Honest and Dishonest Questions

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I guess the larger question is, “Why pose as a seeker of truth if you’re not?”

In the heat of argument, we all make mistakes. It’s a telltale sign of the insincere that they absolutely will not admit to being wrong no matter what.

Case in point—in a discussion this morning on the primacy of Peter, I made the boneheaded assertion that no ECF said anything about Christ’s reference to the rock upon which he would found his Church indicating Peter’s confession versus Peter himself.

Calvinator promptly posted a relevant excerpt from Chrysostom showing just that. D’oh!

Should I have dug in my heels and said, “Well, Chrysostom wasn’t really orthodox; he said many other wrong things, what I MEANT was a reliable ECF?”

Should I have simply ignored Calvinator and claimed my question was never answered?

Or should I have admitted that I was wrong, Calvinator was right, and conceded the point that gave to those arguing against the primacy of Peter on these grounds?

I chose option C.

Option A or B just seem dishonest and ultimately counterproductive to me, beyond indicators of the deadly sin of pride.

I think the vast majority of folks on these boards own up right away to being mistaken. It’s no big deal given the amount of discussions we have.

Why do those who refuse to do so do so?
 
guanophore said:
Roman Catholics are Christians, brosam, which is one place you are standing on an errorneous premise. Most of the readers misunderstood the question because Catholics think “the Gospel” means the teaching of Jesus, and not the four spiritual laws book. The thread was removed because you were hostile and pejorative toward the Catholic faith, which is against the forum rules. Read over the forum rules, and try again!
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Actually, the thread was removed because the Roman Catholics couldn’t get through a single post without attacking me personally.
 
Teflon93 said:
And rather than get this thread removed, which I really would like to discuss, I will put Brosam on kind notice—please discuss this topic, find another thread to discuss, or we’ll have to notify the moderators that you’re violating the rules of the Forum.
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As usual, this is a dishonest insinuation on your part. I haven’t discussed anything here that you did not bring up first.
 
brosam said:
Then tell me what Gospel they’re preaching.
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WIthout question they are preaching the Gospel of salvation through the Person of Jesus Christ. There is no other Gospel.

The issue in evangelism – Catholic or non-Catholic is HOW to preach the Gospel in different settings. The Holy Spirit enables us to preach the One Gospel in many ways so that it can be heard.

I know a Protestant who does it by helping people manage their farm animals. I know Catholics who do it by giving medical care to AIDS patients. Father Corapi does it by power-house evangelical preaching. Scott Hahn does it by scriptural exegesis.
 
brosam said:
As usual, this is a dishonest insinuation on your part. I haven’t discussed anything here that you did not bring up first.
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You haven’t discussed anything here which is on topic, and have utterly refused to engage the topic.

Moreover, you have now accused me of being a liar, a charge I take very seriously as a service academy graduate. We have an honor code which outlives our military service.

And beyond that, as a Christian, I have a right to expect my Christian brother to treat me as Christ commanded we treat each other.

I’ll request moderator attention to this thread. Please refrain from posting any more off-topic material in the meantime as you are in violation of forum rules in so doing.
 
mercygate said:
WIthout question they are preaching the Gospel of salvation through the Person of Jesus Christ. There is no other Gospel. The issue in evangelism – Catholic or non-Catholic is HOW to preach the Gospel in different settings. The Holy Spirit enables us to preach the One Gospel in many ways so that it can be heard.

I know a Protestant who does it by helping people manage their farm animals. I know Catholics who do it by giving medical care to AIDS patients. Father Corapi does it by power-house evangelical preaching. Scott Hahn does it by scriptural exegesis.
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Mercygate-

Let’s not rise to the OT bait here. I value your insights but really would like to discuss Shea’s argument here.
 
Teflon93 said:
Mercygate-

Let’s not rise to the OT bait here. I value your insights but really would like to discuss Shea’s argument here.
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You are right.

But it seems we are being given a prime example of Shea’s case. I haven’t read the article, but I will the minute I get home.
 
brosam said:
Actually, the thread was removed because the Roman Catholics couldn’t get through a single post without attacking me personally.
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:confused: I don’t recall any personal attacks. If you felt that I attacked you as a person I sincerely apologize. 😊 It was not my intent to attack you, but to defend my Faith.
 
Teflon93 said:
For those of you who don’t get The National Catholic Register, Mark Shea had a very apt column this week, judging from recent threads like “Are you Born Again?” and “Evangelism question.”

