Homosexuality in geneology?

[anoynted1]

I’m still left with the same questions however. Why is the sin of homosexuality treated so differently than other sins? Why are homosexuals treated as if they are sinners at first glance-without knowledge of their culpability?/

QUOTE]

Because according to scripture, the glory of God is perpetuated when we are “Fruitful & multiply”.
Two men or two women cannot be “Fruitful & mulitply”, therefore they cannot bring God glory.
Sex has ben reduced to physical gratification only.

I also agree w/another post however that says homosexxuality, in this regard, is just as bad as any “straight” sexual sin.
Most people today aren’t trying to bring God glory, they only want to satisfy themselves.
When a person struggles w/sexual sin of any kind, their soul, which must give an account to God for the deeds done in the body, is begging & pleading for them to submit to God & not the will of the body.
As God’s people we’ve always “struggled” to do God’s will. The flesh is very convincing orater.

You have to make up your mind to live holy. No medicine, no therapy, no one “laying hands on you” will deliver you or make you better. Those things work in conjunction w/one’s desire to submit to the Will of God.

 

[Fitswimmer]

If you believe that being Gay is a choice, then you must admit that being heterosexual is a hoice.

So, do you desire or lust after those that are of the same gender as you?

No?

Do your friends know you are attracted to them, but have chosen not to foist your lust or desire for them onto their person? Do they know how hard it is for you, to desire them, but turn away? Do they respect you for refusing to flirt with them even though you really would like to?

I suspect, your heterosexual nature…is not a choice, but thankfully for you…your genetics fell on the most common side of the pile. You are straight.

Now…come across a gay person , who also claims they had no choice in the matter and you are calling them a liar. You are claiming they are “CHOOSING” their sexual identity.

You CANNOT have it both way’s…it cannot be a choice for THEM…and not a choice for you.

What if they aren’t choosing it? What if their sexual oreintation , was no descion they made, anymore than yours is? You didn’t CHOOSE to be straight you ARE straight. Be bloody grateful of that. What if, you were born with a desire to bed a person, who had the same physical make-up as you, and you didn’t even know why this was happening? What if some societies wanted to kill you for it, for the more liberal societies, they wanted you to spend a miserable life pretending it never happened?

Either admit you desire both genders, or admit…you had no say in it, and that it is therefore not a choice for either gay’s or straights.

I would LOVE to hear all the heterosexuals here admit, they desire a person of the same gender, but chose not to do it.

The thought probably revolts you…and yet you still think you’ve made a choice.

Shame on you, for the lies you tell yourselves.

Thank you for saying it so clearly.

Also, to the parents who bravely wrote about the acceptance of their gay children. I’ve been lucky enough to have parents who have shown me nothing but unconditional love-even though I’m sure they would have loved to have had a “normal” child who got married and gave them grandchildren. It takes a lot of courage to accept your gay children and continue to love them despite the views of others in the Church.

 

[Abbot_Mark_OSB]

I appreciate your comments, but it does not appear from them that you have actually read what I wrote earlier today.
If a person is a Catholic, he or she should accept the Catholic teaching, just as he or she should accept the rules of Catholic Forum, if they subscribe to it. If he or she is not a Catholic, he or she is not thus bound. But my point was, we all have struggles - I do not go into mine - and we all have failures - I do not go into mine - but what we all need more of is compassion, surely.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thanks for the concern but I’ve spent 30 years examining my issues as they relate to Catholic teaching. Thankfully, I have been privileged to have wonderful Priests and therapists who have helped me to accept myself as I am and to deal with the subtle messages that gay people receive from their well meaning brethren wishing to admonish them for their sin. I’m sure that most of them don’t believe that they hate us, or are afraid of us-but the message is there every time this issue comes up. I’ve shown these threads to my counselor-a Catholic-and portions of them to my Priest. Discussions of mental illness, personality disorders and the comparisons to serial killers, alcoholics, drug addicts and even dogs are subtle messages that we are not the same as “normal” people and therefore can be treated with less dignity, with less compassion and even violence against us is ok. No other group in the Catholic church has language like that thrown at them on a regular basis.

