Honest question about contraception

[someperson555]

i know this topic has been done like a million times lol, but please, i would really appreciate it if anyone could give an honest well thought out response.
I want to start out by saying that i support contraception. but i support it for a good reason, there really is next to nothing in the bible about contraception (WAIT, im going to talk about Onan in a minute). i am not in support of it because “i just want to do my own will”. i wholeheartedly believe that the church is mistaken on their stance on contraception. why follow a rule that was never even meant to be a rule? that is why i feel it is more important to revisit this issue.
now as for my reasons:
i started researching why the church placed a ban on contraceptions, and since i knew that all church teaching is based on the bible, i decided to search what the bible says about contraception. I only found one passage so far. it was the story of Onan. for those not familliar with it, basically this guy has to concieve a child with his dead brothers wife, but he never intends to get her pregnant therefore he uses “coitous interuptus” to prevent having children. for this God kills him. now, this story is probably the reason why church fathers thought that contraception was wrong. HOWEVER, lets look at the story a little closer. the key here is that Onan NEVER wanted to have children. therefore he wanted to exclude the possibility of pregnancy FOREVER. this is ofcourse wrong, because it goes against Jesus’s teaching of “procreation”. BUT if a couple intends to have children, then they fulfill their obligation of procreation! this means that there is no reason to ban condoms as long as the couple has children. i mean come on, be reasonable, dont you think a couple with 3 children has fulfilled their obligation of “procreation”? therefore in summation, i think God just meant that its only a sin to use contraception, if you intend to never have children. but it could be allowed at times when a pregnancy would be inconvenient.
that is what i think the church has misunderstood. which is why the teaching on contraception COULD be changed.
what do you think?

 

[karebear92]

i know this topic has been done like a million times lol, but please, i would really appreciate it if anyone could give an honest well thought out response.
I want to start out by saying that i support contraception. but i support it for a good reason, there really is next to nothing in the bible about contraception (WAIT, im going to talk about Onan in a minute). i am not in support of it because “i just want to do my own will”. i wholeheartedly believe that the church is mistaken on their stance on contraception. why follow a rule that was never even meant to be a rule? that is why i feel it is more important to revisit this issue.
now as for my reasons:
i started researching why the church placed a ban on contraceptions, and since i knew that all church teaching is based on the bible, i decided to search what the bible says about contraception. I only found one passage so far. it was the story of Onan. for those not familliar with it, basically this guy has to concieve a child with his dead brothers wife, but he never intends to get her pregnant therefore he uses “coitous interuptus” to prevent having children. for this God kills him. now, this story is probably the reason why church fathers thought that contraception was wrong. HOWEVER, lets look at the story a little closer. the key here is that Onan NEVER wanted to have children. therefore he wanted to exclude the possibility of pregnancy FOREVER. this is ofcourse wrong, because it goes against Jesus’s teaching of “procreation”. BUT if a couple intends to have children, then they fulfill their obligation of procreation! this means that there is no reason to ban condoms as long as the couple has children. i mean come on, be reasonable, dont you think a couple with 3 children has fulfilled their obligation of “procreation”? therefore in summation, i think God just meant that its only a sin to use contraception, if you intend to never have children. but it could be allowed at times when a pregnancy would be inconvenient.
that is what i think the church has misunderstood. which is why the teaching on contraception COULD be changed.
what do you think?

Well, the biggest problem I have with what you said was that nothing in the Bible says it is wrong. That isn’t how the Catholic Church works. Tradition is just as important as the Bible, and while I don’t think the teaching on contraception has been infallibly declared to the highest degree (I am forgetting what it is called) it is still a teaching of the Church that follows tradition.

The Bible was written almost 2,000 years ago, so obviously some things that occur today don’t occur in the Bible, which is why Christ left a Church.

For example, one could say that human cloning is not a sinful act, as it doesn’t say anything about it in the Bible, but that does not mean human cloning is moral.

Or looking further into the future, when humans will be able to genetically determine the characteristics of their children before they are born, the Bible says nothing about that being immoral, but that does not mean it is moral.

All I am saying is Christ left a Church for a reason, and followers of Him are to follow Church teaching.

 

[E_7]

Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God’s plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.

Gen. 28:3 - Isaac’s prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.

Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God’s command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.

Gen. 38:9 - also, the author’s usage of the graphic word “seed,” which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan’s death.

Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.

Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches, which have all strayed from the Catholic Church, reject this fundamental truth (few Protestants and Catholics realize that contraception was condemned by all of Christianity - and other religions - until the Anglican church permitted it in certain cases at the Lambeth conference in 1930. This opened the floodgates of error).

Lev. 21:17,20 - crushed testicles are called a defect and a blemish before God. God reveals that deliberate sterilization and any other methods which prevent conception are intrinsically evil.

Deut. 23:1 - whoever has crushed testicles or is castrated cannot enter the assembly. Contraception is objectively sinful and contrary, not only to God’s Revelation, but the moral and natural law.

Deut. 25:11-12 - there is punishment for potential damage to the testicles, for such damage puts new life at risk. It, of course, follows that vasectomies, which are done with willful consent, are gravely contrary to the natural law.

1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring “not your will God, but my will be done.”

Psalm 127:3-5 - children are a gift of favor from God and blessed is a full quiver. Married couples must always be open to God’s precious gift of life. Contraception, which shows a disregard for human life, has lead to the great evils of abortion, euthanasia, and infanticide.

Hosea 9:11; Jer. 18:21 - God punishes Israel by preventing pregnancy. Contraception is a curse, and married couples who use contraception are putting themselves under the same curse.

wait for my second post…

 

[E_7]

Mal. 2:14 - marriage is not a contract (which is a mere exchange of property or services). It is a covenant, which means a supernatural exchange of persons. Just as God is three in one, so are a husband and wife, who become one flesh and bring forth new life, three in one. Marital love is a reflection of the Blessed Trinity.

Mal. 2:15 - What does God desire? Godly offspring. What is contraception? A deliberate act against God’s will. With contraception, a couple declares, “God may want an eternal being created with our union, but we say no.” Contraception is a grave act of selfishness.

Matt. 19:5-6 - Jesus said a husband and wife shall become one. They are no longer two, but one, just as God is three persons, yet one. The expression of authentic marital love reintegrates our bodies and souls to God, and restores us to our original virginal state (perfect integration of body and soul) before God.

Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God’s ability to “join” together. Just as Christ’s love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial, and a husband and wife reflect this union, so a husband and wife’s love for each other must also be selfless and sacrificial. This means being open to new life.

Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld.

Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful. Self-giving love is life-giving love, or the love is a lie. The unitive and procreative elements of marital love can never be divided, or the marital love is also divided, and God is left out of the marriage.

1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will.

1 Cor. 7:5 - this verse supports the practice of natural family planning (“NFP”). Married couples should not refuse each other except perhaps by agreement for a season, naturally.

Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh, corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life.

Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.

Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g., surgery to prevent conception) is gravely sinful. Many Protestant churches reject this most basic moral truth.

1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a “work” through which women may be saved by God’s grace.

Deut. 22:13-21 – these verses also show that God condemns pre-marital intercourse. The living expression of God’s creative love is reserved for a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman.

Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20 - these verses mention the word “sorcery.” The Greek word is “pharmakeia” which includes abortifacient potions such as birth control pills. These pharmakeia are mortally sinful. Moreover, chemical contraception does not necessarily prevent conception, but may actually kill the child in the womb after conception has occurred (by preventing the baby from attaching to the uterine wall). Contraception is a lie that has deceived millions, but the Church is holding her arms open wide to welcome back her children who have strayed from the truth.

Here’s the link.

 

[E_7]

Also, on the same link, at the end, you can read what our Church Fathers had said.

 

[E_7]

And here is another link, but this time from EWTN. I found this one more helpful, I believe.

 

[someperson555]

Here’s the link.

im sorry but ive seen all of these quotes, and none of them contradictwhat i said. i dont think you finished reading my post, or maybe you didnt understand it (im sorry, sometimes i have a hard time expressing myself when i have a lot to say and im tired lol)
those bible verses talk about COMPLETELY excluding children from the marriage. yes, it tells us to “be fruitful”. a couple can have 20 kids and still use condoms when a pregnancy would be inconvenient. that is my point, the use of condoms should be allowed to temporarily prevent pregnancy. for example, sterilization is a whole different subject than contraception, since if a person is sterilized he can NEVER have kids. this is DIFFERENT from contraception and from what i posted. im merely saying that as long as a couple has kids or intends to, they should be able to use condoms since they are still in living in accordance with biblical teaching. yes the bible says be fruitful, but it doesnt say that EVERY sex act must be for proceration, or that everytime a couple has sex, it must be with the intention of getting pregnant.

