Homosexuality

[jeanne71350]

Hi everyone,

First, I want to say that I do not have anything personal against homosexuals. I’m posting this to get Catholic advice. I’ve been getting a lot of heat lately because of my stance on homosexuality. People keep saying all sorts of things, but I think it’s just not supposed to be, because 2 people of the same gender can’t reproduce. All of nature takes a male and a female to reproduce. I’m not in favor of gay marriage or relationships. People keep telling me I’m being ugly and that I’m wrong for that because they can’t help it. But honestly, I don’t think it’s right. People have called me a hyprocrite because I’m so Catholic but I hate homosexuals…but I really don’t hate them. I still think they are people and deserve respect, but I don’t agree with their lifestyle. It’s kind of like someone having premarital sex…I don’t agree with them, but I won’t hate them because they sin. I mean, I’m no better. I sin too. I don’t see anything wrong with what I think, but these people are bringing me down. I’m just wondering, am I not loving others as I should with this? Any advice is appreciated

Thanks
Jeanne

 

[buffalo]

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

and my favorite:

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

 

[MarianD]

Remain firm in the faith. Homosexual sex is a sin, and the Truth is unchanging regardless of what people want.

But always remember that homosexuals are still God’s children and they still deserve love. They are no less human than you and I, and they should never be treated as such. Homosexuals are called to a life of chastity, and pray that the believers who are homosexual will lead such a life.

In regards to my stance on gay marriage in terms of the state, that’s a different issue. I’m speaking now from a completely religious viewpoint.

 

[edwest2]

The Bible tells us that there were those who were without the Law but did what the Law required because it was written on their hearts.

Catholics cannot have a purely religious view on this issue. That’s right. Our purely religious view disqualifies us when telling others that killing human embryos is wrong. Why? Because science tells us a human embryo is a human being. It contains genetic material from the mother and father. That is a fact that does not require religion.

Homosexuality has been examined. There is good data. Remember - opinions do not matter. There is Truth – singular. Not a whole bunch of different truths.

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Without the Truth – singular – people will be led astray.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Julian0404]

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

and my favorite:

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

WOW ! I have got to get some books and learn from Bishop Sheen. Thank Youl

 

[buffalo]

WOW ! I have got to get some books and learn from Bishop Sheen. Thank Youl

Bishop Sheen Website

 

[Newbie2]

Hi everyone,

First, I want to say that I do not have anything personal against homosexuals. I’m posting this to get Catholic advice. I’ve been getting a lot of heat lately because of my stance on homosexuality. People keep saying all sorts of things, but I think it’s just not supposed to be, because 2 people of the same gender can’t reproduce. All of nature takes a male and a female to reproduce. I’m not in favor of gay marriage or relationships. People keep telling me I’m being ugly and that I’m wrong for that because they can’t help it. But honestly, I don’t think it’s right. People have called me a hyprocrite because I’m so Catholic but I hate homosexuals…but I really don’t hate them. I still think they are people and deserve respect, but I don’t agree with their lifestyle. It’s kind of like someone having premarital sex…I don’t agree with them, but I won’t hate them because they sin. I mean, I’m no better. I sin too. I don’t see anything wrong with what I think, but these people are bringing me down. I’m just wondering, am I not loving others as I should with this? Any advice is appreciated

Thanks
Jeanne

Jesus never said following him would be easy.

My advice is to continue to focus on the behavior as disordered/sinful. Those who see nothing wrong with homosexuality will usually knee-jerk and slam labels on us; “homophobe”, “bigot”, etc, etc. and insist that we are hateful.

When we get lumped in with the Westboro Baptist Church folks, you can see how this could happen.

However, we must continue to state and restate our position over and over as Catholics; hate the sin, love the sinner. Homosexual behavior is no more or less sinful than adultry or fornication; in that sense we have to be clear that we are against all sin.

Don’t let the “hypocrite” label bother you…you’re not being hypocritical at all, whoever said that does not know what the word means. If you supported homosexuality and claimed to be a Catholic Christian, that would be hypocritical. Opposing the sin of homosexual behavior is perfectly consistant with our faith, and that is not being a hypocrite.

Don’t let them bring you down…help bring ***them ***up.

 

[St_Francis]

A post by Brother JR, number 137 on this page, might be helpful to you.

What is happening in our society today is the logical fallacy of equivocation. For example, we Catholics use the word love to mean wanting the best for another. Society takes the importance we place upon love, changes the meaning of the word, and criticizes us for not living according to *their *defintion of love.

