Homosexuality

[Des]

I actually laughed when I read sodomy ‘damages the orifice in question’. That is so wrong. Second of all if God is the creator of all things why did he concentrate the nerve endings in the rectum so highly in order that men (and not some, but all men) could receive pleasureful sensations there? Why would he have allowed that to happen if supposedly it is contrary to his master design?

If God created these nerve endings specifically for male homosexual intercourse then we’d find a natural lubricant excreted from that region as well which just isn’t the case so you can write that reason off your list.

 

[Cinette]

I actually laughed when I read sodomy ‘damages the orifice in question’. That is so wrong. Second of all if God is the creator of all things why did he concentrate the nerve endings in the rectum so highly in order that men (and not some, but all men) could receive pleasureful sensations there? Why would he have allowed that to happen if supposedly it is contrary to his master design?

“pleasureful sensations” - gosh I did not know that. I would imagine that pleasureful sensations may occur when one is constipated and expells the hard waste - a relief more than pleasure.

I fail to understand!

Cinette

 

[Cinette]

I have since read all the postings and I told my husband about them.

He goes for a full medical check-up every year and one of the things the doctor does is insert his finger in the rectum which, he tells me, is painful and does not excite him sexually at all. My guess is that few people must experience any excitement as a result of anal penetration.

Cinette

 

[ladybri77]

A question that I have is, what if a ‘gay gene’ is discovered and verified? How would that change how we read those scriptures or our opinion of the right/wrong of the gay lifestyle? After all, it would mean it is some sort of biological defect that occurs in some people - no different than mental retardation, Parkinson’s disease, or being born without arms or feet. It’s an interesting thought and one that just might turn out to be fact one day. Remembering also that leprosy was thought to be due exclusively because of sin in biblical times; of which we now know differently; as well as the same argument being used against black people not so many years ago.

Something I think we all seem to miss in using the scriptural argument is that, along with many of the quotes about homosexuality being an abomination to God, homosexuality most often not standing alone in that text but, rather it is included in a list of several other sins that God considers an abomination. Among which are: gossiping, untruthful business practices, the love of money, oppressive treatment of others, lying, vanity, and those who sow discord among their brethren.

I can see and understand both sides, but I’m having a hard time taking any firm stand either way. I’m trying to keep an open mind that, even as Christian Catholics, we might just be wrong about a few things; therefore, I keep praying for God to physically clarify this issue.

Even if they find there is a “gay gene”, people still do not have to act out on the behavior if they want to stay chaste and obey God and the teachings of the Catholic church.

Just like people who are attracted to the opposite sex do not have to commit fornication or adultery just because they are attracted to someone.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think that you can use logic to prove almost anything, and that this issue can’t be decided by logic. Having been in both homosexual and heterosexual relationships I can tell you that one is based on mutual love in which two people complement one another, and the other is a partnership which can never be mutual. In some sort of way I can’t explain, but which I have felt undeniably, the sex in a homosexual relationship is about having power over oneself by having power over another human being who is nothing more than a symbol of oneself. There is no true connection there. It’s no different than masturbation using another person.

Having engaged in both, I can tell you that it feels the same as sado-masochism. It is a way for people to connect, true, but it is a way that keeps them down and links the act of sexual connection to many states of minds and attitudes that are harmful to the person. Sex is more than physical, so any logical argument to determine whether homosexual acts are harmful or not cannot be limited to the physical.

My long-term homosexual relationship was a disordered thing that I did at a time when my whole life was so disordered that I could not discern that there was anything higher; but even to the limited degree that it was recognized by society as being equal to heterosexuality, this kept me from even conceiving that sex could ever be or mean anything different.

My logic on this is that anything that keeps one from recognizing the higher parts of oneself by keeping them focused on the lower is wrong because it keeps us from our potential, that potential being for sacrificial love rather than for selfish love.

