Homosexuality in geneology?

[anoynted1]

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I think it’s because there are people GLAAD, the media, etc. that want to accepted as an alternative and acceptable lifestyle. Thus we have gay pride week, gay day at amusement parks, and the like. If someone is gay and struggling with living a chaste life that is very different from those that flaunt their gayness.
We are all culpable for are sins. That is not an issue. Obedience is the issue.

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And I would add that many people today are not scripture oriented.
They have a concept of God then that comes from the recessess of their own mind as to what they think God ought to be. The depth of their thought has been formulated by their own experiences.The Holy Spirit hasn’t told them anything. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will bring all things to your memory----whatever HE has said. He also said that He never came to destroy the Law & the Prophets, but to fulfill. When people don’t read their bible, they have no idea what God has said or who He really is. They are forced to listen their own thoughts because the Holy Spirit has no Word to give them. HE can’t find it w/in them becuase they have not put Him in. Being that there is an element of the Creator in all that is created, & since one aspect of God is His Love (the fulness being His Holiness), love tells me its wrong to disenfranchise anyone for any reason. Now a person who is rooted in scripture & not in their own experience would not exclude scripture from any conclusion that they come to. The bible teaches that homosexuality is SIN. It is anti-Dvine Order. This truth hurts people who cannot accept that either they are wrong or someone they love is wrong. Persons who are caught up in the gay lifestyle are ususally some of the nicest people you will ever know. They do a lot of good deeds. However, nice people don’t go to heaven. Good people don’t go to heaven. No one could ever be nice enough or good enough to meet up to God’s standards. Only persons who are washed in the Blood of the Lamb are going to heaven. Those that have received Jesus as their Lord & Savior & on a daily basis, commit their lives to Him & trust Him to free them of everything that keeps them from Him. They question the authority of the Pope, priests, anyone that tells them that sin is sin, becuse that is not the god of their concept & reasoning.
People are questioning scripture because a famous person said “question everything”. They are questioning the teachings of the Church, which is the institutuion of God! What has happened to us? We have been influenced. The Word has been replace by opinion. Obedience has given way to self-will.
In the Old Testament book of Judges, God’s people were in & out of trouble. Chapters 18 & 19. verse 1 of both, start the same way: “In those days, Israel had no King”. In Chapter 21 verse 25, the last verse of the book, tells us what eventually happened because there was no authority in the land. It says: “In those days Israel had no king, & every man did what was right in his own eyes.”
We don’t study scripture, we won’t attend bible studies,we go to Mass out of rote, make every effort to disprove scripture, & then say the Church is outdated & useless.
I say, we haven’t tried the Church. I saw a lady on tv who apparantly, used to be Catholic. She had since joined a “mega-church”. They put the camera in her face & she said “I used to be Catholic, but I converted to Christianity”. How appalling! She had been Catholic her whole life & yet she didn’t know she was already a Christian!
It would be better to find out who He is, what He says before we determine that the bible is wrong, the Church is wrong, & all the people that believe the bible & adhere to the church & its positions are wrong.

 

[thistle]

As some posters seem to have a distorted view on the Church’s position on this here is the official teaching of the Church on homosexual activity:

CCC Chastity and homosexuality

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. **Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” **They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[comfort1st]

There are sound, medically, scientifically documented studies showing cases of identical twins where one lives gay and the other lives heterosexually. Identical twins means plain and simply, identical genetics.

Sorry, but I don’t agree. We call twins “identical” based entirely on their appearance. I’m sure that if you do a DNA test you’ll find them different in a number of ways.

 

[Kolbe300]

There are five rivers that run through your town. Four of them are fine, the fifth, the weatherman tells you, is about to flood. Which of the five do you pay most attention to and why?

The fifth, for obvious reasons. Could a river the weatherman didn’t warn you about also flood?

You have ten different physical ailments. One of them is deadly, the other nine are not (at least at their current stage). Which one do you focus all medical treatment on and why?

The deadly one, for obvious reasons. Could an ailment you don’t pay attention to also kill you?

As soon as Catholics that use birth control start organizing public Pill Pride parades and start advocating for the right to marry their pills and all that, trust me, the anti-birth control crowd will become much more vocal about the problem.

