Homosexuality is learned.

[DexUK]

The old therapy, based on Pavlovian conditioning, which was used to change homosexuals to heterosexuals, was to show them gay porn while injecting them with a nausea-eliciting drug. What happened to many was that they lost their same-sex attraction but did not become heterosexual. Instead, they became asexual. The treatment was eventually discontinued.

And, in many cases, I believe that the asexual effect ‘wore off’ after time…

 

[CaptBell800]

The old aversion therapy, based on Pavlovian conditioning, which was used to change homosexuals to heterosexuals, was to show them gay porn while injecting them with a nausea-eliciting drug. What happened to many was that they lost their same-sex attraction but did not become heterosexual. Instead, they became asexual. The treatment was eventually discontinued.

That’s kind of frightening therapy.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I used to believe people were born either straight or gay. Maybe some are. But after learning that in my 14 year old’s grade at his former school there are 6 girls who claim to be lesbians, and 3 girls claim to be bisexual–there is NO WAY that it isn’t learned and “the cool thing” happening right now. There are also 3 boys claim that they are gay, 5 that claim they are bisexual. This is at a small highschool (less than 400 students 9-12 grade), something is influencing this trend.

Saying they are, even experimenting, doesn’t mean they actually are attracted to the same sex.

A (male) friend’s ex-girlfriend claimed to be bi, saying she preferred women “emotionally” and men “physically”. Really? Sounds pretty straight to me.

 

[LisaA]

You may want to re-read my OP. From very personal experiences, straight porn can lead to homosexuality. In straight porn straight viewers are exposed to at least one person the same gender as the viewer. The sexual actions actions of the same-sex porn actor are coupled with one’s sexual arousal! Think about this rationally, and I think things will sink in.

Coming late to the discussion so apologize for not reading every post. You make an EXCELLENT point here and one that comports with my experience with some homosexuals who were very candid with me about their porn habits. As you noted straight porn has very graphic images of sexually aroused males and the focus of the porn is very much on the male rather than the female for obvious reasons (outdoor plumbing so to speak). There is also the fantasy of having an experience with a straight man…converting him as it were over to the dark side.

I do agree with your OP regarding some homosexuality being learned or patterned into individuals due to particular experiences. Like fetishes or rituals or sadly attrraction to youngsters, once the brain is patterned to become aroused by specific stimuli, it doesn’t change that easily. Pattern a young man to be stimulated by images of males and you can see where that road could lead.

I am curious, as psychologist, do you agree with the theory that female sexuality is far more changable than male sexuality? My belief and that of a Rabbi who has weighed in on the subject is that females can move back and forth more easily than males, although I have certainly seen males who have engaged in both hetero and homosexuality.

Lisa

 

[Robert_Sock]

Coming late to the discussion so apologize for not reading every post. You make an EXCELLENT point here and one that comports with my experience with some homosexuals who were very candid with me about their porn habits. As you noted straight porn has very graphic images of sexually aroused males and the focus of the porn is very much on the male rather than the female for obvious reasons (outdoor plumbing so to speak). There is also the fantasy of having an experience with a straight man…converting him as it were over to the dark side.

I do agree with your OP regarding some homosexuality being learned or patterned into individuals due to particular experiences. Like fetishes or rituals or sadly attrraction to youngsters, once the brain is patterned to become aroused by specific stimuli, it doesn’t change that easily. Pattern a young man to be stimulated by images of males and you can see where that road could lead.

I am curious, as psychologist, do you agree with the theory that female sexuality is far more changable than male sexuality? My belief and that of a Rabbi who has weighed in on the subject is that females can move back and forth more easily than males, although I have certainly seen males who have engaged in both hetero and homosexuality.

Lisa

I’m not too sure, but I think female sexuality would be easier to change.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I pray that if you are a clinical psychologist that you are not practicing for the sake of gullible patients that might be on the verge of suicide. Enough said…

What makes you say this about me? To think that Satan does not torment individuals in ‘good’ families is to be gullible.

