Homosexuals Catholicism and Protestants

[CatherineofA]

I am Southern Baptist and I have noticed that some Protestant denominations (Example-United Methodist Church) are embracing homosexuality aka taking a non judegemental stance. In the Southern Baptist Church, homosexuality is a sin and is seen as a choice.

This is my question: Does the Catholic Church see homosexuality as a sin and a choice? What is the church’s opinion of Protestant denominations that accept this lifestyle?

 

[Mommyof02green]

I am Southern Baptist and I have noticed that some Protestant denominations (Example-United Methodist Church) are embracing homosexuality aka taking a non judegemental stance. In the Southern Baptist Church, homosexuality is a sin and is seen as a choice.

This is my question: Does the Catholic Church see homosexuality as a sin and a choice? What is the church’s opinion of Protestant denominations that accept this lifestyle?

Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 2357:

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

This means that the Homosexual ACTS are forbidden can never be approve. Homosexaul ACTS are sins, just like sexual acts outside of marriage are sins.

Also check out this web-link: couragerc.net/

 

[Mommyof02green]

Here are also the 2 other paragraphes that follow the one I just posted:
Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphes 2358 and 2359:

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Source CCC. web-link: usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.htm

 

[catholicbudgie]

Probably simplistic, I know, but in this case I apply the maxim: love the sinner, hate the sin. In otherwords, I separate the issue from the person. I don’t honestly know whether homosexuality is a process of nature or nurture, and I certainly do not wish to delve into that arguement.

If, and I’m not a theologian, so IF we are all made in God’s image then i have to accept that a homosexual person is also made in God’s image. And, if soomeone is made in His image then who am I to judge?

 

[cestusdei]

Homosexuality is considered an objective moral disorder. It may or may not be subjectively culpabile. All homosexual acts are always mortally sinful. We encourage people who suffer from same sex attraction to seek counseling and to live a holy and chaste life.

 

[LeahInancsi]

I have also notice that the United Methodist Church seems to embracing practing homosexuals. Very sad for a mainstream religion.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I have also notice that the United Methodist Church seems to embracing practing homosexuals. Very sad for a mainstream religion.

Not true.

Regarding the ministry of the ordained

¶304.3, Book of Discipline - While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world. The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church…

¶ 341.6 - Ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions shall not be conducted by our ministers and shall not be conducted in our churches…

From the Social Principles on Human Sexuality - Homosexual persons no less than heterosexual persons are individuals of sacred worth. All persons need the ministry and guidance of the church in their struggles for human fulfillment, as well as the spiritual and emotional care of a fellowship that enables reconciling relationships with God, with others, and with self.The United Methodist Church does not condone the practice of homosexuality and consider this practice incompatible with Christian teaching. We affirm that God’s grace is available to all, and we will seek to live together in Christian community. We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn lesbian and gay members and friends. We commit ourselves to be in ministry for and with all persons…

United Methodists have their ‘cafeteria’ members too. And it would be more accurate to call Methodism a faith. Christianity is a religion.

 

[CatherineofA]

Not true.

United Methodists have their ‘cafeteria’ members too. And it would be more accurate to call Methodism a faith. Christianity is a religion.

There have been some recent commercials running on television for the UNITED METHODIST CHURCH and they insinuate that they don’t judge lifestyle choices.

 

[CatherineofA]

Probably simplistic, I know, but in this case I apply the maxim: love the sinner, hate the sin. In otherwords, I separate the issue from the person. I don’t honestly know whether homosexuality is a process of nature or nurture, and I certainly do not wish to delve into that arguement.

If, and I’m not a theologian, so IF we are all made in God’s image then i have to accept that a homosexual person is also made in God’s image. And, if soomeone is made in His image then who am I to judge?

Many Protestant denominations have the “hate the sin and love the sinner” mentality. I think what many Christians denounce is acting on homosexuality. They also reject that people are natually born that way and that the lifestyle is a choice. God will be the ultimate judge, but Christians can state the facts presented in church tradition and Biblical passages. That is being rightly judgemental because a Christian is making a profession of faith and stating Godly truth.

 

[estesbob]

Probably simplistic, I know, but in this case I apply the maxim: love the sinner, hate the sin. In otherwords, I separate the issue from the person. I don’t honestly know whether homosexuality is a process of nature or nurture, and I certainly do not wish to delve into that arguement.

If, and I’m not a theologian, so IF we are all made in God’s image then i have to accept that a homosexual person is also made in God’s image. And, if soomeone is made in His image then who am I to judge?

All sinners are made in Gods image. The fact they are does not excuse the sin. Although I dont wnat to get involved in judging the sinner i must speak out when we have movements to tell us that sin is not sin, or in the case of many modern churchs condone and embarce not only the sinner but the sin itself.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Many Protestant denominations have the “hate the sin and love the sinner” mentality. I think what many Christians denounce is acting on homosexuality. They also reject that people are natually born that way and that the lifestyle is a choice. God will be the ultimate judge, but Christians can state the facts presented in church tradition and Biblical passages. That is being rightly judgemental because a Christian is making a profession of faith and stating Godly truth.

