Homosexuality, heterosexuality and why we cant agree

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In the human race, some are born to hate and sin. I understand this, but why cant those of us, heterosexual or homosexual, just agree that love is love? Love is love no mater what shape or form. For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right. I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? Why cant people accept that what you say wont more than likely change someones firm opinions on something?
 
I try and force no one in to heterosexuality, but try to persuade out of sin. I don’t know whether homosexuals can be “converted” to heterosexuality. Some say yes, some say no. That’s a topic for another post or another thread. The point isn’t to be “converted” to straightness, but to be convicted of sin, experience contrition, and convert the soul away from it and towards matters that do not offend God, and to avoid obstinately persisting in mortal sin which God has declared shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

A homosexual celibate and a heterosexual married individual - which sins more? Neither. A homosexual fornicator and a heterosexual fornicator - which sins more? Both.

All sexualities most definitely are not right - the Church takes a strong stance on this, as featured in the Catechism, a score of papal encyclicals, and backed up by Aristotelian philosophy. All “love” is “love”, but you run in to a major problem when you define “love” to include that which arises from disordered lust alone, and does not and can not proceed “from an authentic sexual and emotional complementarity”. Love is love - but homosexual sexual relationships are built on lust. Some things are right, some things are wrong, and these definitions come from natural law and revelation, not from “whatever feels good” or personal opinion.

For the record, I do not read anything about gay rights - which are a contradiction in terms, as gays should have no rights per se: gays are human, and should have human rights, as all other human beings do; no more, no less - or homosexuality, until it is forced in my face by the legislature or by some similar act. I don’t seek it out. Further on “rights”: Membership in closed organizations, such as religion, or participation in their rites, is not a human right (to speak of this is to speak of having “Protestant rights” to have the right to receive communion at the Catholic Church, or “Catholic rights” to have the entire world pray to the Saints and believe in the Sacrifice of the Mass or Real Presence). To speak of “gay rights”, like “womens’ rights”, beyond “support for gays and women having full human rights” (which I do support) is to speak of discrimination at its finest.

In sinful sexual behaviors, I do believe some people hold a double standard between homosexual and straight, as others hold it between men and women. All should be held to the same level: to not sin. A fornicating man is no less nor more sinful than a fornicating woman, and a chaste person with homosexual tendencies sins no more than a celibate heterosexual such as myself, nor a married heterosexual couple.
 
I was in a same-sex relationship for a long time. Please believe me, it is not the same as an opposite-sex relationship. You cannot judge it unless you have done it- please consider that without personal knowledge of the inner experience of homosexuality, you cannot know that it is actually love and not something disordered and harmful.

It’s true, love is love- and the Church teaches that the sacrificial, platonic love between two people in a same-sex relationship is valid and real (in the sense of friendship)- but that the sexual element of these relationships are not rooted in love. In our culture we are taught that love is synonymous with sexual desire- in fact sexual desire is far inferior to, and only points to, true sacrificial love.

Seeking sex with another person like oneself springs from a difficulty in loving and respecting oneself. It is an attempt to fill a void created by that difficulty.
There is no mystery in it- neither party is really and completely giving the self to the other- but only seeking to find the self.

Please prayerfully consider this with an open mind.
 
You definitely speak from a personal experience:thumbsup: I have 2 family members-one gay and one transgender and devout catholic which led me to go from looking down on them to just reconsidering that some may not genuinely choose their orientation. he transgender used to cut on himself out of depression until he got the needed love and support from some family members and 2 priests-I guess some cases-one can be physically a female yet genetically a male-explains why some feels trapped in a wrong body thing. I used to make fun of these folks and felt that it was a choice. I now have a few friends who are transgender-one is a single mom (was a male) and realized that in some cases-there are valid explanation. How can I judge something that I don’t fully understand myself? As for the gay family member-I feel that it is not a sin to be gay-but to act out is another thing-relations outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is wrong and against how God designed us. So I am in the middle personally-I am against gay bashing and bullying-it is plain wrong yet don’t condone sinful behavior. And that includes bullying in addition to acting out in sin sexually. Both are wrong, period. I am happy to read your post from someone who can speak from both sides of the fence.🙂
I was in a same-sex relationship for a long time. Please believe me, it is not the same as an opposite-sex relationship. You cannot judge it unless you have done it- please consider that without personal knowledge of the inner experience of homosexuality, you cannot know that it is actually love and not something disordered and harmful.

It’s true, love is love- and the Church teaches that the sacrificial, platonic love between two people in a same-sex relationship is valid and real (in the sense of friendship)- but that the sexual element of these relationships are not rooted in love. In our culture we are taught that love is synonymous with sexual desire- in fact sexual desire is far inferior to, and only points to, true sacrificial love.