My counselor and my Priest have recommended that I stop from reading here-at least on this topic, because they both feel that my commitment to staying in the Catholic church and obeying Church teaching is in danger-not to mention my self-esteem.

I want to believe that everyone means well, and I had hoped to help people understand that those subtle messages not only exist, but they hurt. I feel badly that I’ve been unable to do that, I blame my own inadequacies and no one else.

 

[Abbot_Mark_OSB]

Thank you for that. I too have been in therapy, and have struggled with the issues, not always “successfully”. I am sorry if there is the least suggestion of hate in what I write and assure you that it is unconscious. Why not send me a private e-mail about this issue? People have urged me, too, to embrace my sexuality and abandon Catholic doctrine. But I will not, because I have made a commitment (which costs me dearly) to love in a deeper sense, as a Catholic priest and a monk, and because I believe the Catholic church does have the authority of Christ in its teaching magisterium. (That doesn’t mean that Catholics as individuals are necessarily holier or nearer God than anyone else). Please keep the thread going. This is fruitful, I believe

 

[Abbot_Mark_OSB]

Thank you for that. I too have been in therapy, and have struggled with the issues, not always “successfully”. I am sorry if there is the least suggestion of hate in what I write and assure you that it is unconscious. Why not send me a private e-mail about this issue? People have urged me, too, to embrace my sexuality and abandon Catholic doctrine. But I will not, because I have made a commitment (which costs me dearly) to love in a deeper sense, as a Catholic priest and a monk, and because I believe the Catholic church does have the authority of Christ in its teaching magisterium. (That doesn’t mean that Catholics as individuals are necessarily holier or nearer God than anyone else). Please keep the thread going. This is fruitful, I believe

 

[SilentKnight]

Thanks for the concern but I’ve spent 30 years examining my issues as they relate to Catholic teaching. Thankfully, I have been privileged to have wonderful Priests and therapists who have helped me to accept myself as I am and to deal with the subtle messages that gay people receive from their well meaning brethren wishing to admonish them for their sin. I’m sure that most of them don’t believe that they hate us, or are afraid of us-but the message is there every time this issue comes up. I’ve shown these threads to my counselor-a Catholic-and portions of them to my Priest. Discussions of mental illness, personality disorders and the comparisons to serial killers, alcoholics, drug addicts and even dogs are subtle messages that we are not the same as “normal” people and therefore can be treated with less dignity, with less compassion and even violence against us is ok. No other group in the Catholic church has language like that thrown at them on a regular basis.

My counselor and my Priest have recommended that I stop from reading here-at least on this topic, because they both feel that my commitment to staying in the Catholic church and obeying Church teaching is in danger-not to mention my self-esteem.

I want to believe that everyone means well, and I had hoped to help people understand that those subtle messages not only exist, but they hurt. I feel badly that I’ve been unable to do that, I blame my own inadequacies and no one else.

Fit,

Do you believe homosexual activity is sanctioned by God, or do you concur with the Church that it is not?

SK

 

[RCSeminarian]

To you all,
What I have come to learn through the Bishop here in my Diocese is that it is not the simple identity that makes one a Sinner but the Action!

With this being said… Whether you are homo or hetero sexual if you take part in sexual encounters outside of the sanctity of Marriage (as defined by the Catholic Church) than you are a sinner. I know many Homosexual friends that have take the vow of celebacy on their own so as to not fall out of communion with the God and the Church.
I know friends who are heterosexual who are greater sinners that those friends that have taken to celebacy because of their carlesness in the matter of sex.

Let us not judge a person by who they are but let us judge the action. In other words just because a person is Gay does not make them a person who is evil or diserves death or to be put into exile.