 

[E_7]

im sorry but ive seen all of these quotes, and none of them contradictwhat i said. i dont think you finished reading my post, or maybe you didnt understand it (im sorry, sometimes i have a hard time expressing myself when i have a lot to say and im tired lol)
those bible verses talk about COMPLETELY excluding children from the marriage. yes, it tells us to “be fruitful”. a couple can have 20 kids and still use condoms when a pregnancy would be inconvenient. that is my point, the use of condoms should be allowed to temporarily prevent pregnancy. for example, sterilization is a whole different subject than contraception, since if a person is sterilized he can NEVER have kids. this is DIFFERENT from contraception and from what i posted. im merely saying that as long as a couple has kids or intends to, they should be able to use condoms since they are still in living in accordance with biblical teaching. yes the bible says be fruitful, but it doesnt say that EVERY sex act must be for proceration, or that everytime a couple has sex, it must be with the intention of getting pregnant.

No worries, I get it. I’m tired too. But are you going to live your faith based on just what the Bible says or are you willing to accept the Church Teachings?
Look, I didn’t want to break a God-centered friendship with a man who has a religious vocation, but my previous Spiritual Director told me to break the relationship and don’t talk to him cuz I would get in his way. I thought that it was so wrong of that priest to say that, but you know what I did? I obeyed. It hurt a lot, but I obeyed. (I prayed for another SD and I found a new one, and I was thankful to God that my friend accepted my friendship again). Even if you don’t find it right or whatever, the Church says no contraception at all. And, as a good catholic woman, you should accept the Church teachings.

 

[TimothyH]

The Church is the legitimate authority of Christ on earth. The Church is also the infallible interpeter of scripture.

What you are stating is in direct opposition to that infallible interpretation and legitimate authority.

You have set yourself up, for whatever reason, against the authority of Christ.

Are you justifying your own behavior in your own mind? I did on this issue for sixteen years.

-Tim-

 

[someperson555]

No worries, I get it. I’m tired too. But are you going to live your faith based on just what the Bible says or are you willing to accept the Church Teachings?
Look, I didn’t want to break a God-centered friendship with a man who has a religious vocation, but my previous Spiritual Director told me to break the relationship and don’t talk to him cuz I would get in his way. I thought that it was so wrong of that priest to say that, but you know what I did? I obeyed. It hurt a lot, but I obeyed. (I prayed for another SD and I found a new one, and I was thankful to God that my friend accepted my friendship again). Even if you don’t find it right or whatever, the Church says no contraception at all. And, as a good catholic woman, you should accept the Church teachings.

erhm, im a dude lol.
but i know what you mean. look, i will obey the church regardless of how absurd i find some of its teachings. but that is why i am so adamant on bringing light on this issue. not because i just want to use condoms, but because its a serious issue and good actholics deserve to have fair and logical rules. this contraception law, i feel is not either.

 

[someperson555]

The Church is the legitimate authority of Christ on earth. The Church is also the infallible interpeter of scripture.

What you are stating is in direct opposition to that infallible interpretation and legitimate authority.

You have set yourself up, for whatever reason, against the authority of Christ.

Are you justifying your own behavior in your own mind? I did on this issue for sixteen years.

-Tim-

Christ said to peter: “whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven” the church can change its teachings on certain matters. Christ knew the church can make errors, that is why he gave the pope authority to change certain teachings. the church has made errors before, before vatican 2, it was official church teaching that protestants cannot be saved, yet now they made a complete 180, the official doctrine now is that they can be saved as well as other religions. its the same with contraception. in fact, in the 1980s, the church published a “majority report”, in which it stated “that the teaching on contraception can be changed”.

 

[E_7]

erhm, im a dude lol.

oops, my bad, sir. I don’t know why I presumed you were I woman, I apologize.

but i know what you mean. look, i will obey the church regardless of how absurd i find some of its teachings.