Homosexuality

[vsedriver]

genetics doesn’t matter. Morality isn’t based on genetics.

homosexuality is a disorder of sexual orientation. Acting on this disorder is sinful.

 

[Debora123]

As far as I’m concerned, sodomy is anal penetration. In any case it certainly doesn’t sound very safe or healthy to be going from the anus into the vagina. Nasty infections come to mind. And it certainly is against nature, which is, in my mind, against God, which equals sin.

I agree, it is gross and possibly unhealthy… but then again, so are potato chips, and yet they are not sinful. Unhealthy isn’t always a reason for something to be sinful.

Oral sex is also “unnatural” but is licit as foreplay in a marriage. I am still awaiting a response from an apologist.

 

[Jmp15945]

There is absolutely ZERO evidence to support homosexuality being genetic. There is no gay gene.
Homosexuality is the result of one or more of upbringing/environment/choice.
Active homosexuality is not only a sin but it is a grave sin.

Being gay, I’ve done a lot of research on the topic. However I’ve only done research on male homosexuality ( curious as to whether it was environmental/genetic/biological )
I do not believe it’s genetic, but there is a lot of evidence for it being biological. There is a large percentage of twins that share the trait of homosexuality, but it’s much smaller between regular brothers. Twins however, don’t always share a sexual orientation. Which means that it is not genetic. (Both Identical and fraternal twins have a higher percentage of homosexuality, even when adopted into separate homes)

However, it is MUCH higher and I don’t think it’s because of environment. Simply because of other research I’ve done on homosexuality and the brain. The brains prove there is some biological link to being gay, just as there is to many other things, such as serial killers, or alcoholics having differently shaped brains from those that are not. Do not twist my words, I’m not comparing them in sin, only in the science.

“Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men.”

One more thing I’ve come upon in research is that gay men tend to have an enlarged hypothalamus. Now, I don’t know what that is, but it’s a physical difference and it’s in the brain

I’ve read in my research that when a female is pregnant with a male, her body produces antibodies (or something, im not citing a source for this, you can google it) that fight the presence of the male hormones the baby creates. It feminizes the brain but the baby still develops as a male.

One more study I’ve heard, but doesn’t interest me (doesn’t apply to me). Is the ratio of the index finger to the ring finger. The majority of gay men have different proportions to the majority of straight men, or so I’ve heard. This is simply found by googling “homosexual finger test” so I won’t even bother citing my source for that.

I’ve come to the conclusion that, because I’m one of the few here who actually experiences SSA, and it’s always been something in the back of my mind since I was little. Same sex attraction is in fact biological in nature, I don’t think it’s genetic though.

One more quote from the article I didn’t know as I was writing this post.

“Is there any evidence of this happening? There is some evidence that increased steroids in the womb may increase the chances that a girl will be a lesbian. Some studies show that the more older brothers you have, the more likely it is for you to be gay. Also, gay people tend to be left handed much more often.”

Now, I’m not trying to change your mind on homosexuality as a sin. I know it is, that is my cross to bear. However, don’t claim there isn’t evidence without doing your research. The evidence I’ve heard from christians for my situation was that I was either molested, my mother was overbearing, and I didn’t have a male role model.

My mother wasn’t there, I had 3 older brothers, and I was never molested. None of the most common christian theories apply to me. I played in the dirt just like a regular boy, and I played basketball and swam all summer just like everyone else. The christian theories never applied to me, I knew it wasn’t a choice, I knew I was always different, I knew it wasn’t environmental.

I’m only 16 and know of so many theories of the cause of homosexuality. I would not have done so much research if I thought I was like this by some fault of my own.

It’s a sin, but I KNOW it’s not their fault. Homosexuals can remain celibate, and I’m not trying to change anyones mind here on the sin part of it, just trying to educate. I KNOW that it’s not a choice.

time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html#ixzz1Q2QU31VC
thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=155

 

[michelleds]

No, I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. What I was saying was simply that all things being equal, having to wait for a period before sex is defined as not a sin is easier than being told your desire for sex will forever remain unfulfilled, unless you want to go to Hell.

and you might walk in front of a bus tomorrow.

Remember that the sufferings of this life bear no proportion to the rewards of the next. The happiness of Heaven is so great, so unspeakable, that we would gladly purchase one hour of its enjoyment by the sacrifice of all earthly pleasures and by the endurance of all earthly sorrows. The Sinner’s Guide, Ven Louis of Granada

 

[John21652]

I agree, it is gross and possibly unhealthy… but then again, so are potato chips, and yet they are not sinful. Unhealthy isn’t always a reason for something to be sinful.

Oral sex is also “unnatural” but is licit as foreplay in a marriage. I am still awaiting a response from an apologist.

Deborah, you have inadvertently touched on something that ethicists have mulled over for centuries. That is the question of why something os wrong, or, to phrase it slightly differently, they have mulled over the wrongness of an act, or group of actions.

You said* “unhealthy isn’t always a reason for something to be sinful”.* My response is, “are you sure about that”? After all, St. Paul told us our bodies are a temple of God and we should, therefore, respect them. In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul says -

9 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Thus one could argue that unhealthy is indeed sinful because unhealthy is not respecting the body, the temple of God.