WE MUST BE CAREFUL TO NOT JUDGE THE ACTUAL PERSON RATHER THE ACTION THAT A PERSON ACTS ON.

Abbot Mark OSB
Thank you for your feed. It is perfect to what I am saying. You have choosen to take up a religious life rather than living and acting on your passions. As it has been said we are all called to live a Holy life. Therefore, it is our choice to either give in to our passions or choose to stuggle and battle and withhold from our passions and live a life in holiness.

 

[peary]

Even though there may not be any full blown scientific evidence that one can be born homosexual, there is no right to discard the idea.

And it’s plain obvious today that many people ARE born gay. There are many individuals who have stated that they were gay from as soon as they started being attracted to others. And other individuals clearly state they have always felt as if they were in the wrong body.

But yes, people can also gradually become gay through upbringing, environment and choice as thistle posted.

The contemporary psychiatric evidence shows that individuals are not born with same-sex attraction. What individuals have revealed upon further inquiry is that children can experience gender confusion at an early age. Depending on psychological conditions, a child may tend toward same-sex attraction as his or her sexual identity becomes more pronounced through upbringing, environment and choices made.

 

[cargau]

My counselor and my Priest have recommended that I stop from reading here-at least on this topic, because they both feel that my commitment to staying in the Catholic church and obeying Church teaching is in danger-not to mention my self-esteem.

Sorry, Fits but you are not trying to deal with this issue honestly. Why would you back away from the Catholic Church when, from what I have read, no one has condemned you, certainly not I.

 

[onetimeposter]

Let it first be known that I am completely against homosexuality. And that I don’t care what anyone says there is no such thing as gay marriage, maybe gay rings and gay sexual interaction but they are not presenting themselves under God so it is not a real matrimony.

My question is what is all the nonsense that I am hearing about people being born homosexual? I believe that this Bible verse would prove that it is completely not true.

“The Lord God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man. When he brought her to the man, the man said: This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called woman, for out of her man this one has been taken. That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become on body. --Genesis 2:22-24”

I got that out of a Catholic Teen Bible. And then I go hearing things about animals being homosexuals too and I really want to know what in the world all of this stuff (nonsense) is about.

Please and Thank You

You seem predisposed to a bias against a possibility that there may be a genetic or natural link involved with homosexuality.

It is very important to challenge your ideas, thoughts and faith. Do not fear that you may find an answer you do not like or an answer that creates conflicts for you.

It is not at all reasonable to ask a question, claim you are curious, but at the same time claim that you already know that it is nonsense.

The reality is, you have already admitted that you know very little about the subject, yet you have already concluded that it is all nonsense.

If you know that it is all nonsense, and you know that nothing will convince you otherwise…then why are you even asking?

There are some 1500 species that have been observed demonstrating homosexual behaviour and 500 of those have been well documented.

Google it yourself…National Geographic has a good article on it, and the article even mentions that the findings are causing problems for people who claim homosexuality is unnatural.

When I was bigoted against homosexuals, I used to believe that it was a choice. Looking back, I realize that I was being an arrogant know it all, that really knew nothing about the subject and I was just repeating what I had heard.

I now realize that for the vast majority of homosexuals, they are born that way. For a few, it is a choice. I did not choose to be a heterosexual, I was born this way.

Keep your mind open when asking questions.

 

[bcuster]

I take the unpopular view that environment rather than genetics is the major factor. Sexual abuse, premature sexual activity, pornography, being groomed by others, loneliness, a feeling of being different (common to all teen-agers).

There are rare cases of confused genetics, but these are rare.

 

[onetimeposter]

If a person is a Catholic, he or she should accept the Catholic teaching, just as he or she should accept the rules of Catholic Forum…QUOTE]

But what if your conscience is telling you that the Church is wrong or that the Church has lost Her way?

Shouldn’t a person follow their conscience rather than submit to blind obedience?