Shea uses a discussion ostensibly about the evidence John wrote the Gospel which bears his name to highlight insincere questioners who claim to be “seeking the truth” but in fact are avoiding it at all costs (emphasis mine):

Is Shea right?

Why or why not?
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How does one get the National Catholic Register? Is this online where I can read the whole article?
 
Hopefully this is On Topic
Honest and Dishonest Questions
Dishonest would be those that come here with the idea that they are going to show Catholics the error of their ways and to try and get them truly “saved” and bring them back to “true” Christianity. Most I think just want to win arguments to feel more secure in their beliefs.

There are many that come here with the idea that they are going to evangelize and prosletize the Catholic Christians here. Since they can’t exactly do that outright because it is against the forum rules, they take other tactics. They start baiting threads like a certain “How to Get to Heaven” quiz and thread.
Code: 
  One thing Bosam said when asked did he believe Catholics were Christian he said: (and these are his exact words because I cut and pasted it directly)
I liken Roman Catholicism to Mormonism in that there may very well be people there who are Christians, but if they are, they’re Christians in spite of Roman Catholic teaching and not because of it.
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What I take from that statement is that he believes there may be some true Christians in the Catholic Church, but they must be ignorant and as soon as they read the Bible and see the error of their ways they will surely leave the Catholic Church for a true Bible church and he is here to show us the error of our ways"

However that doesn’t account for many of us here who have left or are leaving Fundamentalist Protestantism for the Catholic Church. We believe we have found in the Catholic Church the early church that Christ founded and preserved form the gates of hell.
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If someone  wants to know about my journey and how I came to that conclusion and was honestly curious as to why I would leave Evangelical/Fundamentalism I would be more than happy to tell them my journey. However I would not want to put my testimony out there to someone who simply wants to degrade it.
Most of the time you can tell just by the tone of the post (sometimes you can’t because tone and sarcasm sometimes does get misinterpreted in a post.) wether it is an honest or dishonest question. I just get mad at myself when I let myself get baited and sucked into a one sided debate.
 
Pixie_Dust said:
:confused: I don’t recall any personal attacks. If you felt that I attacked you as a person I sincerely apologize. 😊 It was not my intent to attack you, but to defend my Faith.
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Yes, you were all quite vicious. To be honest, the only Roman Catholic person here who’s treated me like a human being is mannag.
 
brosam said:
Yes, you were all quite vicious. To be honest, the only Roman Catholic person here who’s treated me like a human being is mannag.
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Could you please tell me what it was that I said that was so vicious so I don’t mistakenly say it again elsewhere? Feel free to PM so as not to derail this thread further.

Blessings,
 
How does one define “personal attacks” in these forums? Is disagreeing with someone already a “personal attack”? Is not accepting someone’s statement already construed as a “personal attack”?

I think we need to lay down clearer ground rules on what constitutes a “personal attack” in these forums.
 
brosam said:
Yes, you were all quite vicious. To be honest, the only Roman Catholic person here who’s treated me like a human being is mannag.
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Brosam, I will forgive you 7 times 70 times for posting off-topic in this thread and trying to derail it, I will even forgive you 7 times 70 times for bearing false witness against me and your other brothers and sisters in Christ by claiming we haven’t treated you “like a human being.”

Will God forgive you for persisting in such behavior and in such lack of Christian charity?
 
PinoyCatholic said:
How does one define “personal attacks” in these forums? Is disagreeing with someone already a “personal attack”? Is not accepting someone’s statement already construed as a “personal attack”?

I think we need to lay down clearer ground rules on what constitutes a “personal attack” in these forums.
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CONDUCT RULES
Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language, rude comments and innuendo.
Do not use abbreviated terms such as “Prots” or “radtrad” etc. that may be offensive to the group to which they refer. Full names are best.
Do not use character substitutions in proper names, such as “Amerikkkans” or “Demonrats” or “Repubicans” etc.
Inappropriate or offensive graphics, links, or profile entries are not permitted.
Messages should be short. Do not post lengthy replies (especially replies that consist largely of quotes from an earlier message).
Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

Personal attack would be “Brosam, you are a…[insert perjorative]”. It is NOT, “Brosam, you are wrong.”

The bolded portion is a particular conduct violation I would call Brosam’s attention to in this thread. Off-topic is yet another.

This is a DISCUSSION forum. Accusation forums may be had quite cheaply elsewhere on the Internet.
 
There you go. And a discussion means that we are trying to clear things up. Brosam can put forward his opinion on matters but shouldn’t think that someone disagreeing with him or stating a differing opinion is already a “personal attack”. That shows a lack of charity.

Deus Caritas Est.
 
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