As well, the Catechism tells us at **2288 **

“Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.”

And fuurthermore at **2290 **

The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

So we are indeed called upon to lead a ‘healthy’ lifestyle, but at the same time shunning the modern preoccupation of ‘worship’ of the body. Now if we refer back to the Cardinal virtues, it is not hard to see that certain acts and omissions pertaining to the way we use our bodies are indeed harmful and therefore sinful. So, someone who gorges themselves upon potato chips may very well be sinning!

Ethical theories do indeed focus on what makes actions wrong, or right, as the case may be. Morals are, in the main, in place to regulate the existence of man as a social animal. However, morals also pertain to the actualisation of the self, so that an individual may achieve his, or her proper ends. Behaviour that unduly risks the individual is indeed immoral and it is also immoral because it puts at risk the common good.

A very famous English juror, Lord Chief Justice Devlin, one posed the question does it harm society if one man goes home and gets blind drunk after work each day. The answer is fairly obvious. He then asked, does it harm society if half of all men went home and got drunk after work each night. The answer to that is fairly obvious too! Morality has a private as a well as a public factor and the behaviour of many does indeed impact on society. Even the Catechism tells us at 1905

“In keeping with the social nature of man, the good of each individual is necessarily related to the common good, which in turn can be defined only in reference to the human person:”

As Lord Devlin pointed out and to which you alluded with your potato chip analogy, it is all a matter of degree.

 

[James1215]

Jmp,

Thanks for sharing your research! I agree homosexuality is not a choice, and think its biological basis (or bases) are complex. What you say is also interesting because it contradicts the idea that gay people have been taught accidentally to be confused about their gender, or whatever, which seemed like nonsense. Personally, I could never regard gay sex as intrinsically wrong though.

Best wishes,

James

 

[James1215]

Michelle, I said ‘all other things being equal’ walking in front of a bus would be most irregular. On Heaven and Hell, it would be difficult for us to find agreement, anyway

 

[James1215]

Buffalo, if New York is predominantly against gay marriage, why would students/campaigners go there to tell them what they already know or advocate what they already believe?

And as far as honking goes, even a supporter could not properly read their signs…

 

[Jmp15945]

Jmp,

Thanks for sharing your research! I agree homosexuality is not a choice, and think its biological basis (or bases) are complex. What you say is also interesting because it contradicts the idea that gay people have been taught accidentally to be confused about their gender, or whatever, which seemed like nonsense. Personally, I could never regard gay sex as intrinsically wrong though.

Best wishes,

James

Thanks. I wasn’t trying to change anyone opinion on the sin, just that it’s a choice. It upsets me when people make such strong assumptions without experiencing it first hand, and telling those that have differently.

As for whether -I- consider it a sin, doesn’t really matter. I’m not getting into my research on that, haha, things like that always get offensive for both sides.

If it does happen to be a sin though, I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone says it is.

 

[James1215]

Right there with you!

 

[michelleds]

I’m only 16

Thanks. I wasn’t trying to change anyone opinion on the sin, just that it’s a choice. It upsets me when people make such strong assumptions without experiencing it first hand, and telling those that have differently.

As for whether -I- consider it a sin, doesn’t really matter. I’m not getting into my research on that, haha, things like that always get offensive for both sides.

If it does happen to be a sin though, I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone says it is.

Jmp, I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my more autobiographical posts, but I’m a 43 year old SSA woman. I lived as an out lesbian for over 20 years. Please, please don’t allow yourself to be swept down the road of active homosexuality. That is where choice comes in. The feelings are or might be beyond choice, but to act on those feelings, that is definitely a choice. It is a choice of the momentary physical over the Eternal God. You really are making that choice–earthly pleasure over Jesus’ Passion. (and we all make that kind of choice in various ways, that’s not a purely homosexual path–we ALL can chose the world over God.)

I pray daily for forgiveness for wasting time God gave me, for leading others into sin. I pray in gratitude that I did not die while I was in the wasteland of sin. Now, don’t get me wrong, if you’d asked me 5 years ago if i was “in a wasteland of sin”, I would have said no, that I was happy. I was not depressed or alcoholic. But I absolutely beyond the friendship of God, and it was entirely my doing, my choice.

My personal belief is that Satan has way more to do with SSA than biology, psychology or upbringing.

 

[Newbie2]

Jmp,

Thanks for sharing your research! I agree homosexuality is not a choice, and think its biological basis (or bases) are complex. What you say is also interesting because it contradicts the idea that gay people have been taught accidentally to be confused about their gender, or whatever, which seemed like nonsense. Personally, I could never regard gay sex as intrinsically wrong though.

Best wishes,

James

For those who believe that homosexuality is not a choice, do you believe that it always not a choice i.e. that nobody chooses to engage in homosexual behavior just for the kicks, so to speak?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

For those who believe that homosexuality is not a choice, do you believe that it always not a choice i.e. that nobody chooses to engage in homosexual behavior just for the kicks, so to speak?

great question!

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo, if New York is predominantly against gay marriage, why would students/campaigners go there to tell them what they already know or advocate what they already believe?