 

[onetimeposter]

I take the unpopular view that environment rather than genetics is the major factor. Sexual abuse, premature sexual activity, pornography, being groomed by others, loneliness, a feeling of being different (common to all teen-agers).

There are rare cases of confused genetics, but these are rare.

It’s fine that you take this view…but what do you base it on and I would like to know how you have come to the conclusion that there are rare cased of confused genetics…I believe a citation is in order.

allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

“…the APA currently states that sexual orientation is not a choice, rather that “…it emerges from most people in early adolescence **with no prior sexual experience”**1],”

 

[SilentKnight]

But what if your conscience is telling you that the Church is wrong or that the Church has lost Her way?

Shouldn’t a person follow their conscience rather than submit to blind obedience?

No.

If you’re Catholic, you understand that the Church teaches the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and you submit accordingly, irrespective of your own perceptions or “feelings”.

SK

 

[mflaschner]

Why is the sin of homosexuality treated so differently than other sins? Why are homosexuals treated as if they are sinners at first glance-without knowledge of their culpability?

Misinformation and fear.

I was talking to a friend of mine about homosexuality. She said “Do you know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah? God burned the cities to the ground!” As if this was the answer … we talked a little more and she finally managed “Look, I don’t know a lot about homosexuality because I’ve never dealt with any specific people who say they are gay.”

My question is: why is being “born gay” such a scary concept? We’re all called to different vocations - being single and chaste is one regardless of sexual orientation.

If I, an unmarried, heterosexual woman, were to have sex today I would be sinning. If an unmarried homosexual man or woman were to have sex today he/she would be sinning. Although there is a distinction between venial and mortal sins, I find it rather unhelpful for individuals to judge each other based on which sins are more damning than the next.

We are all “born sinners”, but through the grace of God, baptism removes the stain of original sin. If there is a genetic basis for homosexuality, and people really are “born gay”, why would the grace of God be any less effective at removing that sin?

In all sincerity, if I’m being naieve about how scary the implications of being “born gay” would be, please let me know. I’m always looking to learn more.

 

[cargau]

Is the only way to demonstrate compassion to a gay person to accept the lifestyle that goes along with that?

If I new someone that led a promiscuous heterosexual lifestyle, I wouldn’t react any differently.

You see its all about the sin. Any sin will keep us from God’s light. The goal of every human should be first and foremost to get to heaven. How much compassion is really being shown to someone when their sin is validated out of a sense empathy.

I don’t single gays out as being any better or worse than anyone else. In fact, I am quite sure that many gays have found far more favor with God than I ever will.

It’s all about the journey…and more importantly, the destination.

 

[greenpatrick125]

My brother always prays to God for the end of his homosexual days but nothing has happened. He is miserable most of the time. He didnt choose to be gay, it is a defect something, I say. I read in a book in which it said that reasearch shows that women who have used DES, or Diethylstilbestrol before the birth of the child, were more likely to have a homosexual or bisexual child. The mothers took the drug to avoid miscarriage. Just something i found in a book.

 

[johnnydigit]

My brother always prays to God for the end of his homosexual days but nothing has happened. He is miserable most of the time. He didnt choose to be gay, it is a defect something, I say. I read in a book in which it said that reasearch shows that women who have used DES, or Diethylstilbestrol before the birth of the child, were more likely to have a homosexual or bisexual child. The mothers took the drug to avoid miscarriage. Just something i found in a book.

is he active in Church? Church groups and communities? Bible Studies? daily Mass, Rosary? it is said that the greatest cure for vices and general angst is serving the poor…

 

[onetimeposter]

is he active in Church? Church groups and communities? Bible Studies? daily Mass, Rosary? it is said that the greatest cure for vices and general angst is serving the poor…

I don’t believe that homosexuality is a vice, one not accepting that they are homosexual could be the source of angst.

I somehow doubt that your suggestions would " cure " a person of their same sex attraction.

If it could, there wouldn’t be any homosexual Christians.