As Catholics, we believe that the goal of man is to know, love, and serve God in this world so as to be happy with Him in the next. Sinning goes against that, so we are to avoid sin and help our brothers and sisters in this world to avoid sin. One way to do that is to point out what constitutes sinful behavior.

But that does not fall under the definition of love in society’s view. In society’s view, love means allowing anyone to do anything which they think at that moment will maximize their happiness. So telling someone that sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful means you are imposing your view of what makes you happy on someone who thinks that sexual activity outside of marriage is what will make him happy. This is unfair because you get to be happy, but he ends up miserable.

What they do not understand is that you may be going through unhappiness now to achieve a higher eternal happiness, and that you are trying to help others do the same. And since society thinks that God does not really exist, they do not appreciate what you are doing.

So, carry on, and offer up your sufferings.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Jesus never said following him would be easy.

My advice is to continue to focus on the behavior as disordered/sinful. Those who see nothing wrong with homosexuality will usually knee-jerk and slam labels on us; “homophobe”, “bigot”, etc, etc. and insist that we are hateful.

When we get lumped in with the Westboro Baptist Church folks, you can see how this could happen.

However, we must continue to state and restate our position over and over as Catholics; hate the sin, love the sinner. Homosexual behavior is no more or less sinful than adultry or fornication; in that sense we have to be clear that we are against all sin.

Don’t let the “hypocrite” label bother you…you’re not being hypocritical at all, whoever said that does not know what the word means. **If you supported homosexuality and claimed to be a Catholic Christian, that would be hypocritical. ** Opposing the sin of homosexual behavior is perfectly consistant with our faith, and that is not being a hypocrite.

Don’t let them bring you down…help bring ***them ***up.

Or, if you claimed to be a Catholic, yet support unlimited access to contraceptives and abortion, and work hard to keep those instruments of genocide available to the poor - that would not only be hypocritical, but a mortal sin.

 

[Gertabelle]

Your struggles with this are an awesome offering to Christ for the conversion of all sinners (ourselves included of course ).

Keep the faith! As a woman who was once in that lifestyle for many, many years, I can tell you that the very, very, **very few **Christians who loved me in action, but didn’t support my lifestyle made the biggest difference in my life. Mostly, their kindness and support (e.g., helping me in my classroom, offering words of encouragement when my dad died, etc.) made me feel uncomfortable, uneasy – they weren’t judging me, so there was nothing to fight against! The love of God in action is a powerful tool for bringing souls home to His Heart.

Loving the sinner without supporting the sin is an impossible task without the love of God in our hearts. Pray often, and receive the sacraments often. Don’t compromise. He will see you through.

And know that I’ll be praying for you, too.

Gertie

 

[Seeker2010]

I’m not in favor of gay marriage or relationships.

Disclaimer: Not Catholic, not homosexual, but believe gay marriage should be legal.

Jeanne, let me ask you a question. It seems you’re going out of your way to enter into conversations with others about your perceived problems with homosexuality. Obviously I don’t (and can’t) know the context of those conversations based on your post, but it seems a topic you bring up from time to time.

Do you also bring up fornication?

Do you bring up missing mass as a mortal sin?

Do you discuss birth control as inherently evil?

While I cannot say for sure, it seems you’ve singled out homosexuality, out of the dozens of commonly practiced actions labeled by your church as immoral, for special attention. You are opposed to ‘gay relationships’? What does that mean, they should be illegal even if not married?

Not just you, it seems Christians in general, and especially Catholics are absolutely OBSESSED with homosexuality, while ignoring many other things considered abominations.

Or do you actively support stoning disobedient children to death?

 

[Trishie]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

2331 "God is love and in himself he lives a mystery of personal loving communion. Creating the human race in his own image . . … God inscribed in the humanity of man and woman the vocation, and thus the capacity and responsibility, of love and communion."115 “God created man in his own image . . . male and female he created them”;116 He blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply”;117 "When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created."118
115 FC 11.
116 Gen 1:27.
117 Gen 1:28.
118 Gen 5:1-2.

Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

141 Cf. Gen 191-29; Rom 124-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.

 

[jeanne71350]

Disclaimer: Not Catholic, not homosexual, but believe gay marriage should be legal.

Jeanne, let me ask you a question. It seems you’re going out of your way to enter into conversations with others about your perceived problems with homosexuality. Obviously I don’t (and can’t) know the context of those conversations based on your post, but it seems a topic you bring up from time to time.