 

[CatholicSheila]

I can’t believe so many people are taking this seriously.

If homosexuality was caused by porn, what’s the likelihood that it no one has picked it up til now? There are plenty of good people in the church who are interested in helping those who suffer SSA. If it was this simple, we would have heard about it years ago.

As someone who actuals experiences SSA, I find it rather ridiculious.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I’ve never been addicted to porn or masturbation. And have absolutely no interest in the opposite gender.

I have to admit, I’m not too thrilled at the idea that I was seduced by satan as a child. Frankly, if I read that 15 years ago when I was still struggling with what to do with my attraction, this would have really messed with my head. I don’t know what causes it, but I must agree with DexUK (I think) that this sort of speculation doesn’t really help anyone.

Yes. This.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Interestingly the Church doesn’t talk about this idea whereas the idea that it could be biological in origin has been discussed for over a half century.

The Church, it seems, caters too much to the social norms as presented from within psychology and psychiatry. The CCC is not infallible as some would like to believe. Mother Church would be wise to stick with theology, and stay away from ‘science.’ Mixing science and theology is a bad combination.

 

[CopticChristian]

I consider it unlikely that the use of salacious material would provoke homosexual instincts in an otherwise heterosexual person.

A heterosexual person would be unlikely to be aroused by the same gender in order for that provocation to happen, surely?

(I’m trying to be as delicate as I can with my terminology here)

Dex,

Men in prison sometimes become Homosexual when prior to incarceration they are not. Studies have been done on these populations.

 

[CaptBell800]

Dex,

Men in prison sometimes become Homosexual when prior to incarceration they are not. Studies have been done on these populations.

This is one of the things that kind of leads me to think there is at least some kind of environmental factor in it. Even though prison populations aren’t sexually normal, it’s weird that otherwise heterosexual men and women can suddenly take to homosexual behavior.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’d say most children will display a nascent undeveloped orientation that can be recognised. Many homosexual people report being aware of their sexual desires at a very early age: earlier than the critical reasoning functions that would develop allowing them to make a conscious choice in the matter. They simply develop that way.

The absolute cause is a scientific mystery. People with theological axes to grind will - as frequently evidenced on this very forum - will attempt to make absolute judgements, but the problem is, such black and white outlooks rarely correspond with reality.

For those that claim otherwise, I suggest that these people that are held up as evidence of mutability are actually fundamentally bisexual and have the luxury (as it were) of being able to choose to land on the heterosexual side of the fence and still be able to live a happy life.

I agree with the Church that the sexual function is ordered towards heterosexual procreation: that’s self-evident and doesn’t need the Church to define it. But the Church has not ruled on what causes homosexuality, and where it has ruled, in the Catechism, it requires us to treat anyone with a homosexual inclination sensitively, charitably and justly and without undue discrimination.

Dex,

I won’t say that homosexuality is decided hormonally, genetically, in-utero or during development. I simply don’t know. What I am certain of is that, for the majority of people, their sexual orientation is immutable.

The Catholic Medical Association agrees with you. Do you have any scientific support for this notion of Essentialism other than the American Psychiatric Association says so?

 

[CopticChristian]

Porn can certainly encourage a person to become promiscuous. As previously stated, I see no logical reason to suggest it would cause a person to change what they already found arousing. .

Dex,

An addiction to what a person already was aroused by might well develop by the use of porn and thus I’d certainly agree that it is, to a greater or lesser extent, responsible for ‘hyper-sexualisation’

Is this opinion based on

Medical Training and knowledge?
Personal Experience?
or
Wikipedia?

 

[CopticChristian]

More that appearances conspire to deceive - i.e. a person who is capable of sexual attraction to both genders is ‘trained’ / ‘conditioned’ into acting only in a heterosexual way either through force of will, religious conviction or through the assistance of cognitive behavioural therapeutic techniques.

