Honest and Dishonest Questions

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brosam said:
Yes, you were all quite vicious. To be honest, the only Roman Catholic person here who’s treated me like a human being is mannag.
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It is no secret that there are a good number of Protestants on these forums, who consistently post from a Protestant prospective, with whom most of the Catholics here get along quite well. They are some of our favorite people. So you might ask yourself why you are not in that group.
 
VociMike said:
It is no secret that there are a good number of Protestants on these forums, who consistently post from a Protestant prospective, with whom most of the Catholics here get along quite well. They are some of our favorite people. So you might ask yourself why you are not in that group.
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Zooey
Contarini (Edwin)
Grace Seeker
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rr1213
 
Just for discussion’s sake, I’m going to take Shea’s argument a bit further.

Proposition:

Those who maintain to be “seekers after truth” but refuse to engage in discussion, present clear, rational arguments, address relevant evidence, or acknowledge errors do more harm than good to their cause.

For example, let’s say I post on a non-Catholic forum. I post the following question:

“Why do Protestants worship wood?”

Several Protestants respond with variations of, “What? We worship God. Where did you get that idea?”

I then respond with the following argument:
  1. Catholics use crucifixes.
  2. Crucifixes feature Christ on the cross.
  3. Protestants do not use crucifixes.
  4. Protestants use crosses.
  5. Crosses do not feature Christ.
  6. During Protestant worship services, Protestants face the cross.
  7. The cross is made of wood.
  8. Therefore, Protestants worship wood, not Christ.
Various posters then present evidence that my argument is fallacious—that the cross is in fact a well-known symbol of Christ, that Christ’s absence on the cross is a symbol of his Resurrection, that Protestants pray to God, not wood, etc.

I acknowledge none of it, but instead say, “Protestants celebrate Christmas on December 25th, a well-known pagan holiday, WITH A TREE!”

Once again, posters demonstrate that Protestants do not, in fact, worship Christmas trees, and that Christmas is the celebration of Christ’s birth.

I ignore all of it, and say, “Why are you attacking me? Is it because I refuse to worship wood as you do?”

Has this line of discussion helped, hindered, or in no way affected my defense of Catholic faith?
 
brosam said:
As usual, this is a dishonest insinuation on your part. I haven’t discussed anything here that you did not bring up first.
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Take responsibility for yourself, brosam, and don’t blame your actions on others. We are ALL responsible for staying on topic. If someone else got off, it is your job not to feed into it.
 
brosam said:
Yes, you were all quite vicious. To be honest, the only Roman Catholic person here who’s treated me like a human being is mannag.
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I apologize too if I have reacted in an uncharitable manner to your pejorative and accusatory comments about our faith. You have been repeatedly told that your use of the word “Roman” and characterizing our faith as “Roman” is insulting to us. However, that does not excuse insulting you in return! Jesus asked us to love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us, and that is what we need to do.
 
VociMike said:
Yep. Also ALLFORHIM and SyCarl, and I’m sure some others I can’t think of at the moment. But I know them when they post. 🙂
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Don’t forget cranky Angainor, the Lutheran. She can be prickly, but she’s honest.
 
What I read in the OP is the reason that individuals leave the Church is that they have been wounded in some way.
Because each of us is a member of the Body of Christ, we do carry his wounds. We carry the wounds that we and others have inflicted on each other.
What is missing is knowledge about how to heal those wounds. We are blessed within the Catholic Church with the Sacraments to which we rely upon the healing grace that comes directly from God through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus told his followers, “If when you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has a grievance against you, go first, be reconciled, and then present your gift.”
It is not a matter of whether or not I am angry and need to forgive the person who has hurt me, as important as that is. We are called to approach the person whom we may have hurt and ask for their forgiveness. This takes humility. As with Sacramental Confession, it means mortifying the flesh and delivering it up to shame and death through Christ [Boenhoeffer].
As St. John writes, “How can we love the God we have not seen if we do not love the brother that we have seen.”
 
I’d like to chime in…on-topic. 😃
My experience and witnessing confirms Shea’s argument. Actually, even prior to getting into apologetics, my logic class taught clearly about the fallacies of argument, to the point where you can mathematically cite when someone makes specious conclusions (i.e. uses straw man, non sequitur, false dichotomies…etc…and of course the whole ignore-your-irrefutable-point-and-try-to score-on-another-topic)

Wasn’t it Bishop Sheen who said something to the effect of “They would reject the divinity of Christ if it were asserted by the Catholic Church.” (I’m sure I butchered that quote)
 
MarcoPolo said:
I’d like to chime in…on-topic. 😃
My experience and witnessing confirms Shea’s argument. Actually, even prior to getting into apologetics, my logic class taught clearly about the fallacies of argument, to the point where you can mathematically cite when someone makes specious conclusions (i.e. uses straw man, non sequitur, false dichotomies…etc…and of course the whole ignore-your-irrefutable-point-and-try-to score-on-another-topic)

Wasn’t it Bishop Sheen who said something to the effect of “They would reject the divinity of Christ if it were asserted by the Catholic Church.” (I’m sure I butchered that quote)
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Maybe the Venerable Archbishop Sheen DID say that, but read my sig!
 
Teflon93 said:
Just for discussion’s sake, I’m going to take Shea’s argument a bit further.

Proposition:

Those who maintain to be “seekers after truth” but refuse to engage in discussion, present clear, rational arguments, address relevant evidence, or acknowledge errors do more harm than good to their cause.

For example, let’s say I post on a non-Catholic forum. I post the following question:

“Why do Protestants worship wood?”

Several Protestants respond with variations of, “What? We worship God. Where did you get that idea?”

I then respond with the following argument:
  1. Catholics use crucifixes.
  2. Crucifixes feature Christ on the cross.
  3. Protestants do not use crucifixes.
  4. Protestants use crosses.
  5. Crosses do not feature Christ.
  6. During Protestant worship services, Protestants face the cross.
  7. The cross is made of wood.
  8. Therefore, Protestants worship wood, not Christ.
Various posters then present evidence that my argument is fallacious—that the cross is in fact a well-known symbol of Christ, that Christ’s absence on the cross is a symbol of his Resurrection, that Protestants pray to God, not wood, etc.

I acknowledge none of it, but instead say, “Protestants celebrate Christmas on December 25th, a well-known pagan holiday, WITH A TREE!”

Once again, posters demonstrate that Protestants do not, in fact, worship Christmas trees, and that Christmas is the celebration of Christ’s birth.

I ignore all of it, and say, “Why are you attacking me? Is it because I refuse to worship wood as you do?”

Has this line of discussion helped, hindered, or in no way affected my defense of Catholic faith?
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Bump.

Any thoughts on my formulation above? Does this line of “questioning” which ignores responses as hypothesized above likely help, likely hinder, or likely not affect my credibility in defending the Catholic faith?
 
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