The difference here, and my point, is once again the young people. You don’t like the gay pride parade, you are very vocal on that (which is understandable). The problem is when so many who aren’t even in the parade get thrown into it. It’s something that many people are simply refusing to see. Anytime I ever heard a thing about homosexuality as a kid it was negative. All I ever heard was “repent or you’ll go to hell”. So that’s what I did. I tried to repent for something I’d never even done. “Hate the sin, not the sinner.” Imagine hearing that phrase as a kid. Where in that phrase is the option to not BE the sinner? YOU may understand the phrase, but that suffering kid out there doesn’t. I have never in my life heard of someone who doesn’t practice birth control feeling condemned by the anti-birth control crowd.

Peace.

 

[SilentKnight]

So they ignore the MASSIVE number of Catholics who use birth control and they concentrate their energies on a small homosexual minority.

I fear the motivation behind that is a deep rooted bigotry.

1. I guess it might help to clarify exactly who “they” are. No group of Catholics that I know of that actively oppose homosexual activity fail to also oppose artificial birth control. They may perhaps oppose homosexual activity and acitvism with greater vigor at the present time than the vigor with which they publicly oppose birth control. But when and if that’s the case, again, there is an already-defined very particular and good reason for that.

Those against homosexual activity call it evangelism/standing up for the truth/saving souls/preserving the common good. Those in favor of homosexual activity call it hate/bigotry/homophobia, etc., etc.

Like I said, should you ever see Pill Pride movements begin or anything of that more vocal and public sort, you can expect to see more vocal and public opposition to artificial birth control in turn. It’s a very simple issue of “supply and demand”.

1. I fear (with a sincere concern) that your affinity for homosexual activity has placed you outside the grace of God and thus blinded you to 4,000 years of consistent and unequivocal Judeo-Christian truth, causing you to view that which is upside down as rightside up and vice versa. This is the nature of evil: Love feels like hate to it. Truth is “full of lies”; wisdom is stupidity, and so forth.

Repent (as we all must do) and find sustenance and support in something like Courage (couragerc.net/) before it is too late, Onetime. My prayers are with you.

SK

 

[SilentKnight]

The fifth, for obvious reasons. Could a river the weatherman didn’t warn you about also flood?

At some later point in time, yes. For the purposes of this illustration, I’m assuming the weatherman in this instance is 101% “on top of his stuff”.

The deadly one, for obvious reasons. Could an ailment you don’t pay attention to also kill you?

Yes. And I’m not sure I follow you. Sorry…??

The difference here, and my point, is once again the young people. You don’t like the gay pride parade, you are very vocal on that (which is understandable). The problem is when so many who aren’t even in the parade get thrown into it. It’s something that many people are simply refusing to see. Anytime I ever heard a thing about homosexuality as a kid it was negative. All I ever heard was “repent or you’ll go to hell”. So that’s what I did. I tried to repent for something I’d never even done. “Hate the sin, not the sinner.” Imagine hearing that phrase as a kid. Where in that phrase is the option to not BE the sinner? YOU may understand the phrase, but that suffering kid out there doesn’t. I have never in my life heard of someone who doesn’t practice birth control feeling condemned by the anti-birth control crowd.

Ok. First of all, thank you for your patience and focus. I understand and can agree with what you’re saying. And, in fact, I would go so far as to say that, indeed, we as a Church do need to be a little more careful in how we express our opposition to homosexual behavior, for this reason and others.

This is a great challenge, though, because you’ve got people coming from all across the spectrum on this one. In the homosexual community, you’ve got everything from the gay men who dress up as nuns and perform sex-acts in public parades all the way down to the extremely well behaved, very Christian teen that just wants to do God’s will and is terribly perplexed or confused or saddened by their condition, and everything in between. No, the gay men who dress up as nuns do not represent the whole of the gay community, but neither are they a total anomaly by any means.

So…What’s a good Christian to do? Sit quietly and idly by while the gay male “nuns” parade through the streets and demand to be able to marry each other and to be able to teach children as young as kindergarten all about their disordered lifestyle, and “just pray” for them? Or is something more vocal in order? And if something more vocal, considering the vast array of homosexual personalities - what? What to do? What to say that is going to be consistent with the truth, effective at stopping the onslaught of homosexual activism from taking over all public facets of the country, and inoffensive to all parties concerned at the same time?

…???

Any ideas, friend?

What comes to my own mind is that 1) each and every Christian has the duty to speak the truth in love at all times; and 2) It is first and foremost the duty of every parent to instill in their child an appreciation for the truth. In this case, this means both explaianing clearly that homosexual activity is immoral and that they as the parent’s child and as a human person are greatly loved, no matter what disorder they may have in life, be it physical or mental, or whatever. Children knowing well they are loved (at home) goes a long way in helping them to cope with the insults, injuries, and crosses that all of us in life must bear.