Those who market ‘reparative therapy’ may do some good with those people - after all, if one is capable of heterosexual behaviour, then why not choose to do so? It is a more wholesome and easier life after all, regardless of the religious teachings about sexuality, simply because of the joys a family can bring. But I make the proposition that the therapy offered isn’t particularly ‘reparative’… more that it’s enabling that which is already possible in that person. For many people reparative therapies fail and therefore it must be said that for those people it isn’t possible for them to change their orientation. These people need then to find help in finding joy in chastity and other ways of living a fulfilled life.

Dex,

Is this opinion based on something other than something you read or just because you think so?

 

[CopticChristian]

You may have heard it said, but many homosexuals will report having excellent relationships with their fathers - and, indeed, the same relationships as their siblings who didn’t turn out homosexual. So that theory, while it may have some truth in it isn’t and can’t be valid in all cases.

Dex,

So is it the case that you have read all the literature including the work of Nicolosi or this is just your opinion based on personal experience or Wikipedia?

 

[CopticChristian]

So are you suggesting then that people who do homosexual things are, in fact, hypersexual and taking their fun wherever they can get it?

.

Dex,

That doesn’t tally with the homosexual population that reports no sexual interest whatsoever in members of the opposite gender, and would go out of their way to avoid being physically interfered with in the way in which you suggest

Which Homosexual Population? The entirety of Homosexuals? Homosexuals you know? Homosexuals that post on Wikipedia?..what reports are you referring to…list them…

 

[CopticChristian]

I would appreciate some references to back up that statement, because it certainly doesn’t equate with any of what I’ve been told by anyone who’s SSA. In fact, in my many years on this planet, to my knowledge, I’ve only met one SSA person who had indulged with the opposite gender at any time in their life. The rest all knew they didn’t want to and didn’t try.

Dex,

How many SSA have you encountered. You have posted you know lots of Transgendered, lots of Swyers Syndrome, lots of Homosexuals…How many have you encountered and how is it that you have encountered them?

 

[CopticChristian]

QUOTE=DexUK;10526876]Then, if your proposal is correct, the rational extension of that is to show heterosexual porn to homosexuals and see if that turns them at least bisexual.

So far as I know, that’s never worked.

[Edit]

And… given the vast amount of heterosexual pornography that is produced and the numbers of people partaking of it to the extent that they consider themselves addicted, surely that should result in them all becoming homosexual (or bisexual) as a result? I can’t say I’ve ever heard of that happening before now… and if it was such an obvious causal factor, it would have been common knowledge and used in a lot of arguments before.

QUOTE]

Dex,

You amaze me…

As ever, there may be some truth in it in some cases, but human sexuality is far too complex to be able to pin this down as a significant factor. Your subjective experience may be true for you (or, indeed, you may have genuinely misunderstood the factors at play and blamed porn for something which it wasn’t actually responsible for - and this is probably not possible for anyone to know) but one subjective experience doesn’t make for an objective fact.

You discount subjective experience for fact and you maintain an empiricist point of view based on Homosexuals, SSA, Transgendered you know…and when facts are provided you doubt them…help me understand how you maintain objectivity…?

 

[meltzerboy]

That’s kind of frightening therapy.

It was advocated at the time by Dr. Evelyn Hooker, a renowned sexual therapist and researcher. (A frightening name for a sex therapist!) She subsequently renounced this form of treatment.

 

[meltzerboy]

This is one of the things that kind of leads me to think there is at least some kind of environmental factor in it. Even though prison populations aren’t sexually normal, it’s weird that otherwise heterosexual men and women can suddenly take to homosexual behavior.

People who are intoxicated can also suddenly take to homosexual behavior. One of the questions involved in discussing homosexuality is how it is defined: only in terms of behavior or primarily in terms of desire? We must also consider the situational determinants that influence choices when examining an inmate prison population: that is, living without any sex or engaging in sex which one would not ordinarily participate in.