Homosexuality--Why the Arguments and Theories Don't Matter

[michelleds]

I recently read a book that said something in the way of celibacy being a special calling and how could it be demanded of those who profess no inclination to it. This was in specific reference to homosexuality. Before I start discussing my thoughts on this statement, a little background about myself is in order. I am a recent convert to Catholicism . I’m 43, female, an attorney (a criminal prosecutor), and until 9-12 months ago, I strongly and vociferously identified as a lesbian. I have been out and out there in all ways since I was 18 years old. I was raised a sort of amalgam of baptist, methodist and pentacostal. I was raised to believe that gay people went to hell. When i was barely 18, I was kicked out of my parents’ home because my sin was the cause of my father’s blindness and failing health (he had had diabetes since he was 2 years old).

As a child, I had mystical experiences, loved Jesus, and believed that I would be a missionary and marry a preacher. Somewhere during adolescence and puberty, my world shifted on its axis. Shortly before my 18th birthday, I abandoned God, moral teachings, pretty much everything.

I sought God in all of the wrong places and people for 20 odd years. When I finally came to the Church, it felt like coming home. I am crazy in love with Jesus and beyond grateful that God brought me here. I have theorized, argued, and analyzed my way to few conclusions:

1. God calls EVERYONE to celibacy. For some that will be a lifelong celibacy; for others, it will be until they find their husband or wife and get married. For some married folks, they might have to re-enter a time of celibacy due to illness or other issues. Someone is obviously called to lifelong celibacy if they are called to the religious life, but also if they do not ever get married, for whatever reason. “Inclination” has very little to do with the calling, any more than “inclination” has anything to do with whether you should hit your neighbor over the head.
2. Having same-sex attraction is a cross. Jesus was pretty clear about taking up your cross and following Him. Didn’t say anything at all about how you feel about it, whether it’s fair, or if you’d rather of had cancer or alcoholism as your cross.
3. I finally understand what Jesus meant when He speaks of better to enter Heaven without a hand than burn in Hell with both hands. My sacrifice, my cutting off, is acting on same-sex attraction. And an eternity in Heaven after a celibate life on Earth is by far better than a life of sexual adventures followed by an eternity in Hell.
4. in the end, you (universal “you”) have to ask this question: What if the Church is wrong? If the Church is wrong, and it’s perfectly okay to be gay, what’s the end result? a life on earth without sex but an eternity in Heaven. But if those who say that the Church is wrong on this issue are, in fact, themselves wrong? what’s the result? eternity in Hell. That’s a pretty simple equation, isn’t it? [and yes, I did edit and post this on the masturbation thread.]

I’m not trying to be glib, but I have seen, firsthand, where the slippery slope takes the individual and society. I spent 20+ years surrounded by all of the gay, lesbian, transsexual, transgendered, third sexed, bisexual, leather, fetishist, etc communities and I will not be bullied into believing that society must accept everything that comes down the pike for the sake of some claim to emotional support and/or well-being. Period.

I will stand by my statement and belief that we are all called to be celibate, outside of the bounds of marriage, just as we are all called to be Holy.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Great Post! I admire your convictions. After reading your story, I stumbled upon this quote: “A ship in harbor is safe, but that’s not why ships are built” I am curious, would you consider the non-physical intimacy that exists between a same sex couple to be actual love, which can come only from the father, or rather just mere infatuation lacking the authenticity of love? If love can be manifested in a same sex relationship, is it better to have lived and loved than to never have loved at all? Would God rather a gay person love romantically or abstain from that level of intimacy(nonphysical)? Thanks God Bless!

 

[puzzleannie]

It took great courage to share your story and I am sure you will never know how many people you helped to reason their way through similar challenges. The bottom line is yes, some people are called to celibacy, and will never marry, some married couples will be called to prolonged abstinence, and some people are given crosses that seem far heavier than others. What they have in common is that God always, without exception provides that their cross is the means of their sanctification and ultimately a source of astounding grace and blessing.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I2. Having same-sex attraction is a cross. Jesus was pretty clear about taking up your cross and following Him. Didn’t say anything at all about how you feel about it, whether it’s fair, or if you’d rather of had cancer or alcoholism as your cross…

It’s all a magnificent and bravely self-evaluative post, which needs no embellishment, but only possibly an emphasis on the portion I pasted, because we would all rather have a different cross. Otherwise, it would not be a cross but a minor inconvenience or occasional annoyance. Those intersecting beams intersect us right through our hearts. There are many people on this forum who suffer from mental illness, which runs deep in my own family of birth and extended family. Mostly, those illnesses were not treatable or ultimately conquerable, so such persons lived with those, suffering, all their lives, with reduced capacities and limitations which restricted their full joy on earth. Daily crosses indeed. Inescapable crosses.