Peace to you as well.

SK

 

[SilentKnight]

P.S.

I do realize that homosexual orientation is a much larger cross than many others are to bear, involving as it does the very “nature of one’s person”.

But what is also true is that the larger the cross, the larger, more splendid the crown in the end. I hope all who are reading this will take hope in this and find renewed strength to carry on. Jesus loves you and, as God, suffered and died so that you could do this; so that you can overcome. And you will if you firmly surrender to him your life.

My prayers are with you. I ask you to pray for me as well…

SK

 

[Kevin42]

Very nice post SilentKnight. Peace be with you.

 

[johnnydigit]

indeed! “the closer you get to Christ, the more you will suffer.”
such a shame they have the opportunity to be transfigured like a Seraphim but don’t know it or even care about it.

isn’t it funny how great Saints would beg for suffering? methinks there is something to it…

 

[Kolbe300]

Ok. First of all, thank you for your patience and focus. I understand and can agree with what you’re saying. And, in fact, I would go so far as to say that, indeed, we as a Church do need to be a little more careful in how we express our opposition to homosexual behavior, for this reason and others.

SilentKnight, thank you as well. I join these discussions because deep down I know they can get somewhere positive. Your paragraph above proves that’s true. I absolutely agree with you.

So…What’s a good Christian to do?

That question right there is the heart of the matter. You are so right that the “spectrum”, if you will, of homosexuality is very broad. The approach has to be taken just as you mentioned, with love. We have two choices to approach the subject. We can tell someone why we think they are going to hell or we can show someone how to find heaven. There is an infinite difference in the two approaches. Just as our children need to know that they are loved in spite of nothing, the gay male “nuns” need to know the same. Like the approach of Mother Teresa, we must be able to set our anger or revulsion aside long enough to embrace the humanity that is always there. We must find Jesus in the least of those among us, especially in those whom Jesus is so well hidden. Is it a challenge? Absolutely. Instead of pointing at the parade with disgust, which is easy, we can try embracing someone inside that parade. It may be hard, but they are so worth it.

And we should make an effort to focus on those on the spectrum who seem to be forgotten. The kids need to know that they are not the headlines in the newspaper. They are not the parade. They are not the abomination, which seems to be the only thing they hear. They need to be recognized. They need positive role models who they can identify with. They need to know there are people who have walked in their shoes and have found hope in the truth. They need to know that we don’t have to look past their sexuality in order to love them. They need to know that they need not look past their own sexuality to see how beautiful they truly are.

I do realize that homosexual orientation is a much larger cross than many others are to bear, involving as it does the very “nature of one’s person”.

But what is also true is that the larger the cross, the larger, more splendid the crown in the end. I hope all who are reading this will take hope in this and find renewed strength to carry on. Jesus loves you and, as God, suffered and died so that you could do this; so that you can overcome. And you will if you firmly surrender to him your life.

SilentKnight, you just answered the question, “What do we do?” What you said there is exactly what those in the parade need to hear. That approach would go so much further than “repent or go to hell.”

My prayers are with you. I ask you to pray for me as well…

Thank you, and consider it done. Peace.

 

[SilentKnight]

Just as our children need to know that they are loved in spite of nothing, the gay male “nuns” need to know the same. Like the approach of Mother Teresa, we must be able to set our anger or revulsion aside long enough to embrace the humanity that is always there. We must find Jesus in the least of those among us, especially in those whom Jesus is so well hidden. Is it a challenge? Absolutely. Instead of pointing at the parade with disgust, which is easy, we can try embracing someone inside that parade. It may be hard, but they are so worth it.

They are worth it.

But it is hard on two different fronts. (Which is not an excuse not to do what we need to do, it’s simply to continue the dialogue.) One, this requires perpetual conversion of heart - to which we are all called continually anyway. I’m just saying… And two, what one sees is not always what one gets, which, in fact, is a double edged sword.

On the one hand, the gay male dressed as a nun may be the one closest to conversion. Maybe he has never experienced love in his life and all it will take to “convert” him is one person taking ten minutes out of their day to show him love on one occassion.