However, I feel strongly that the public disgust and hatred of homosexuality ostracizes the homosexual to the point of making it difficult or nearly impossible for them to find Truth. There can be no progress made on this issue until it ceases to be so highly emotional for both sides.

I now believe that homosexuality is a symptom that a person has not been loved sacrificially enough to perceive sacrificial love as a reality; therefore they will not look for it either in chastity or in heterosexual relationships. There was no force so active in keeping this reality from me at this time in my life as was the outward, unloving condemnation of religious people of my then-lifestyle. All I could see were a bunch of people terrified of something that had absolutely no effect on them personally, using it to distract themselves from all the problems in their own lives that they could have used this energy to examine. I believed for a very long time that religion was a force that kept people from being good people.

By the way, I’ve been happily married for quite awhile.

Thank you for sharing your personal story with us. Very moving!

 

[DCNBILL]

Pleasure is the logical end. The op does not understand that when he says who does it hurt that it hurts society. You have a society that has learned pleasue as it aim. When pleasure is the aim we miss what is good. We use people as objects for our own gradification.
A quote from PJPII The sexual instinct wants above all to take over, to make use of another person, whereas love wants to give, to create good, to bring happiness

Here is some more. Love cannot take the form of mere use, even if enjoyment is mutual and simultaneous. Instead, it finds its proper expression in the union of persons. For love is the unification of persons. What is more, it is only when it directs itself to the person that love is love

The only escape from this otherwise inevitable egoism is by recognizing beyond any purely subjective good, I.e. Beyond pleasure. An objective good, which can also unite persons and thereby acquire that charateristcs of a common good, in so subject themselves to it. Thanks to it they are united by a true, objective bond of love which enables them to liberate themselves from subjectivism and from egoism which it inevitably conceals. Love is the unification of persons

So here is the problem people are more concerned about pleasure than loving the person. This has destroyed our society.

Amen to that Odell

 

[ladybri77]

What is wrong with sodomy? Well for one thing it is an exit point where the body expels the waste (feces) and anything inserted is bound to get dirty and smell I would imagine. Is it not painful? After a lot of use I would imagine that the apperture would lose its elasticity and it would be difficult to prevent the waste from freely leaving the body! This would require the use of daipers. How uncomfortable and embarrassing! What about painful?

Can the anus be considered a sensitive sexual instrument like the normal sexual organs of a male and female?

I believe that homosexuality may be emotional more than anything else really. In fact I have thought about this and separate homosexuality from “gay” whereby the first is an emotional disorder and “gay” is a decadent sub-culture. When observing the behaviour of “gay” people we see that it is ugly and dirty - it is not love, it is self-gratification to the extreme where anything goes and these people indulge in anonomous sexual activity - there is seldom a long term commitment. It is a sad state.

If one is from a normal and happy family any sexual confusion can be dealt with but we note that today 37% of children born are from single parents. Each child needs to say “Mama and Papa” “Mom and Dad”. Take out the love and caring ingredients from the family and the result may be incomplete and problematic.

Cinette

Yeah, Cinette! That’s the crux of the issue right there!

Here is a great link explaining an update on the gay gene theory. This particular article doesn’t go into the particular environmental causes, but there are many predisposing environmental factors that play into the homoemotional condition. Believe me, I know.

onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=528376

 

[Cinette]

I think that you can use logic to prove almost anything, and that this issue can’t be decided by logic. Having been in both homosexual and heterosexual relationships I can tell you that one is based on mutual love in which two people complement one another, and the other is a partnership which can never be mutual. In some sort of way I can’t explain, but which I have felt undeniably, the sex in a homosexual relationship is about having power over oneself by having power over another human being who is nothing more than a symbol of oneself. …

However, I feel strongly that the public disgust and hatred of homosexuality ostracizes the homosexual to the point of making it difficult or nearly impossible for them to find Truth. There can be no progress made on this issue until it ceases to be so highly emotional for both sides.

