Homosexuality

[strings385]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

 

[Allegra]

Whether they are born that way or become that way due to the fallen nature of man, I think they are telling the truth when they say that the inclination toward SSA is outside of their control.

 

[MaryT777]

I believe original sin has caused a disordered world and yes homosexuality like all issues
is a part of that.

 

[MaeganFlinchum1]

Whether they are born that way or become that way due to the fallen nature of man, I think they are telling the truth when they say that the inclination toward SSA is outside of their control.

Agreed.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

The fall brought about many Crosses for humanity; homosexuality being on of them.

 

[TK421]

I don’t think there can be any doubt that SSA is largely inborn because you have millions of chaste people following Christ that will admit to that. I trust the word of my brothers and sisters. That doesn’t mean it is God’s will for them to pursue their desires anymore than it is God’s will for a person to pursue anything evil.

Also, I have no doubt that homosexual behavior can also be learned as a fetish. I have personal experience in this, and you can see that observed in modern and past societies. In Japan it was once the norm for samurai men to have sex with each other, and yet to the best of our knowledge about 2-5% of the population is actually gay. We also know that it isn’t strictly genetic, otherwise there would be a 100% chance for identical twins to be either both gay or both straight, but the rate is actually at about 50%. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the other influences are strictly environmental (it could also be something related to prenatal development).

Also, it should be pointed out that homosexuality and heterosexuality are not defined as either one or the other. You’re not born 100% gay or 100% straight.

 

[SMGS127]

I have trouble with two quotes:

I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design.

But that would be arguing that someone who is born intersex, with missing enzymes that cause death within a few months due to SIDS, etc. would be “contrary” to His design because clearly it is not God’s plan for infants to die (or anyone to die, really, that was our fault too) or people to be born without one gender clearly showing. Original sin corrupts us from birth in many ways, and that has nothing to do with how God knows us.

I don’t think there can be any doubt that SSA is largely inborn because you have millions of chaste people following Christ that will admit to that. I trust the word of my brothers and sisters. That doesn’t mean it is God’s will for them to pursue their desires anymore than it is God’s will for a person to pursue anything evil.

Also, I have no doubt that homosexual behavior can also be learned as a fetish. I have personal experience in this, and you can see that observed in modern and past societies. In Japan it was once the norm for samurai men to have sex with each other, and yet to the best of our knowledge about 2-5% of the population is actually gay. We also know that it isn’t strictly genetic, otherwise there would be a 100% chance for identical twins to be either both gay or both straight, but the rate is actually at about 50%. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the other influences are strictly environmental (it could also be something related to prenatal development).

Also, it should be pointed out that homosexuality and heterosexuality are not defined as either one or the other. You’re not born 100% gay or 100% straight.

Can I ask you whether you think that the presence of SSA, the lack of OSA, or both are inborn? It sounds from your last statement that you don’t think anyone is born with the lack of OSA OR SSA, and I want to check that with you before responding.

 

[TK421]

Can I ask you whether you think that the presence of SSA, the lack of OSA, or both are inborn? It sounds from your last statement that you don’t think anyone is born with the lack of OSA OR SSA, and I want to check that with you before responding.

The best current understanding of human sexuality is that our desire is not absolutely 100% hetero or homosexual. Like everything else, it is complex and dynamic. So yes, I don’t think a person is absolutely devoid of any OSA or SSA.

Heterosexual people, usually very promiscuous and non-squeamish ones, are known to develop the fetish and can become somewhat bisexual in practice.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

Original sin is the work of the devil

 

[SMGS127]

The best current understanding of human sexuality is that our desire is not absolutely 100% hetero or homosexual. So yes, I don’t think a person is absolutely devoid of any OSA or SSA.

Heterosexual people, usually very promiscuous and non-squeamish ones, are known to develop the fetish and can become somewhat bisexual in practice.

Hmm. The reason I ask is that, while I have known straight and gay women who have ventured into the others’ dating pools, I have rarely (if ever) seen a guy do so without considering himself bi. I don’t really know that many super-promiscuous people though, so I guess I wouldn’t know about when immorality in sexuality is taken to an extreme.

So my current strategy when discussing what my advice would be to a gay person from a Catholic standpoint, I usually say that I recommend discerning your vocation as a whole, and then, if you don’t feel called to religious life, my advice is sex-specific. I recommend girls who haven’t tried dating men to at least try it before abstaining from dating (unless they feel called to abstain), but I usually recommend that guys go straight down the dedicated singles path for the reasons stated above. Would you advise me to also recommend to gay guys to try dating women if they never have?

Maybe this is stereotypical of me, but my male friends have always told me that dating, for them, is both about personality and visual to a high degree; I’ve never known a guy who just didn’t care about the visual. However, I’ve known MANY women who can be with a guy just because he knows how to make her smile and feel at ease, regardless of physical appearance. I felt that extended to sexual orientation as well.

In addition, it’s easier to deal with female impotency than male impotency when it comes to sexual arousal, and considering the marital act is very important to most marriages, I felt that was another category to add into consideration of how I give advice.

Am I being too stereotypical?

 

[eamonnroma]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

I can assure you that people are ‘born that way’. If someone is born with a physical defect also intrinsically evil?

 

[Lasting_faith]

Bottom line, we don’t know what causes some people to have a interest in the same sex as he/she have.

Back in 1900 some doctors had find what they thought was the reason, a nerv called “nervus homosexualis”. It is a nerv that goes from the upper thigh under the groin up to the spinal nervsystem. And surprise surprice, it has nothing to do with being gay. Doctors don’t have the answer why some of us turn out gay.