Do you also bring up fornication?

Do you bring up missing mass as a mortal sin?

Do you discuss birth control as inherently evil?

While I cannot say for sure, it seems you’ve singled out homosexuality, out of the dozens of commonly practiced actions labeled by your church as immoral, for special attention. You are opposed to ‘gay relationships’? What does that mean, they should be illegal even if not married?

Not just you, it seems Christians in general, and especially Catholics are absolutely OBSESSED with homosexuality, while ignoring many other things considered abominations.

Or do you actively support stoning disobedient children to death?

This argument was in response to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I think if homosexuals want to join the military, they should keep their private lives to themselves. It shouldn’t even be an issue in the military. When you sign up, you follow a different set of rules. And I’m not just focused on homosexuality. I know people who are having having premartial sex, and I told them that they need to go to Confession. Somebody told me that I’m brainwahsed because I’m pro-life, but I still stood up for what was right. I’m not wishy washy.

-Jeanne

 

[kozlosap]

This argument was in response to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I think if homosexuals want to join the military, they should keep their private lives to themselves. It shouldn’t even be an issue in the military. When you sign up, you follow a different set of rules. And I’m not just focused on homosexuality. I know people who are having having premartial sex, and I told them that they need to go to Confession. Somebody told me that I’m brainwahsed because I’m pro-life, but I still stood up for what was right. I’m not wishy washy.

-Jeanne

What on earth does being pro-life have to do with discriminating against gay people? Can’t compare apples and oranges. Same comment on sex outside of marriage, what does that have to do with being pro-life? I know many pro-life people who do not “hate” or obsess about our gay citizens (and soldiers). I guess that must make them “pro-choice”.

 

[Seeker2010]

This argument was in response to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. I think if homosexuals want to join the military, they should keep their private lives to themselves.

You must be young, as it sounds like you don’t remember the debate surrounding ‘DADT’. Prior to that, just BEING homosexual was enough grounds for separation from the military, whether you were public about it or not, and believe you me the church that you follow so loyally had just as big a conniption fit about that as they’re having about gay marriage today.

But now, it’s even considered normal and acceptable to a devout Catholic such as yourself.

And 20 years hence, so will gay marriage.

BTW, you didn’t answer me about stoning disobedient children to death, for the same instruction book from God that labeled homosexuality as an abomination told us we have to do so, just wondering if you think we should follow all instructions from God, or just some of them?

 

[St_Francis]

What on earth does being pro-life have to do with discriminating against gay people? Can’t compare apples and oranges. Same comment on sex outside of marriage, what does that have to do with being pro-life? I know many pro-life people who do not “hate” or obsess about our gay citizens (and soldiers). I guess that must make them “pro-choice”.

Since Jeanne was responding to someone who seemed to think that she was bringing up the topic of homosexuality and never mentioning any other sins, I think that her response was appropriate.

And it was Seeker who brought up fornication, not Jeanne.

 

[Newbie2]

You must be young, as it sounds like you don’t remember the debate surrounding ‘DADT’. Prior to that, just BEING homosexual was enough grounds for separation from the military, whether you were public about it or not, and believe you me the church that you follow so loyally had just as big a conniption fit about that as they’re having about gay marriage today.

But now, it’s even considered normal and acceptable to a devout Catholic such as yourself.

And 20 years hence, so will gay marriage.

BTW, you didn’t answer me about stoning disobedient children to death, for the same instruction book from God that labeled homosexuality as an abomination told us we have to do so, just wondering if you think we should follow all instructions from God, or just some of them?

I think you’ve had this question answered in another thread, but I’ll repeat the answer here in case you missed it. Catholics are not bound to Mosaic (Levitical) law.

Not to mention that the bible is not merely an “instruction book”.

 

[Seeker2010]

\Catholics are not bound to Mosaic (Levitical) law.

That’s great news! Homosexuality is no longer an abomination!?! Alright, so I guess the church will start trying to put gays ‘in their place’?

 

[St_Francis]

That’s great news! Homosexuality is no longer an abomination!?! Alright, so I guess the church will start trying to put gays ‘in their place’?

Homosexual activity is against natural law, which oddly enough is still in effect.

Could you document whatever led you to say that the Church tries to put those with homosexual attractions “in their place”?

 

[Seeker2010]

Could you document whatever led you to say that the Church tries to put those with homosexual attractions “in their place”?

A few weeks reading posts here.

As for ‘natural law’, I find what I’ve read about it not very compelling.