Homosexuality- Nature and nurture but not a choice (?)

[goofyjim]

BTW, I am also a homosexual male who experiences only the attraction. I don’t believe any of the theories that NARTh has developed. I was born this way and accept it. God has given me the grace not to act upon it. That’s all that is necessary.

 

[firstmode]

The Apostle Paul says that Homosexuality is a choice and is Unnatural:

Romans 1

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

 

[firstmode]

Check out this short paper, maybe it will clear some issues up for you:

ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4181_homosexuality.pdf

 

[goofyjim]

The Apostle Paul says that Homosexuality is a choice and is Unnatural:

Romans 1

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

You mean I chose to find men attractive? I absolutely did not. The choice is whether I act on the temptations.

 

[WarriorInChrist]

If it weren’t a choice, then why do we have the story about God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah? Were these people who were born with a homosexual gene and ACTED on it or did they freely choose it? Also, if homosexuality were genetic, wouldn’t it have died out ages ago due to evolution of “only the strong and those who pass on their DNA survive”? Homosexuals cannot pass on their DNA as they cannot procreate with each other yet it still exists today. Something isn’t adding up.

 

[Newbie2]

(Very long post by Josh here)
Josh Bennier

Josh, you have some interesting thoughts, but long posts are very difficult to read unless you break them up into paragraphs. Especially for those of us over 40.

The Apostle Paul says that Homosexuality is a choice and is Unnatural:

Yes, he says that such behavior is unnatural, and he condemns those who do choose such behavior, but nowhere does he say that SSA is sinful. Keep in mind also that Paul had no understanding of human psycological matters, and as such was not able to more precisely define “homosexuality” as we can today.

Check Church teachings. The orientation in itself is not considered sinful, similar to the the inclinations toward substance abuse and alcoholism.

We’re all tempted by something…and that temptation in itself is not sinful; giving into it is.

If it weren’t a choice, then why do we have the story about God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah? Were these people who were born with a homosexual gene and ACTED on it or did they freely choose it? Also, if homosexuality were genetic, wouldn’t it have died out ages ago due to evolution of “only the strong and those who pass on their DNA survive”? Homosexuals cannot pass on their DNA as they cannot procreate with each other yet it still exists today. Something isn’t adding up.

The other option is that it is neither genetic nor a conscious choice; perhaps it is a developmental anomaly.

But like I wrote earlier, it really doesn’t matter what the cause is. For whatever reason, it is a cross for those with SSA to bear, and undoubtedly a difficult one at that.

I see three catagories of people afflicted with SSA:

1. Those who make a conscious choice to “try it out” and get involved in the lifestyle, perhaps as a “counter-culture” or “rebellious” action. These folks, as I see it, may or may not have a true SSA.
2. Those who have a true SSA, but don’t have the religious or moral upbringing to realize that the behavior is disordered and sinful.
3. Those who have a true SSA, but with the grace of the Almighty are able to fight the good fight and remain chaste. They accept their orientation, but resist the temptation to give into the sinful behavior that constantly tempts them.

 

[goofyjim]

If it weren’t a choice, then why do we have the story about God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah? Were these people who were born with a homosexual gene and ACTED on it or did they freely choose it? Also, if homosexuality were genetic, wouldn’t it have died out ages ago due to evolution of “only the strong and those who pass on their DNA survive”? Homosexuals cannot pass on their DNA as they cannot procreate with each other yet it still exists today. Something isn’t adding up.

It can be a recessive gene. All it takes is for someone who is basically homosexually attracted to enter a heterosexual marriage and pass along the gene to a future generation.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Homosexuals cannot pass on their DNA as they cannot procreate with each other yet it still exists today.

They can and they do. They donate sperm, just like heterosexual men do. They do so both for anonymous sperm banks and for biological arrangements with females (both straight and lesbian) who act as surrogate procreators and thus provide children for them.

 

[firstmode]

Josh, you have some interesting thoughts, but long posts are very difficult to read unless you break them up into paragraphs. Especially for those of us over 40.

Yes, he says that such behavior is unnatural, and he condemns those who do choose such behavior, but nowhere does he say that SSA is sinful. Keep in mind also that Paul had no understanding of human psycological matters, and as such was not able to more precisely define “homosexuality” as we can today.

Check Church teachings. The orientation in itself is not considered sinful, similar to the the inclinations toward substance abuse and alcoholism.

We’re all tempted by something…and that temptation in itself is not sinful; giving into it is.

The other option is that it is neither genetic nor a conscious choice; perhaps it is a developmental anomaly.

But like I wrote earlier, it really doesn’t matter what the cause is. For whatever reason, it is a cross for those with SSA to bear, and undoubtedly a difficult one at that.

I see three catagories of people afflicted with SSA:

1. Those who make a conscious choice to “try it out” and get involved in the lifestyle, perhaps as a “counter-culture” or “rebellious” action. These folks, as I see it, may or may not have a true SSA.
2. Those who have a true SSA, but don’t have the religious or moral upbringing to realize that the behavior is disordered and sinful.
3. Those who have a true SSA, but with the grace of the Almighty are able to fight the good fight and remain chaste. They accept their orientation, but resist the temptation to give into the sinful behavior that constantly tempts them.

The apostle Paul does not need Psychology training, He had the Holy Spirit, had been brought up into the 3rd heaven and seen the things which cannot be spoken in man’s presence from God. You are best advised to listen to his writings.

 

[firstmode]

The apostle Paul does not need Psychology training, He had the Holy Spirit, had been brought up into the 3rd heaven and seen the things which cannot be spoken in man’s presence from God. You are best advised to listen to his writings.

BTW, i agree with your statement that the feelings themselves are not sinful, it is acting on them physically or in your heart that is the sexual sin.

 

[Newbie2]

The apostle Paul does not need Psychology training, He had the Holy Spirit, had been brought up into the 3rd heaven and seen the things which cannot be spoken in man’s presence from God. You are best advised to listen to his writings.

3rd heaven? I must have missed that part in any of the 4 conversion stories of Paul.

So people who fight against their inclination toward homosexual attraction and are chaste are sinful in this regard?

Strange interpretation, methinks. How is this different than a married man who has an inclination towards thinking impure thoughts about every skirt that walks by? (And I’m not talking about kilts )