Seeking sex with another person like oneself springs from a difficulty in loving and respecting oneself. It is an attempt to fill a void created by that difficulty.
There is no mystery in it- neither party is really and completely giving the self to the other- but only seeking to find the self.

Please prayerfully consider this with an open mind.
 
👍👍 Khalid and phooie

both excellent posts

Lo Sono Amore, you profess to be Catholic but your OP is filled with misstatements of the Catholic belief re homosexuality. There are numerous resources available to educate yourself. Please take advantage of them.

start here: catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality
 
I read things about homosexual relationships in order to try to understand. I don’t condone or condemn a non-sexual relationship between any two people. I so believe that love is love. However there are three kinds of love: christian love or “agape”, brotherly love “philos” and sexual or married love “eros”. Agape and philos are appropriate in all situations; but eros is appropriate only for a validly married bisexual couple because it involves procreation as an expression of that love, something that is impossible for single sex couples.

Heterosexuals are not allowed to have sexual relations outside a valid Catholic marriage relationship, and neither are homosexual couples. Since Catholic marriage is, by definition, not possible between same sex couples, sexual activities between them are not allowed.
 
Lo Sono Amore, you profess to be Catholic but your OP is filled with misstatements of the Catholic belief re homosexuality.
Not only about that, but about something even more basic and intrinsic to humanity than that:
In the human race, some are born to hate and sin.
Nothing could be further from the Truth. It is fundamental to Catholicism that every human being was born to love, and that every human being was created for ultimate union with God, in this life and the next.

And as the poster phoooiee understands well from experience:
the Church teaches that the sacrificial, platonic love between two people in a same-sex relationship is valid and real (in the sense of friendship)- but that the sexual element of these relationships are not rooted in love. In our culture we are taught that love is synonymous with sexual desire- in fact sexual desire is far inferior to, and only points to, true sacrificial love.

Seeking sex with another person like oneself springs from a difficulty in loving and respecting oneself. It is an attempt to fill a void created by that difficulty.
There is no mystery in it- neither party is really and completely giving the self to the other
 
In the human race, some are born to hate and sin.
No we all are. Hence the expression children of wrath.
… but why cant those of us, heterosexual or homosexual, just agree that love is love?
That would accomplish nothing. We also agree that death is death and a bridge is a bridge, but it doesn’t alter the problem. Sodomy is not “love.” It’s a violent act by its very nature (being as it is violently opposed to nature).
Love is love no mater what shape or form.
No. There is Divine Love too and also Supernatural Charity, which is a grace. Now grace builds on nature and, therefore, if nature be vitiated, corrupted or perverted grace has no foundation to build on, which is why conversion is so important while we yet are living.
For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right.
Pedophilia too?
I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? Why cant people accept that what you say wont more than likely change someones firm opinions on something?
Ummm. Huge swaths of the world were converted to this religion called Christianity because of what a few men were saying, which I assure you was very much contrary to their original opinions.
 
Genetics = Physical body. Transsexual is a mental condition that Freud would have had a field day with. Homosexuality, I believe, is mainly chosen - just as one chooses to become an alcoholic or a drug addict, but can have a genetic proclivity to it - but may not necessarily be changeable once the initial choice is made (that is, an alcoholic never becomes a normal, non-alcoholic person again, even if clean for 20 years; a heroin addict never becomes a normal, non-junky again, even if he’s clean from the drug itself: pathways in the brain, etc. [insert neurochemistry here] are changed permanently).
Is a single mom [sic] (was [sic] a male)
That is, is a single father, and is and always will be male. No amount of hormonal injections or plastic surgery can change our essence, or form. That’s where the concept of “identity” itself comes from, identity that persists even though physical changes (at least in Aristotelianism, I don’t know what some of these mechanistic quacks are preaching in the lecture halls today). I doubt that even if genetic engineering were available to remove the “Y” chromosome from a male and duplicate his “X” chromosome, that he would stop being male, because his form or essence (or soul) is not dependent on the physical condition of his body. (I think I got that right - if I didn’t, replace the letters with the correct ones as you read: I proudly know as little as possible of biology: what little I do know is already too much.)

When that man dies (the one you speak of), he will be resurrected as male.
 
Lo Sono

**For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right. I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? **

Was Saint Paul being “rude” or “degrading” when he condemned sodomy?

Are you or are you not a Bible reading Catholic?
 
Genetics = Physical body. Transsexual is a mental condition that Freud would have had a field day with. Homosexuality, I believe, is mainly chosen - just as one chooses to become an alcoholic or a drug addict, but can have a genetic proclivity to it - but may not necessarily be changeable once the initial choice is made (that is, an alcoholic never becomes a normal, non-alcoholic person again, even if clean for 20 years; a heroin addict never becomes a normal, non-junky again, even if he’s clean from the drug itself: pathways in the brain, etc. [insert neurochemistry here] are changed permanently).