And as far as honking goes, even a supporter could not properly read their signs…

Hello… The media and activists would have our duped Senators believe something different.

Since so many NY’ers are against it it should go to referendum rather than the hands of a few who I am sure have received some promises for their vote.

 

[Jmp15945]

Jmp, I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my more autobiographical posts, but I’m a 43 year old SSA woman. I lived as an out lesbian for over 20 years. Please, please don’t allow yourself to be swept down the road of active homosexuality. That is where choice comes in. The feelings are or might be beyond choice, but to act on those feelings, that is definitely a choice. It is a choice of the momentary physical over the Eternal God. You really are making that choice–earthly pleasure over Jesus’ Passion. (and we all make that kind of choice in various ways, that’s not a purely homosexual path–we ALL can chose the world over God.)

I pray daily for forgiveness for wasting time God gave me, for leading others into sin. I pray in gratitude that I did not die while I was in the wasteland of sin. Now, don’t get me wrong, if you’d asked me 5 years ago if i was “in a wasteland of sin”, I would have said no, that I was happy. I was not depressed or alcoholic. But I absolutely beyond the friendship of God, and it was entirely my doing, my choice.

My personal belief is that Satan has way more to do with SSA than biology, psychology or upbringing.

I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut, but you still have SSA… That’s my point to everyone else. There are those that think that homosexuality in itself is a choice, when it’s not. I didn’t say whether I give into the urge or not, because that’s not the point I’m trying to make. I didn’t say whether it was a sin or it wasn’t. However, I don’t think that it’s as grave as a sin as some of the things people tend to compare it to. To clarify, that’s not me saying that I think it’s a sin or it’s not a sin.

 

[buffalo]

You still have SSA… That’s my point. There are those that think that homosexuality in itself is a choice, when it’s not. I didn’t say whether I give into the urge or not, because that’s not the point I’m trying to make. I didn’t say whether it was a sin or it wasn’t. However, I don’t think that it’s as grave as a sin as some of the things people tend to compare it to. To clarify, that’s not me saying that I think it’s a sin or it’s not a sin.

Not a grave sin - let us look at it.

In the beginning you have Cain murdering Abel. If more murder was OK’d then we wouldn’t be here.

If Adam became an active homosexual and denied Eve we wouldn’t be here.

Both of them have a terrible outcome for man. They both violate natural law. They both are intrinsically evil.

 

[Newbie2]

great question!

Thank you.

It certainly changes how we look at a particular case if a person has chosen to adopt homosexual practices due to an inability to control their SSA desires vs. making a complete and uninfluenced choice.

Personally, I believe most homosexual pesons have been born with or developed their SSA while a small percentabe of homosexual persons have simply chosen that lifestyle for the sexual kicks, not having achieved satisfaction through heterosexual relations.

 

[Jmp15945]

Not a grave sin - let us look at it.

In the beginning you have Cain murdering Abel. If more murder was OK’d then we wouldn’t be here.

If Adam became an active homosexual and denied Eve we wouldn’t be here.

Both of them have a terrible outcome for man. They both violate natural law. They both are intrinsically evil.

Thank god adam didn’t.

But that’s exactly what I’m saying. People compare it to some things it shouldn’t be compared to. If it is a sin and I’m going to compare it to another, I would choose something more relatable, like contraception or sex before marriage.

Comparing being gay to murder, rape, pedophilia, ect. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison at all. The fact is, when someone engages in homosexual sex with another who consents, and they wait until consenting age just like a regular couple, then you can’t compare it to a sin where there is a victim.

They chose the sin, there is no victim. Maybe it’s bad spiritually, but it can’t be compared to where there is a victim. That’s what upsets me when people try to explain how it is wrong, there are other ways then comparing it to something it’s not similar to.

That was the entire point of my post- people compare it to things that aren’t comparable, just to get the point across that is it a sin. I didn’t say it was or wasn’t a sin, once again that’s not my point at all. I don’t think it has a place being compared to something like murder because it’s not murder. Abel didn’t say “Cain, Okay I’m ready, murder me”

EDIT: I read your post again, and you twisted my words! I didn’t say it wasn’t a grave sin, I just said I don’t think it’s as grave as the sins people compare it to. Then you go on to compare it to murder!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Thank you.

It certainly changes how we look at a particular case if a person has chosen to adopt homosexual practices due to an inability to control their SSA desires vs. making a complete and uninfluenced choice.

Personally, I believe most homosexual pesons have been born with or developed their SSA while a small percentabe of homosexual persons have simply chosen that lifestyle for the sexual kicks, not having achieved satisfaction through heterosexual relations.

And also with more and more social acceptance of homosexuality, there is a lot more experimental sex, bisexual sex, etc. I think there is a small percentage of people who are for whatever reason, truly homosexual, but there are more who are just confused, or got into sex too early in life, or think it is provacative to have homosexual relations. Look how much is on TV and other media these days.

 

[StOwen]

Homosexuality is not genetic. I say this as a psychologist, not as a Catholic. It is not however a choice either.

Yes yes yes why isn’t this an option its so obvious?