Every lifestyle is a choice. One has a choice to pray or not to pray. One has a choice to be charitable with their income or not to be charitable. The way one lives may bring out certain choices over others.

However, I don’t believe that any one “chooses” to have ‘homosexual attractions". No more then what someone “choosed” to find attractive in his or her spouse, boyfriend, and girlfriend. For instance, when dating I founded myself geared towards men who were taller then me and funnier. It just was what I liked, what I was attracted too.

There are enough studies out there that suggest that “homosexual” tenancies are a disorder similar to Alcoholism. I have known plenty of Alcoholics in my life. Many of the people I’ve known have been “sober” now for 12 plus years. If you listen to them, they will tell you the urge is still there, and it takes will power and God to keep them for tipping the bottle.

Those who are Alcoholics and/or even drug attacks will tell you it’s an addiction, and they can’t just stop. They have to “CHO0SE” not too, and trust in God to help them. Now, I know plenty of people who can pick up a drink have 1-2 beers on a Friday night and will be find. Never touch the stuff again, there’s no addiction. While others, all it takes is 1 beer and they are hooked.

The biggest help for those who suffer from Alcoholism is to stay away from alcohol. Many of them have to make a whole lifestyle change and make “new” friends, because being around their old friend would lead them into their old habits and back to the bottle or drugs.

True lifestyle changes are not easy!!!

I believe this to be the same with homosexuality. I don’t think they choose to have same sex attractions. However, they choose what to do about it. They can live a holy life or a sinful life.

Remember the ACTS are sins. No Christian chooses to be attracted to sin. As a matter of fact if you are a Christian you are called to live a sinless life. However, we all are sinners, we all do some sort of sin. Of course when we do sin, we seek forgiveness from God. Not only forgiveness but we also seek to remedy it so we don’t do the sin again. We seek to make a lifestyle change! A change that can only be done with the grace of God.

Those with Homosexual tendencies are fighting everyday with their temptation of evil. I think they get the short end of the stick at times, as if it’s want they wanted. I don’t think anyone truly wants a battle with evil/sin

They don’t want this battle, no more then those that have to fight the temptation of Gossip.

They don’t want this battle, no more then those that have to fight the temptation of Adultery.

They don’t want this battle, no more then those that have to fight the temptation of lust.

They don’t want this battle, no more then those that have to fight the temptation of Alcohol or drugs if they are a recovering addict/alcoholic.

They don’t want this battle, no more then those that have to fight the temptation of greed.

We all have our battles with evil, our battles with sins what ever they may be. We all are working toward that Christian goal of living a sinless life. It is just that for most of its not front-page news. When was the last you read in the paper about someone battle with Gossip or Lust?

My prayers go out to those that are fighting the battle of “homosexuality” and I pray that they find peace and strength in God.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Not true.

If this is not true, then why are they showing two men with their arms around each other sitting in church along with other minorities. They need to rethink their commercials.

 

[estesbob]

There are enough studies out there that suggest that “homosexual” tenancies are a disorder similar to Alcoholism. I have known plenty of Alcoholics in my life. Many of the people I’ve known have been “sober” now for 12 plus years. If you listen to them, they will tell you the urge is still there, and it takes will power and God to keep them for tipping the bottle.

Those who are Alcoholics and/or even drug attacks will tell you it’s an addiction, and they can’t just stop. They have to “CHO0SE” not too, and trust in God to help them. Now, I know plenty of people who can pick up a drink have 1-2 beers on a Friday night and will be find. Never touch the stuff again, there’s no addiction. While others, all it takes is 1 beer and they are hooked.

The biggest help for those who suffer from Alcoholism is to stay away from alcohol. Many of them have to make a whole lifestyle change and make “new” friends, because being around their old friend would lead them into their old habits and back to the bottle or drugs.

I.

Very true. I will have 21 years of sobriety November 5 yet I still fight a desire to drink and know if i had even a sip of a beer i would be back to two to three six packs a day within a month

 

[sandusky]

Mommyof02green:

There are enough studies out there that suggest that “homosexual” tenancies are a disorder

This is a touchy subject, and one that inflames peoples’ passions, and God has made very clear statements regarding His person, and attributes, and He has made very clear statements regarding homosexuality.

Regarding God’s attributes, one of those is the attribute of Omniscience—God is all knowing. God knows everything; He is the source of all knowledge.

If God knows everything, why is it that He describes homosexuality as an abomination, and not as a genetic or some other physical disorder, but instead describes it as a moral disorder of one’s own choosing? Is God wrong, or are the studies wrong?

Mommyof02green:

I don’t believe that any one “chooses” to have ‘homosexual attractions".

Scripture says that they do choose it; you might want to read from v 18 for more context; I’m posting v v24-27

Romans 1:24-27

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.

25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

What do you think?

 

[FightingFat]

I think you have to view it with immense sensitivity and handle with prayer.

 

[O.S.Luke]

If this is not true, then why are they showing two men with their arms around each other sitting in church along with other minorities. They need to rethink their commercials.