That is, is a single father, and is and always will be male. No amount of hormonal injections or plastic surgery can change our essence, or form. That’s where the concept of “identity” itself comes from, identity that persists even though physical changes (at least in Aristotelianism, I don’t know what some of these mechanistic quacks are preaching in the lecture halls today). I doubt that even if genetic engineering were available to remove the “Y” chromosome from a male and duplicate his “X” chromosome, that he would stop being male, because his form or essence (or soul) is not dependent on the physical condition of his body. (I think I got that right - if I didn’t, replace the letters with the correct ones as you read: I proudly know as little as possible of biology: what little I do know is already too much.)

When that man dies (the one you speak of), he will be resurrected as male.
If it were mainly chosen then why are there so many people who desperately want to get rid of the attractions and have never acted on them?

There are cases where people are genotype XY and phenotype XX (CAIS)
 
In the human race, some are born to hate and sin. I understand this, but why cant those of us, heterosexual or homosexual, just agree that love is love? Love is love no mater what shape or form. For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right. I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? Why cant people accept that what you say wont more than likely change someones firm opinions on something?
Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

Code:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *
It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.
 
Homosexuality is a perversion.

If you were open about this in an Islamic country they’d throw the bunch of you in a wood chipper. Then you pervs would go back in the closet where you belong.

Then our opinions on thousands of years of history on depravity wouldn’t matter to you. Would it?
 
Homosexuality is a perversion.

If you were open about this in an Islamic country they’d throw the bunch of you in a wood chipper. Then you pervs would go back in the closet where you belong.

Then our opinions on thousands of years of history on depravity wouldn’t matter to you. Would it?
I can’t help but to think how much help posts like this are to the pro-gay agenda. Wouldn’t it be better to speak respectfully?
If we cannot present the truth in love, no one can come to see the truth.
 
In the human race, some are born to hate and sin. I understand this, but why cant those of us, heterosexual or homosexual, just agree that love is love? Love is love no mater what shape or form. For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right. I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? Why cant people accept that what you say wont more than likely change someones firm opinions on something?
Love is a sacrificial idea for Catholics. We must practice it. In the case of homosexual persons, there is an attempt to make a one to one comparison between homosexual expression and heterosexual expression.

Opinions don’t matter, but it’s fine to ask questions. I invite you to read the following:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed
 
I can’t help but to think how much help posts like this are to the pro-gay agenda. Wouldn’t it be better to speak respectfully?
If we cannot present the truth in love, no one can come to see the truth.
I have to agree. If that was said on TV, the Matachin Group would have mobs of people trying to throw money at them.
 
What does love have to do with sex?

Ask a mother or her child. Ask siblings like my mother (widow) and aunt (spinster) who lived together and supported each other in old age, much as a husband and wife would except for the sexual aspect?

Sex can be an expression of love, or it can be wholly disordered (and that includes by straight people).

But love can also be expressed in many other ways than sex.
 
What does love have to do with sex?

Ask a mother or her child. Ask siblings like my mother (widow) and aunt (spinster) who lived together and supported each other in old age, much as a husband and wife would except for the sexual aspect?

Sex can be an expression of love, or it can be wholly disordered (and that includes by straight people).

But love can also be expressed in many other ways than sex.
In a situation like that wouldn’t it be perfectly reasonable for them to be able to designate the other as a “spouse” so that if one worked the other could get health care benefits or the other gets survivor’s benefits?
 
In the human race, some are born to hate and sin. I understand this, but why cant those of us, heterosexual or homosexual, just agree that love is love? Love is love no mater what shape or form. For me, I believe that whatever kind of sexuality is right. I would never degrade someones opinion on this, though. If you’re not a supporter of gay rights and homosexuality then why read things on it? Just to be rude and try to force someone who is uncomfortable into heterosexuality? Why cant people accept that what you say wont more than likely change someones firm opinions on something?
Okay, I’m homosexual and Catholic, and I don’t understand.
  1. Nobody is forcing me into heterosexuality. God has decided that heterosexuality is the way to go and I’m not going to argue. But how does that force me into heterosexuality? Am I being forced to sleep with a woman somehow? How?
  2. I used to have firm opinions on homosexuality and they have been changed. I was wrong. If two people who have firm but opposing opinions seek the truth in their discussions together and do not persist in being stubborn then those opinions, no matter how firm, are liable to change.
  3. Love is love? Okay, seriously, you are gonna have to stop with that airy fairy lovey dovey cr*p now because it doesn’t make sense to me. What sort of a statement is “love is love”? That’s like saying x=x. I’d like to know the value of x, please. So define love for me, because I think you are confusing it for something it is not. And tell me, how is my abusing the body of another man for my own sexual gratification love?
And I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll mention it again. I really, really love my German Shepherd. He is the best dog in the world. Must I have sex with him?
 
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