I now believe that homosexuality is a symptom that a person has not been loved sacrificially enough to perceive sacrificial love as a reality; therefore they will not look for it either in chastity or in heterosexual relationships. There was no force so active in keeping this reality from me at this time in my life as was the outward, unloving condemnation of religious people of my then-lifestyle. All I could see were a bunch of people terrified of something that had absolutely no effect on them personally, using it to distract themselves from all the problems in their own lives that they could have used this energy to examine. I believed for a very long time that religion was a force that kept people from being good people.

By the way, I’ve been happily married for quite awhile.

Indeed your story is very moving. I have a friend who came to tell me one day that she was homosexual - she wanted to tell me because she wanted to test our friendship. I loved her for being so frank with me and we continue to be very good friends.

We should not judge and hate homosexuals - they are the way they are for a reason and sometimes can overcome their difficulty.

What I dislike intensely are people who boldly flaunt their decadent gay lifestyles. That is why I always make a distinction between homosexual and gay.

Thank you for sharing. You know what love really is now.

God bless you
Cinette

 

[phoooiee]

Indeed your story is very moving. I have a friend who came to tell me one day that she was homosexual - she wanted to tell me because she wanted to test our friendship. I loved her for being so frank with me and we continue to be very good friends.

We should not judge and hate homosexuals - they are the way they are for a reason and sometimes can overcome their difficulty.

What I dislike intensely are people who boldly flaunt their decadent gay lifestyles. That is why I always make a distinction between homosexual and gay.

Thank you for sharing. You know what love really is now.

God bless you
Cinette

I enjoyed reading this post. It warmed my heart to hear that you were so kind to your friend.

I really feel that people flaunt their lifestyles because they feel attacked- when someone feels attacked, they hold on to whatever part of them has been attacked. It’s a natural reaction against anger and hatred. The second someone perceives an emotional reaction on the part of the person opposing their actions, they’ll reject the message outright. Sin begets sin begets sin…it’s so important to meet the sinner with love and sad compassion rather than offense…sin is the natural state of mankind and none of us is any better than the rest.

 

[031064]

I do not think that sexuality should ever be such a major part of one’s life that it takes over – that I agree upon. I do not think it should be the case for hetero or homosexual. Another issue with this is that homosexuals often feel that they could never find themselves with a woman- they need a male figured to fill that role because there are certain qualities about men that women cannot provide.

It is absolutely medically false to claim that the anus has a certain ‘elasticity’ – homosexuals are equally as able to control their bowels as are heterosexuals – in fact even the Church has claimed it acceptable for heterosexual couples to partake in anal sex as long as the resulting orgasm occurs in the vagina (where they believe it should occur based on this or that logic).

 

[ladybri77]

I do not think that sexuality should ever be such a major part of one’s life that it takes over – that I agree upon. I do not think it should be the case for hetero or homosexual. Another issue with this is that homosexuals often feel that they could never find themselves with a woman- they need a male figured to fill that role because there are certain qualities about men that women cannot provide.

It is absolutely medically false to claim that the anus has a certain ‘elasticity’ – homosexuals are equally as able to control their bowels as are heterosexuals – in fact even the Church has claimed it acceptable for heterosexual couples to partake in anal sex as long as the resulting orgasm occurs in the vagina (where they believe it should occur based on this or that logic).

I’m in the medical field, and I have heard of this being true. The anus can lose elasticity from repeatedly inserting items in it that do not belong, and over time can cause loss of control. And please don’t use the argument of a colonoscope. These medical procedures are done very infrequently and do not cause undue harm the majority of the time.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I now believe that homosexuality is a symptom that a person has not been loved sacrificially enough to perceive sacrificial love as a reality;

You have hit the nail squarely on the head! My mom was overprotective and dominating and my dad was emotionally unavailable and critical of me. My parents didn’t model the kind of love I needed for me.