But the good news is that God love gay-people very very much, and they are called to a life in chastity and celibacy and we all should pray for them once in a while that God will give them strength to last in a pure virtue.

 

[Michael_Allen]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil? I’ve heard many people say they think that people are born this way. I don’t think this is so. To me that would be like saying that God imprinted something into that person that is totally contrary to His plan and design. I think that it is both from original sin and temptation from Satan. What are your thoughts?

God bless!

Hi Strings

The view I take is perhaps different to many in that I believe everything has a purpose (Isaiah 46:10). What are gay people, and the rest of us, supposed to learn, I wonder? Perhaps “the other” is placed among us to teach us something?

Just a different way of looking at things.

God bless +

Michael

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Maybe it’s ultimately the effect of original sin, but I think there’s a lot of steps in between.

A proposal: Homosexual attractions are a symptom of some deeper issue. But the same symptom may have different causes: I get a runny nose from a cold or from allergies. So there is no singular cause of homosexual attractions, which explains why research is all over the map on this. There are dispositions that make these issues more common, yes, but no common cause.

What sort of deeper issue might we be talking about? In my case, I trace my SSA (I have SSA) to a traumatic experience in childhood that basically deprived me of my dad. From that point, I didn’t have anyone to show me masculine affection, and I felt completely excluded from the lives of the other boys around me, especially once I reached puberty. I think my intense desire to be loved by a man led to a natural curiosity about what a man was really like, which became sexualized over time.

In one way, then, the homosexual feelings have been a blessing for me. There is a real need here, still, for me to experience love from other men. If I didn’t have SSA, then I would never be aware of that need. Mind you, I know the correct way of pursuing this need is not to relate to other men sexually, nor do I relate to other men sexually. But I need to find contexts in which I can feel close to other men (usually not men with SSA), and experience love from them.

So, like usual, the symptoms stink, but they point to a disease that needs healing.

Hope this helps.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So my current strategy when discussing what my advice would be to a gay person from a Catholic standpoint, I usually say that I recommend discerning your vocation as a whole, and then, if you don’t feel called to religious life, my advice is sex-specific. I recommend girls who haven’t tried dating men to at least try it before abstaining from dating (unless they feel called to abstain), but I usually recommend that guys go straight down the dedicated singles path for the reasons stated above. Would you advise me to also recommend to gay guys to try dating women if they never have?

Hmmmm. Depends on what we mean by “gay”. I would guess that most gay men have at least some physical attraction to women. Speaking as a man who – if not Catholic – would probably self-identify as gay, I can tell you that I cannot imagine *not *being visually attracted to women. I’m more attracted to men (with the exception of my wife), but the attraction to women is very real.

If someone like me were part of the gay community, though, there would be a lot of pressure for me to downplay my attraction to women. There’s a “girls are icky” factor to the way gay men talk.

I don’t think the issue is whether a man with SSA can satisfy a woman, sexually. If he becomes attracted to that woman, he can. I think the issue is whether a man with SSA has the proper emotional and spiritual resources to withstand temptation within a marriage. I would definitely not recommend a compulsive porn user start dating women unless he first gets his own house in order. Marriage doesn’t fix these problems.

I think many men with significant same-sex attraction are called to celibacy. But certainly not all!

 

[on_the_hill]

But that would be arguing that someone who is born intersex, with missing enzymes that cause death within a few months due to SIDS, etc.

Not to derail the thread, SIDS is sudden infant death syndrome, and to my knowledge its cause has not been determined, but being born ‘intersex’ has nothing to do with it.

 

[on_the_hill]

Do you think that homosexuality is an effect of original sin or do you think that it is the work of the devil?

Isn’t this kind of the same thing? Wasn’t original sin the work of the devil?

If you’re asking whether people are born gay (biologically) or if they succumb to temptation later in life, that’s a different question.

There’s no doubt in my mind that at least some, if not nearly all gay people are born that way. I fully believe it’s biological. And I don’t mean people who “experiment” or are sexual thrill seekers. I mean people who are homosexual both physically and psychologically, who are attracted to same sex both sexually and emotionally. (most gay people, that is. I’m personally familiar with two women who chose to lead a lesbian lifestyle as adults).

As Credo in Deum posted, it’s another cross to bear. Just as I was born with bad eyesight, with genes to lose my hair as I age, asthma, and opposite sex attraction.

 

[Dorothy]

All things work unto good to those who love God. With God all things are possible.

The grace of God can be with us to withstand all kinds of crosses. We just need to cooperate with the Lord.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Not to derail the thread, SIDS is sudden infant death syndrome, and to my knowledge its cause has not been determined, but being born ‘intersex’ has nothing to do with it.

No, we don’t know what causes it, but the chase is on.

However, it is impossible to guess, or link it to something someone is born with. But I can not see any medical reason, and with that I mean some chemical reaction, that would be the reason that explain why someone is gay, some bi, some straight.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Isn’t this kind of the same thing? Wasn’t original sin the work of the devil?

If you’re asking whether people are born gay (biologically) or if they succumb to temptation later in life, that’s a different question.

There’s no doubt in my mind that at least some, if not nearly all gay people are born that way. I fully believe it’s biological. And I don’t mean people who “experiment” or are sexual thrill seekers. I mean people who are homosexual both physically and psychologically, who are attracted to same sex both sexually and emotionally. (most gay people, that is. I’m personally familiar with two women who chose to lead a lesbian lifestyle as adults).

As Credo in Deum posted, it’s another cross to bear. Just as I was born with bad eyesight, with genes to lose my hair as I age, asthma, and opposite sex attraction.

There is no sin in being gay as long as you stay in celibacy and live a pure life.