Our society as a whole (I am not necessarily singling out homosexuals more than any other group or indivdual) seeks a pain-free life, as a “right.” It defines the “pursuit of happiness” as a personally happy outcome, in all I do and all I seek. And it defines happiness often rather superficially (materially, politically, sexually, etc.). Rather, we have a birthright to pursue happiness despite whatever obstacles health, circumstances, societal restrictions, physical troubles, etc. present us with. We do not have a right to demand that all obstacles to immediate satisfaction be removed.

On the subject of the Cross, John Milton wrote an eloquent poem precisely on the wish to remove his cross in exchange for another:

On His Blindness

When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one talent which is death to hide
Lodg’d with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide,
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies: “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts: who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is kingly; thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er land and ocean without rest:
They also serve who only stand and wait.”

 

[michelleds]

Great Post! I admire your convictions. After reading your story, I stumbled upon this quote: “A ship in harbor is safe, but that’s not why ships are built” I am curious, would you consider the non-physical intimacy that exists between a same sex couple to be actual love, which can come only from the father, or rather just mere infatuation lacking the authenticity of love? If love can be manifested in a same sex relationship, is it better to have lived and loved than to never have loved at all? Would God rather a gay person love romantically or abstain from that level of intimacy(nonphysical)? Thanks God Bless!

Birdpreacher, thank you for your comments. I think that your question is using some fuzzy terms like “actual love”. But I would say that I would never be so presumptuous or arrogant as to say something is authentic or actual love. That’s not the point, though, of my post. I believe that there are many types and kinds of love and loving relationships–parent/child, friends, siblings, BFFs, etc. Nobody is called to NOT love someone.

as for the ships sailing and “better to have lived and loved than to never have loved at all”—well, I’ll just continue to stand on that whole eternity in Hell thing.

 

[Crumpy]

It took great courage to share your story and I am sure you will never know how many people you helped to reason their way through similar challenges. The bottom line is yes, some people are called to celibacy, and will never marry, some married couples will be called to prolonged abstinence, and some people are given crosses that seem far heavier than others. What they have in common is that God always, without exception provides that their cross is the means of their sanctification and ultimately a source of astounding grace and blessing.

And, as the case may be, to be happy about it (the cross).

 

[GeovannyGar20]

Awesome Post Im new to catholic.com and i recently asked a question for my friend amy who is a lesbian and is exactly like you in the sense that shes deeply in-love with god and she was wondering that if god would forgive her for her past sexual sin with the same sex she was lost and confused…but she says shes repented for every sin even cries about it and shes ready to dedicate her life to god even if it meant for her to abstain from sex with the same sex which is deff a cross for her because unfortunately she cant control who shes attracted to…but you answered her question…shes thankful !

 

[francisca]

I recently read a book that said something in the way of celibacy being a special calling and how could it be demanded of those who profess no inclination to it. This was in specific reference to homosexuality. Before I start discussing my thoughts on this statement, a little background about myself is in order. I am a recent convert to Catholicism . I’m 43, female, an attorney (a criminal prosecutor), and until 9-12 months ago, I strongly and vociferously identified as a lesbian. I have been out and out there in all ways since I was 18 years old. I was raised a sort of amalgam of baptist, methodist and pentacostal. I was raised to believe that gay people went to hell. When i was barely 18, I was kicked out of my parents’ home because my sin was the cause of my father’s blindness and failing health (he had had diabetes since he was 2 years old).

As a child, I had mystical experiences, loved Jesus, and believed that I would be a missionary and marry a preacher. Somewhere during adolescence and puberty, my world shifted on its axis. Shortly before my 18th birthday, I abandoned God, moral teachings, pretty much everything.

I sought God in all of the wrong places and people for 20 odd years. When I finally came to the Church,

Hi Michelleds,

You are amazingly courageous woman. As a criminal prosecutor, you know well that “inclination” does not mean “a call” to do the inclination, for many crimes takes place because of inclinations.

I have questions for you. You said that you had mystical experiences as a child. I wonder if you could share those. Also, I wonder what happened shortly before your 18th birthday so that you decided to abandoned God.

God bless you.

 

[valentino]

Micheledes:1)more accurately: “calls one to purity” I would say a person who had an inclination to celibacy would be a malajusted individual.Perhaps he had bad experience(s) as a child.4)more accurate:what if there is no God?"If Jesus is God the Church is right.