Instead, I fear pursuing a friendship with a woman around my own age (I have no problem being friends with women who are much older than me) because I fear that she’s in it for some motivation other than just being friends and possibly more. My mom’s criticism of my father didn’t help me develop into a man who can trust women. That, conjoined with the rampant militant feminism and the appearance in popular media of villainesses, really did a number of what I think about women. I fear them because they’ll either want something from me or try to manipulate me toward her own selfish ends.

I fear pursuing friendships with men because of my perception of my dad’s emotional rejection of me as a child and his hypercritical treatment of me destroyed my ability to fully trust another man with who I am as a person (the part forgotten by many when dealing with SSA people).

 

[LCMS_No_More]

We should not judge and hate homosexuals - they are the way they are for a reason and sometimes can overcome their difficulty.

I’m curious as to what that reason would be.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

What is wrong with sodomy? Well for one thing it is an exit point where the body expels the waste (feces) and anything inserted is bound to get dirty and smell I would imagine. Is it not painful? After a lot of use I would imagine that the apperture would lose its elasticity and it would be difficult to prevent the waste from freely leaving the body! This would require the use of daipers. How uncomfortable and embarrassing! What about painful?

Can the anus be considered a sensitive sexual instrument like the normal sexual organs of a male and female?

I believe that homosexuality may be emotional more than anything else really. In fact I have thought about this and separate homosexuality from “gay” whereby the first is an emotional disorder and “gay” is a decadent sub-culture. When observing the behaviour of “gay” people we see that it is ugly and dirty - it is not love, it is self-gratification to the extreme where anything goes and these people indulge in anonomous sexual activity - there is seldom a long term commitment. It is a sad state.

If one is from a normal and happy family any sexual confusion can be dealt with but we note that today 37% of children born are from single parents. Each child needs to say “Mama and Papa” “Mom and Dad”. Take out the love and caring ingredients from the family and the result may be incomplete and problematic.

Cinette

Actually, speaking from experience, if one is clean “down there,” there is no “dirty and smelly” issues. Also, depending on the skill of the person doing the penetrating, the prostrate is sensitive to stimulation and can provide pleasure to the person being penetrated. Finally, unless one gets into some of the more extreme practices involving anal penetration (and I will NOT go there because it has always grossed me out, even when I was practicing homosexual acts), there is little danger of the sphincter muscle becoming so stretched that it cannot return to its normal state rather quickly afterward.

That doesn’t make it right.

Yes, same sex attractons is an emotional disorder. It is a symptom of other issues, which are as unique as the individual suffering the disorder. The issues conspire to create an attraction toward members of the same sex. There are many reasons for it. I just heard someone describe it as “exotic becoming erotic.” The emotional need of a boy to be held close by a man and have that man look him in the eye and say that the boy means something to him. I never had that as a child, so I have that unmet need. Add my overprotective mother to the mix and the result is an insecure, self-hating person who is so ashamed of his body that being seen without even a shirt by his own mom would cause him to feel embarrassed to the point of avoiding the possibility with any woman.

 

[Cinette]

Actually, speaking from experience, if one is clean “down there,” there is no “dirty and smelly” issues. Also, depending on the skill of the person doing the penetrating, the prostrate is sensitive to stimulation and can provide pleasure to the person being penetrated. Finally, unless one gets into some of the more extreme practices involving anal penetration (and I will NOT go there because it has always grossed me out, even when I was practicing homosexual acts), there is little danger of the sphincter muscle becoming so stretched that it cannot return to its normal state rather quickly afterward.

That doesn’t make it right.

Yes, same sex attractons is an emotional disorder. It is a symptom of other issues, which are as unique as the individual suffering the disorder. The issues conspire to create an attraction toward members of the same sex. There are many reasons for it. I just heard someone describe it as “exotic becoming erotic.” The emotional need of a boy to be held close by a man and have that man look him in the eye and say that the boy means something to him. I never had that as a child, so I have that unmet need. Add my overprotective mother to the mix and the result is an insecure, self-hating person who is so ashamed of his body that being seen without even a shirt by his own mom would cause him to feel embarrassed to the point of avoiding the possibility with any woman.

