Homosexuals in Spain are mocking Our Lady and here's a petition against it

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The link is directly to a letter of protest.

How about some details first, such as what are we protesting?
 
Yes, what exactly are the homosexuals in Spain doing which mocks Our Lady?
 
Benedictus said:
More importantly, why should I be against free speech?
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Because some speech crosses the line, that’s why. The freedom to air one’s viewpoint does not guarantee there can be no reaction to the speech, such as this petition.
 
DOShea said:
Because some speech crosses the line, that’s why. The freedom to air one’s viewpoint does not guarantee there can be no reaction to the speech, such as this petition.
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I realize that the calendar may be offensive to some people, but the petition is addressed to the Spanish Minister of Justice. Essentially, the petition is asking the Spanish government to prohibit the distribution of the calendar–that is, to prohibit free speech. Whatever you may think of someone’s calendar, government inhibiting free speech is not a good idea.
 
DOShea said:
Because some speech crosses the line, that’s why. The freedom to air one’s viewpoint does not guarantee there can be no reaction to the speech, such as this petition.
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This is very true, and the calendar does cross the line, especially depicting the Virgin in topless and a sexually suggestive manner. However, it is free speech, and I don’t think we should encourage the government to stifle that. It just causes too many problems.

However, this kind of behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated, and I think something should be done to address the company distributing the calendars themselves. We need to let them know that we understand that they do not believe the same things that we do, but in a civil world there is such a thing as respect and tolerance of other’s beliefs, and they should have integrity and honor that, especially if they are seeking tolerance themselves…😦
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
We need to let them know that we understand that they do not believe the same things that we do, but in a civil world there is such a thing as respect and tolerance of other’s beliefs, and they should have integrity and honor that, especially if they are seeking tolerance themselves…😦
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While I very much agree that this sort of thing is going too far and in no way support it… people have a tendency to treat others the same way they’ve been treated, so I rather understand where they’re coming from in thinking that this sort of action is “ok”. From their perspective, they’re just giving back what they got.
 
Two things.

First, the company that distributes these things has already made a choice. They are not ignorant of the standards of good taste, decency, nor how it may be offensive to Catholics.

Second, it is fallacy to think it is wrong to NOT seek government intervention in any action if you think it is WRONG. Why don’t I have to right to drive without a seat belt? Why can’t I put sharp fenders on my car if I want? Who is anyone to say I shouldn’t have that right? Examined the other way, who are YOU to say murder is wrong? What if I think it’s perfectly fine? What if 70% think it’s perfectly fine?

The point is that there are activists who dislike that anyone criticizes their behavior and makes a moral judgment about it. They run around trying to convince everyone that no one has a right to do that, but they DO have that right. It’s the same right that allows us to call murder wrong and ban it, to call using heroin wrong and ban it (wait - aren’t you discriminating against addicts? :eek:).

This is the kind of action we see on one hand from a group who, as a whole, is critical of the Catholic church for not embracing their lifestyle. Well who in their right mind CAN when you have behavior like this? Imagine the outcry there would be if you drove past a Catholic Church one morning and outside there was a giant billboard showing something anti-gay using the same offensive tone this calendar takes? How many “oh, it’s just free speech, so be quiet” types do you imagine would show up to support it? Answer: zero, because it wouldn’t be viewed as free speech, but as hate speech.

So, as the saying goes, what’s good for the goose…
 
DOShea said:
This is the kind of action we see on one hand from a group who, as a whole, is critical of the Catholic church for not embracing their lifestyle. Well who in their right mind CAN when you have behavior like this? Imagine the outcry there would be if you drove past a Catholic Church one morning and outside there was a giant billboard showing something anti-gay using the same offensive tone this calendar takes?
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As I said, they’re giving back what they got. I’m sorry it wasn’t you personally that treated them so, but to many, they have gotten, and still get, much to that same effect as you describe. An effective billboard, and even hand made and carried signs that tell them God Hates them, etc and so on, from people who are supposedly Christians.