Then again, maybe he has known plenty of love and, for whatever reason, has decided to consciously wander down the path of perdition, fully aware of what it is he is doing. This second scenario does not warrant a passive “lovey dovey” approach but a firm and sober “slap upside the head”.

Now, by “slap upside the head”, I don’t mean he needs to be screamed at that God hates him and he is an evil SOB, destined to be damned. I mean, he needs to be informed in a manner that is charitable but also unequivocal and unwavering that he cannot continue to behave as he does now. “Coddling” works for some and only emboldens others and reinforces their wrong behavior.

The supreme challenge…Which one is he? When he writes an article for the local newspaper condemning Christianity for its “hate” and railing against all things good and upright…Do we attempt to contact him quietly behind the scenes and say, “Hey, buddy. I really care about you and want to share God’s love with you”? Or do we, in turn, send a verbal chastisement of our own for the paper to publish, dismantling his arguments and calling him to account?

My intent with this question is not so much to obtain an answer as it is to simply illustrate how complicated this scenario can get. And it only gets complicated further when we’re dealing with a group of folks like this, all of whom are in different places in their lives psychologically and spiritually. And it’s complicated even more when such men, for example, are advocating for something like gay “marriage”. (To what extent, as I asked earlier, do we sit quietly and just pray and to what extent to we need to speak out? And in what way?)

In a third and final (and perhaps most troublesome) manner, things are ever more complicated by certain Christians who do not live up to their name, rejecting God’s Revelation (and their own conscience sometimes), telling people that homosexual activity is perfectly normal.

And we should make an effort to focus on those on the spectrum who seem to be forgotten. The kids need to know that they are not the headlines in the newspaper. They are not the parade. They are not the abomination, which seems to be the only thing they hear. They need to be recognized. They need positive role models who they can identify with. They need to know there are people who have walked in their shoes and have found hope in the truth. They need to know that we don’t have to look past their sexuality in order to love them. They need to know that they need not look past their own sexuality to see how beautiful they truly are.

Absolutely. It sounds like Courage is going a long way in accomplish this very task

(couragerc.net/)

May God continue to bless them in abundance.

SK

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Gays wrong?
no.

Gay sex wrong?
yes.

Gay marriage?
not valid.

Does this sum it all up?

I have nothing aginst gay people but I am totally against what they do.

 

[onetimeposter]

Gays wrong?
no.

Gay sex wrong?
yes.

Gay marriage?
not valid.

Does this sum it all up?

I have nothing aginst gay people but I am totally against what they do.

Gay marriage if valid in Canada and some Christians Church’s will marry homosexuals.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Gay marriage if valid in Canada and some Christians Church’s will marry homosexuals.

But because it is not a Catholic marriage, it is not valid.

 

[Kevin42]

Gay marriage if valid in Canada and some Christians Church’s will marry homosexuals.

It is not valid in The Christian Church.

 

[onetimeposter]

It is not valid in The Christian Church.

The largest Protestant Denomination in Canada would disagree with you.

 

[Kevin42]

The largest Protestant Denomination in Canada would disagree with you.

Not to be rude, but a Protestant denomination is not part of the Christian Church. The Catholic Church is THE Christian Church making up the body of Christ. This Protestant group may be a Christ centered community, but they are not part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church that was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ. But this seems to be going off topic. Pax et bonum.

 

[onetimeposter]

1. I fear (with a sincere concern) that your affinity for homosexual activity has placed you outside the grace of God and thus blinded you to 4,000 years of consistent and unequivocal Judeo-Christian truth, causing you to view that which is upside down as rightside up and vice versa. This is the nature of evil: Love feels like hate to it. Truth is “full of lies”; wisdom is stupidity, and so forth.

Passive aggressive at its best. What a polite way to inform me that you believe I’m outside the grace of God and therefor going to hell.

 

[onetimeposter]

Not to be rude, but a Protestant denomination is not part of the Christian Church. The Catholic Church is THE Christian Church making up the body of Christ. This Protestant group may be a Christ centered community, but they are not part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church that was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ. But this seems to be going off topic. Pax et bonum.

As sure as you are in your faith, remember that to the protestants that you speak of…they are just as sure in their faith.

Don’t be so quick to write off a protestant.

 

[tnystrom]

Sorry, but I don’t agree. We call twins “identical” based entirely on their appearance. I’m sure that if you do a DNA test you’ll find them different in a number of ways.

Actually we call identical twins identical because they come from the same fertilized egg or zygote. Thus, the DNA is identical.