I have read your last few postings and it reminded me of a thought I had several years ago. I believe that the pill gave women such “power” and many women used this “power” to dominate and challenge men.

My 41 year old son is and was very athletic and good looking and at the time he was in high school (I was away from the Catholic Church at the time and he was not baptised) all the girls would shower him with flowers on Valentines and would constantly pursue him. One day he said to us (dialogue was always vibrant and open in our home between the three generations) “I don’t think it is right to go with young girls - I want a woman”. My husband had had a girlfriend before he met me and she was a really nice girl and would have done anything to please him and he felt that because he could not comit to a loving relationship with her because his feelings were more that of friendship, he did not accept her invitation. So you see Father and son had the same attitude and that was good.

When he left school our son sailed to the Caribbean and then to Europe and there he met an American girl who flirted with him and he wanted to have intercourse with her and it did not happen - or rather it could not happen and so he thought there was something wrong with him. I found this out through his sister who told me on the telehone that she wanted to take him to a psychologist. When she told me the cause I told my husband and he wrote our son a letter explaining that these things do happen sometimes but that does not mean he is in any way abnormal. Some weeks later while in conversation on the telehone he said “Remember the problem I had? I don’t have it anymore!” Later I visited him in Paris and one night we were on the steps of Montmartre he said “…the American girl was very challenging and overpowering”

So you see this new socalled “freedom” women found in the pill contributed largely to this overbearing, domineering attitude. That is just my thinking. I am no psychologist.

I am sure many young men get confused and feel it better to be with the gender they trust - they feel “safe”. We live in a permissive and confused world I think.

God bless you
Cinette xoxoxo

 

[Cinette]

It very early in the morning and I have a busy day ahead so forgive me if I have said this before. My husband has a full medical examination every year without fail and one of the things the doctor does is examine the prostate by inserting his finger in the anus. My husband said it is huminiliating and very painful…(the doctor also has large hands and thick fingers!!) LOL!

 

[Bishop93]

Did not quite understand that, “does not benefit the survival of either the individual organism”

The species will survive because there are enough heterosexuals; by the way, I do not hear the same argument against asexuality

And in any event, two lesbians can, with the use of technology, have children; so this would mean that there in no logical argument against lesbianism in the 21st century

Exactly.

The “gays can’t reproduce so it’s wrong” argument is bunk.

A friend of mine was born with micro-penis and is also unable to reproduce “naturally” because he can’t have sex…So is his life all in sin?

Talkin about sodomy…Why would a Catholic even want to go there right now with all the stuff about Priest surfacing?

 

[Cinette]

Exactly.

The “gays can’t reproduce so it’s wrong” argument is bunk.

A friend of mine was born with micro-penis and is also unable to reproduce “naturally” because he can’t have sex…So is his life all in sin?

Talkin about sodomy…Why would a Catholic even want to go there right now with all the stuff about Priest surfacing?

Sin is a choice.

We all have a cross to bear.

Cinette

 

[phoooiee]

Exactly.

The “gays can’t reproduce so it’s wrong” argument is bunk.

A friend of mine was born with micro-penis and is also unable to reproduce “naturally” because he can’t have sex…So is his life all in sin?

Talkin about sodomy…Why would a Catholic even want to go there right now with all the stuff about Priest surfacing?

That’s not the entire argument. The more important part of the argument is that sexual acts between homosexuals are not an expression of love, but rather of power and of objectifying the partner to gratify a desire, rather than loving the partner mutually and sacrificially. From experience, I can attest to this being true. The fact that reproduction is not possible is given as additional evidence of what I have stated.

I would like to also point out that the abuse rate among priests is actually lower than that among married men. This doesn’t negate how terrible the abuse is.

 

[phoooiee]

I have to say one more thing. I came to this realization about homosexual sex not being mutual BEFORE becoming a Catholic, at a time in my life when I was very against religion. Having done it, it was that obvious to me.