 

[jawgee]

Excellent post. I admire your courage and your conviction.

What was it that called you to the Catholic church? I imagine some of your friends are horrified at the “betrayal”???

 

[EvelynEVF]

Valentino,

How could inclination to celibacy be a sign of maladjustment? We know that most of the time God calls His priests from a pool of men who are already called to celibacy. Same for friars, monks, sisters, and nuns.

 

[Nelka]

I’m not trying to be glib

Good post but what is glib?

 

[michelleds]

thanks everyone!

“glib” is to be superficial or lighthearted about something serious.

What happened at around 18 to make me abandon God et al? Tricky and lengthy story. The Reader’s Digest version is that the abandonment was probably a culmination of a number of factors: the Evil One getting a toe-hold through some reading material I was exposed to when I was around 12; the Pentacostal fervor surrounding my parents and their earnest craving for healing; some societal factors; garden-variety teenage rebellion; one of my mentors “abandoned” me. I put that in quotes because while it seemed like abandonment to my teenaged self, now at 43 I can see that it was hardly that!

What brought me to the Catholic Church? that, my friends, is an interesting story. My priest and I laughingly just call the twists and turns and circumstances that brought me to the Church a mystery of God and leave it at that.

 

[JimG]

I will stand by my statement and belief that we are all called to be celibate, outside of the bounds of marriage, just as we are all called to be Holy.

Truly a remarkable post. I won’t re-quote all of it, just the last sentence. It brought a lot of clarity to the matter.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Wonderful post, thanks for sharing your story. I am touched by what you wrote. I am now engaging in ministry to and with people who have same sex attraction from various church backgrounds. I have found that very few Evangelicals embrace your line of thinking, but there are Catholics who do because of what the church teaches about Homosexuality.

I agree with you about all being called to celebacy. I do think one glarring difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals is that for homosexuals, they know their call to celebacy is going to be life long, whereas with heterosexuals, this is not the case. They have the option of getting married to avoid fornication, The Apostle Paul had a positive view of singleness and celebacy, but told the Corinthians that they should marry rather than burn with lust. Homosexuals do not have the option.

I was once tempted to embrace pro-gay theology, but I cannot. Scripture and Tradition are too clear about the matter, and I cannot approach the Word of God questioning if God taught what he really taught about Homosexuality, sort of life the serpent in the garden…“Did God really say…”

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…we are all called to be Holy.

In lieu of actual flowers, here is something for you, OP.

Thanks for sharing your story with CAF. We love it.
,

 

[PbloPicasso]

What a wonderful post Michelle. I do believe you hit the nail on the head.

 

[meltzerboy]

I recently read a book that said something in the way of celibacy being a special calling and how could it be demanded of those who profess no inclination to it. This was in specific reference to homosexuality. Before I start discussing my thoughts on this statement, a little background about myself is in order. I am a recent convert to Catholicism . I’m 43, female, an attorney (a criminal prosecutor), and until 9-12 months ago, I strongly and vociferously identified as a lesbian. I have been out and out there in all ways since I was 18 years old. I was raised a sort of amalgam of baptist, methodist and pentacostal. I was raised to believe that gay people went to hell. When i was barely 18, I was kicked out of my parents’ home because my sin was the cause of my father’s blindness and failing health (he had had diabetes since he was 2 years old).

As a child, I had mystical experiences, loved Jesus, and believed that I would be a missionary and marry a preacher. Somewhere during adolescence and puberty, my world shifted on its axis. Shortly before my 18th birthday, I abandoned God, moral teachings, pretty much everything.

I sought God in all of the wrong places and people for 20 odd years. When I finally came to the Church, it felt like coming home. I am crazy in love with Jesus and beyond grateful that God brought me here. I have theorized, argued, and analyzed my way to few conclusions:

1. God calls EVERYONE to celibacy. For some that will be a lifelong celibacy; for others, it will be until they find their husband or wife and get married. For some married folks, they might have to re-enter a time of celibacy due to illness or other issues. Someone is obviously called to lifelong celibacy if they are called to the religious life, but also if they do not ever get married, for whatever reason. “Inclination” has very little to do with the calling, any more than “inclination” has anything to do with whether you should hit your neighbor over the head.
2. Having same-sex attraction is a cross. Jesus was pretty clear about taking up your cross and following Him. Didn’t say anything at all about how you feel about it, whether it’s fair, or if you’d rather of had cancer or alcoholism as your cross.
3. I finally understand what Jesus meant when He speaks of better to enter Heaven without a hand than burn in Hell with both hands. My sacrifice, my cutting off, is acting on same-sex attraction. And an eternity in Heaven after a celibate life on Earth is by far better than a life of sexual adventures followed by an eternity in Hell.
4. in the end, you (universal “you”) have to ask this question: What if the Church is wrong? If the Church is wrong, and it’s perfectly okay to be gay, what’s the end result? a life on earth without sex but an eternity in Heaven. But if those who say that the Church is wrong on this issue are, in fact, themselves wrong? what’s the result? eternity in Hell. That’s a pretty simple equation, isn’t it? [and yes, I did edit and post this on the masturbation thread.]