Consider, for a moment, schoolchildren who become bullies. They lash out at kids weaker than them ~not~ because those are the kids who hurt them, but generally because they were hurt by others (one or both parents, for example) to whom they can’t fight back against. They carry around a lot of anger and lash out with it even at those who don’t deserve their anger.

I’m not saying do nothing if you truly feel you need to, but I would suggest doing it with a charitable spirit, at least trying to understand that. “Forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
So, as the saying goes, what’s good for the goose…
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Where is it written to “do unto others as they have done unto you”?
 
I think their anger and confusion has been manipulated by Communists or secret society types, who often foil even good works, like Martin Luther King’s to achieve their own ends. In any case, the gay agenda must be challenged like abortion is. Hinder the hellish movements as you understand the feelings of those pushing the agendas. If the agenda pushers are doing unlawful acts, they may even need to be restrained jurisprudently. It’s not an either-or situation.
 
DOShea said:
Two things.

First, the company that distributes these things has already made a choice. They are not ignorant of the standards of good taste, decency, nor how it may be offensive to Catholics.
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Understood, but there is still a freedom of speech element that must be respected. Yes, its wrong, and yes it is outraging, but for those of us blessed with the truth I think a more appropriate reaction should be sadness for their state, and Christ’s love to win them to the kingdom.
DOShea said:
Second, it is fallacy to think it is wrong to NOT seek government intervention in any action if you think it is WRONG. Why don’t I have to right to drive without a seat belt? Why can’t I put sharp fenders on my car if I want? Who is anyone to say I shouldn’t have that right? Examined the other way, who are YOU to say murder is wrong? What if I think it’s perfectly fine? What if 70% think it’s perfectly fine?
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Freedom of speech is not the same as relativism in morality. They can say whatever they feel like, print whatever they feel like, and distribute it to whomever they like provided it is not pornographic (in this case, it is so minors should not be allowed to purchase it). They are not, however, allowed to act on hateful bias. They cannot attack catholics, desecrate statues owned by the church, and they cannot muder anyone or physically assault them. They can distribute whatever literature they like, and as anyone knows we can choose not to support it, and ask them in love to acknowldge that we have a difference in opinion, and they need to keep our faith out of the arguement. The best way to destory an idea isn’t to burn to books, its to get people to not read them. Freedom of speech must be respected.
DOShea said:
The point is that there are activists who dislike that anyone criticizes their behavior and makes a moral judgment about it. They run around trying to convince everyone that no one has a right to do that, but they DO have that right. It’s the same right that allows us to call murder wrong and ban it, to call using heroin wrong and ban it (wait - aren’t you discriminating against addicts? :eek:).
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Agreed, and they are free to dislike all they want, and say how much they disagree if they want. Just as we are. It’s back to freedom of speech again, which is wholly different from prohibition and murder.
DOShea said:
This is the kind of action we see on one hand from a group who, as a whole, is critical of the Catholic church for not embracing their lifestyle. Well who in their right mind CAN when you have behavior like this? **Imagine the outcry there would be if you drove past a Catholic Church one morning and outside there was a giant billboard showing something anti-gay using the same offensive tone this calendar takes? ** How many “oh, it’s just free speech, so be quiet” types do you imagine would show up to support it? Answer: zero, because it wouldn’t be viewed as free speech, but as hate speech.
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Yes, there would be an outcry. Lots of people would send “hate mail” to the church, but I can tell you that unless the sign was telling people to physically harm gays, they government would not interfere. This is actually happening right now, all the time, all over America with Westboro Baptist. They are literally promoting hate in the streets but because they are not infringing on other’s rights their right to free speech is protected by federal government, and should be. In this country, and in all others, freedom of speech should always be protected.
DOShea said:
So, as the saying goes, what’s good for the goose…
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As I have pointed out above with Westboro Baptist, it is. Gays are bashing christians, and Christians are bashing them back. I personally think that we need to be the better people, since we represent the almighty and most loving God, and stop hating and love them. Not by accepting their sin, but by not trying to deprive them of their right to free speech. 🙂
 
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