in that any of them will destroy our relationship with God.
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Well…I don’t think the case can be made that homosexuals are guilty of contraception any more than someone who masturbates or engages in oral sex*. Those who engage in homosexual sex do not have the intent of preventing pregnancy, such being an impossible outcome.

Otherwise, I agree with your excellent post. 👍

*Aside from those who do have the intent of avoiding pregnancy with their hetersexual partners.
 
It’s simple.

Catholic rank and file have accepted contraception regardless of what the Vatican says. So many are engaged in contraception, and so many have close friends and relatives, there is no room for condemnation. The people have decided.

They have not accepted homosxuality, and there are far fewer connections between individual Catholics and homosexuals. The connections keep increasing, but they are nowhere as numerous as with contraceptors.

As the older Catholic cohorts die off, and the younger cohorts age, we will see the same phenomenon with homosxuality that we saw with contraception. The people will decide.

So, homosexuality becomes the fashionable sin to denounce. It’s always easier to point fingers at some stranger than look in the mirror.
 
This thread is FIVE YEARS OLD.

Is there a reason that this has been resurrected?
 
Bran09044952 said:
Sex before marriage is a definite sin because sex is a gift meant to be saved for marriage, and since there is no such thing as a “real” homosexual marriage through the church, any sexual acts between two human beings (gay or straight) outside of marriage is a sin.
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Actually, sex outside of marriage is a sin because the marital embrace is a renewal of the sacrament of matrimony. You cannot renew a sacrament that does not exist. At least, that’s the Catholic theology as I understand it. (biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/marriage_and_the_eucharist.mp3 – it’s approximately an hour long lecture from a Catholic apologist on the topic)
I’m not sure if there are any churches or denominations that have started to allow gay marriages in there parish, but if they did, that would be and invalid marriage, it says clearly in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, and no matter what people think in this present day, that can never be changed.
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Yes their, unfortunately, are churches that have begun to recognize them. However, I am not certain if any entire denominations have. I agree that marriage is between a man and a woman. I also feel that the state does not perform marriages but instead performs civil unions.
 
1ke said:
This thread is FIVE YEARS OLD.

Is there a reason that this has been resurrected?
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I didn’t even notice that, I just noticed that it was at the top of the list. Maybe someone hit it on a search engine and didn’t realize how old it was. I hit an old thread from this site with google once.
 
Newbie2 said:
What, don’t you like the concept of resurrection? 😃
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Well, it’s considered “thread necromancy” and since necromancy involves black or at least questionable magick, the Church is opposed to that. :: Mischievous::
 
Yes, civil unions are not marriages. People that are married through law, it’s not the same as being married throuhg the church, it’s not a sacrament.*
 
Bran09044952 said:
Yes, civil unions are not marriages. People that are married through law, it’s not the same as being married throuhg the church, it’s not a sacrament.*

Civil marriage is a creation of the statel egislature. it makes no claim to being a sacrament.
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WillieWonka said:
Yes, civil unions are not marriages. People that are married through law, it’s not the same as being married throuhg the church, it’s not a sacrament.
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Civil marriage is a creation of the statel egislature. it makes no claim to being a sacrament.

A sacramental marriage has three requirements for validity. They are called the three goods of marriage, 1) Fidelity 2) Permanence 3) Openness to new life. Civil marriages are 0 for 3, so you are absolutely correct.

Way back in 1986 our diocese required Natural Family Planning classes for marriage preparation. Our instructor told us then that once you accept the contraceptive mentallity and separate sex from procreation, there is no reasonable basis to exclude homosexual acts, beastiality, or sex with fruits, vegatables or machines. She was right.
 
evangelizationstation.com…y_marriage.htm

i posted this link on another thread but not many people saw it so i will post it here as well since it is relevant to the discussion. its a back and forth discussion on why gay marriage doesnt make sense for secular reasons. some very good points are made and the conncection with homosexual relationships and contracepting couples is brought up.
 
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