Leah and Catherine A… I’ve seen the commercials… and I think you’re seeing what you want to see. Insuinuations are how bigotry and misinformation begin.

Nothing can abrogate church law/Book of Discipline. Just like cafeteria Catholics, there will no doubt be Methodists who pick and choose what they want to believe. But Church Law is quite clear on the matter.

O+

 

[ben182]

hi,

I read the posts of sandusky and mommyof02green. Both had points I think. I have experienced ssa so here is my point of view.

I appreciate reading “mommyof02green’s” post. One obvious thing, though, that differs between alcoholism and homosexuality is that if anyone(alcoholic or not) picks up a bottle of beer then this obviously would not necessarily be sinful. Whereas if anyone had sex with someone other than his (or her spouse or engaged willingly in lustful thoughts) then that would be sinful regardless of one having ssa or not. So while it is true that there is some addiction involved in some with ssa there is certainly a difference.

What some studies have shown is that certain people, because of environmental, personality, family, abuse, etc. factors have a PREDISPOSITION to ssa. Hence, in this way, it is not a choice. It was not a choice to be predisposed to this particular type of sin or temptation or attraction(and keep in mind that the degree of attraction varies from one person to the other). I , for one, didn’t and don’t like the fact that people stereotype me as “gay” when I had not had sex with others or engaged in the so-called “gay” lifestyle. It only lead to more confusion and in believing at some point that what the gay propagandists say is true. Thank God he helped me through all this.

On the other hand, there also those have chosen or “experimented” with same sexual activities. There are a lot, I think, of distinctions to be made. One size can’t fit all.

Now, speaking for some who may have been predisposed to ssa, there comes a point where, like in any other sin for any other person, we choose to change what we can and accept what we can’t change while still adhering to the teachings of our faith. Like “mommy” has pointed out, it can be an addiction. But by the very fact that it is an addiction, there are choices that can be made as one seeks to stop the compulsions and behavior. Much of these behaviors/addictions/compulsions have been accumulated over time as responses to legitimate needs which were not or could not be met appropriately by family, peers, society, etc . And some of these behaviors can become so without one’s full knowledge or without a good spiritual foundation. Eventually, one who seeks too stop the compulsive behaviors needs to get into his/her root issues and personal history, etc.

I for one didn’t choose these attractions with my full knowledge. I do know that we are all born into sin. Also that the sins of my father(or family) combined with my own personality may have led to this particular disorder of mine. Sin doesn’'t show up in each of us in the same way.

But, yes, as an adult of reasoning mind, there are somethings which I can start choosing and some things which I can stop. But all things (including those I don’t have the “power” to change) I have to trust God’s grace with.

 

[Big_Dave]

If this is not true, then why are they showing two men with their arms around each other sitting in church along with other minorities. They need to rethink their commercials.

I believe that you are seeing the commercials for the United Churches of christ. They are the congragational Churches. I believe that I am right about this.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Ben, you hit the nail on the head. That is more of what I was trying to say!

As for the passage of Romans: I don’t disagree with the word of God. The passage talks about the ACTS themselves, and again the ACTS themselves are sins. I said that before, and I’ll say that again.

Romans is clearly talking about the ACTS themselves. Meaning, this is what will happen if you willfully, phyically do these things, regardless of what God has said.

Remember to be guilty of a sin, especially a “Mortal” sin, 3 conditions have to be met. 1) The object is a grave matter 2) committed in full knowledge 3) deliberate consent.

From Scripture we know that lust and adultery are abomination. We also know from scripture that just by looking at someone with lust we commit adultery. (Mathew 5:27-30)

So let set up a scenario: I am out and about. I see a man walking past me. As soon as I see him, without thinking, without total conscience, about it I say to myself: “Man, He’s hot!” As soon as thought passes I say to myself: “Self, what are you thinking? You have a loving husband at home you don’t need this. This is wrong.”

Let’s stop here: At this point have I committed a sin??? YES or NO

Okay, now lets go on: I just got done saying “Self, what are you thinking? You have a loving husband at home you don’t need this. This is wrong”. Well I listen to myself and I stop. I never think about this man and go about my business. At this point have I committed a sin??? YES or NO

But what if it went the other way??? I just got done saying “Self, what are you thinking? You have a loving husband at home you don’t need this. This is wrong”, and I went ahead and thought about the man some more. At this point have I committed a sin??? YES or NO

It’s not easy to live a “holy” life. We have to face choices along the way all the time, and we have to make a choice to walk with Christ or not to walk with Christ. I hope that we all choose to walk with HIM.

Thank you, Ben, for sharing your insight.

 

[mrs_abbott]

We encourage people who suffer from same sex attraction to seek counseling and to live a holy and chaste life.

It’s not a disease! :banghead: It’s a way of life that these people feel. They may not be following God’s design (ex. man gets with woman, like Adam and Eve) but they’re not ill.
It sickens me that people will chastise these people who pose no harmful threat on society but yet we have illegal immigrants and terrorists running amuck and we’re all too terrified to speak up against the REAL harm in society today.
I think we have our priorities backwards.