I’m not trying to be glib, but I have seen, firsthand, where the slippery slope takes the individual and society. I spent 20+ years surrounded by all of the gay, lesbian, transsexual, transgendered, third sexed, bisexual, leather, fetishist, etc communities and I will not be bullied into believing that society must accept everything that comes down the pike for the sake of some claim to emotional support and/or well-being. Period.

I will stand by my statement and belief that we are all called to be celibate, outside of the bounds of marriage, just as we are all called to be Holy.

I would also like to congratulate you on sharing this courageous and inspiring story. You certainly have overcome tremendous odds. Your fourth conclusion sounds a little like the Pascalian wager. I love the part in which you talk about everyone’s having a cross (or star, as the case may be) to bear. That’s so true. It may surprise you to learn that I happen not to agree with your belief that homosexual behavior is sinful; but if you sincerely believe it is, based on your own experiences and faith, I applaud your conviction.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I would also like to congratulate you on sharing this courageous and inspiring story. You certainly have overcome tremendous odds. Your fourth conclusion sounds a little like the Pascalian wager. I love the part in which you talk about everyone’s having a cross (or star, as the case may be) to bear. That’s so true. It may surprise you to learn that I happen not to agree with your belief that homosexual behavior is sinful; but if you sincerely believe it is, based on your own experiences and faith, I applaud your conviction.

metlzerboy,

Sometimes I don’t know what you are trying to do in this forum. On two threads where a homosexual and a lesbian thought to open their individual threads to sweetly announce to the forum they are living the lifestyle that Catholics would find, er, scandalous, inviting one and all “ask me anything,” of course with a ready justification for a sinful life, you made it a point to almost extend a congratulatory note. In fact, you did tell the homosexual poster that he was living a courageous life. The thread on the “out” lesbian was removed, but you also posted something along the same lines there.

And in this thread, which, I believe is a demonstration of real courage by the OP in finally making it right with Jesus and not to worry anymore about the state of her soul and eternal life, you felt you had to say, oh, by the way, I don’t believe homosexual behavior is sinful.

I realize you’re Jewish and you may not believe in life after death, but why do you feel it necessary to express such a thing in a Catholic forum? What is your motivation? The OP identifies as a Catholic, in case you did not notice.
,

 

[meltzerboy]

metlzerboy,

Sometimes I don’t know what you are trying to do in this forum. On two threads where a homosexual and a lesbian thought to open their individual threads to sweetly announce to the forum they are living the lifestyle that Catholics would find, er, scandalous, inviting one and all “ask me anything,” of course with a ready justification for a sinful life, you made it a point to almost extend a congratulatory note. In fact, you did tell the homosexual poster that he was living a courageous life. The thread on the “out” lesbian was removed, but you also posted something along the same lines there.

And in this thread, which, I believe is a demonstration of real courage by the OP in finally making it right with Jesus and not to worry anymore about the state of her soul and eternal life, you felt you had to say, oh, by the way, I don’t believe homosexual behavior is sinful.

I realize you’re Jewish and you may not believe in life after death, but why do you feel it necessary to express such a thing in a Catholic forum? What is your motivation? The OP identifies as a Catholic, in case you did not notice.
,

My motivation, Grace, is exactly what I said in my post. There is no hidden motivation on my part to convert the OP to my way of thinking, let alone my religion, nor to engage her or anyone else in a discussion on homosexuality. I pointed out my belief only to show that despite my own feeling on the issue, I still think she is a courageous person and admire her conviction as a person and as a Catholic believer. BTW, Judaism does believe in life after death (see the thread on that very issue). Also Judaism (at least Orthodox Judaism) does not approve of homosexual behavior. My opinion is my own. As to the other thread, if that is the one you’re referring to, the OP was an active homosexual to begin with and comfortable with their lifestyle. Was there another “Ask me Anything” thread on which I posted my opinion on the issue? I don’t recall. However, if I have unintentionally upset the OP, I sincerely apologize. I also sincerely apologize to you since evidently I have upset you.