"Honey! Do you have time to talk to these gentlemen about scripture?"

[cazayoux]

Howdy!

This past Saturday morning I had two very nice men (one with his 3-year-old son) visit my home.

It was good discussion.
Before they left I told them that I admired them for going door-to-door.
It must be difficult dealing with uncharitable people.

They were Jevovah’s Witnesses.
I didn’t know anything about JWs before Saturday.

I was nervous and excited at the same time.
(Please God give me the words when i need them, give me the silence when i need it)

We talked about statues for most of the time.
They were VERY surprised when I showed them 1 Kgs 7:24-25.

[24] Under its brim were gourds, for thirty cubits, compassing the sea round about; the gourds were in two rows, cast with it when it was cast.
[25] It stood upon twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; the sea was set upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.

I explained thoroughly (hopefully convincingly) that Catholics do not worship statues.

They asked me about confession to a priest as well.
I gave them my scriptural backing for it.

They said they enjoyed the talk and had some homework to do (re 1 Kgs) and would like to come back.
I gave them my home phone number and welcomed them back any time.

Only my second time discussing such things face-to-face with visitors.
SO nervous.
But i think i did okay.

Any suggestions for topics I should bring up about their faith when they come back?
Any suggested resources for preparing myself?

michel

 

[rcjones]

The best resource is your Bible.

You might consider the topic “which God is God”.

But before you do, first ask them if they realize that you and they do not worship the same God. If the answer is yes. Then ask them if they are there to tell you about the God they have chosen, or if they are willing to hear from the real God, whomever He is.

If they are unwilling to hear from the real God, then just shuffle them off. “If anyone comes to you with another gospel…”

But if they are willing to hear from the real God, then pray together to the God of all the universe and lay your belief systems on the altar to be burnt up, as Elijah confronted the priests of Baal.

Since you have a warm relationship, ask them why they believe Jesus isn’t God, then show them why you believe he is.

If they have asked the real God to reveal himself, then God will show himself through his word.

You don’t need to twist arms or anything, just keep sharing the word and why you believe what you do from the word. They will place little stock in tradition.

But don’t spend anytime with them at all if they are unwilling to pray to the real God, whomever he is.

One who worships the real God can pray that daily.

 

[Ruthie]

Go here:

catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

Scroll down to “Are They Awake on the Watchtower?” It and the following 6 tracts will help you to know what they believe and how to answer them.

Just stay charitable!

Ruthie, whose sister is a JW

 

[COPLAND_3]

It sounds like it worked out great! You appeared to have done a good job by not being rude or bitter, there are plenty of ‘Christians’ that treat them that way. And it appears that you showed them that you were not just another Catholic who did not know their Faith.

I had a couple of Mormans come to my house a few weeks ago, and we had a very good discussion, but unfortunately we did not go into any real deep theology. But I complimented their hard work and even let them know that we as Catholics can learn some lessons from them as far as that goes.

My suggestion is to keep learning your faith and be prepared for questions. Forums like this are good places to exercise your brian and your spirit for spreading the seeds of Truth. I don’t think that knowing their beliefs inside and out will benefit you as much as learning our Faith inside and out.

 

[Christy_Beth]

The last time I talked with Mormons was definately my last time. That was several years ago, and they invited me to their “church” for a “service.” Well, a movie based on the parable of the prodigal son was shown. I got to talking with several people afterwards. Well, one of the “missionaries” decided I was ready for baptism. Which really shocked me. Another woman gave me a ride home and told me that she would notify their bishop about that comment. So, I know that they aren’t, necessarily, bad people, it’s just that I don’t want a repeat of that.

 

[COPLAND_3]

So, I know that they aren’t, necessarily, bad people, it’s just that I don’t want a repeat of that.

In my experience, I have found Mormans to be very kind and nice, plus devoted. But they are not a Christian denomination, which needs to be kept in mind.

 

[ChristianRoots]

cazayoux;3972687Howdy!

This past Saturday morning I had two very nice men (one with his 3-year-old son) visit my home.

It was good discussion.
Before they left I told them that I admired them for going door-to-door.
It must be difficult dealing with uncharitable people.

They were Jevovah’s Witnesses.
I didn’t know anything about JWs before Saturday.

I was nervous and excited at the same time.
(Please God give me the words when i need them, give me the silence when i need it)

We talked about statues for most of the time.
They were VERY surprised when I showed them 1 Kgs 7:24-25.

I explained thoroughly (hopefully convincingly) that Catholics do not worship statues.

They asked me about confession to a priest as well.
I gave them my scriptural backing for it.

They said they enjoyed the talk and had some homework to do (re 1 Kgs) and would like to come back.
I gave them my home phone number and welcomed them back any time.

Only my second time discussing such things face-to-face with visitors.
SO nervous.
But i think i did okay.

Any suggestions for topics I should bring up about their faith when they come back?
Any suggested resources for preparing myself?

michel

God bless you and your family.

JWs believe Jesus is inferior to God and only a man, they essentially don’t believe in the Trinity. Ask JWs to reconcile this belief with the Apostle Thomas’ exhultation after seeing the risen Jesus: “My Lord and **My God!.” **or use John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.”

 

[tnystrom]

Howdy!

This past Saturday morning I had two very nice men (one with his 3-year-old son) visit my home.

It was good discussion.
Before they left I told them that I admired them for going door-to-door.
It must be difficult dealing with uncharitable people.

They were Jevovah’s Witnesses.
I didn’t know anything about JWs before Saturday.

I was nervous and excited at the same time.
(Please God give me the words when i need them, give me the silence when i need it)

We talked about statues for most of the time.
They were VERY surprised when I showed them 1 Kgs 7:24-25.

I explained thoroughly (hopefully convincingly) that Catholics do not worship statues.

They asked me about confession to a priest as well.
I gave them my scriptural backing for it.

They said they enjoyed the talk and had some homework to do (re 1 Kgs) and would like to come back.
I gave them my home phone number and welcomed them back any time.

Only my second time discussing such things face-to-face with visitors.
SO nervous.
But i think i did okay.

Any suggestions for topics I should bring up about their faith when they come back?
Any suggested resources for preparing myself?

michel

Jesus is the center of Christianity. His resurrection is critical. His deity is absolutely necessary for Catholic Christianity. I would focus on Jesus and his deity. Remain gracious, God’s spirit be with you.

 

[Dempsey1919]

This is a very interesting thread. I wish I were able to handle the JW’s and the Mormons the way you did.

This is a question for all those who participated in this thread:

If two Jehovah’s Witnesses came to your house, what are the top three topics you would discuss with them, and how would you provide biblical proof that your beliefs are correct?

Also, once you have presented your beliefs and defended them using Scripture, is there any way that you could counter their future rebuttals? I ask this because the OP said that the JW’s were going to do some homework regarding 1 Kings; it is obvious they are going to try and find a way to defend their belief that Catholics worship statues. With this in mind, it would have been great if the OP was able to anticipate their future arguments and refute them in advance.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

they are playing you. I was a JW for 34 yrs, 15 of which I was a fulltime “pioneer” or local missionary. Third generation. JWs are NOT allowed on penalty of excommunication and complete shunning to speak about anything that contradicts their beliefs or be friends with anyone who is not a JW -EXCEPT to convert you. PERIOD. No way around it. If they are coming to your house it is to convert you, they are counting their time as witnessing. Any points or seeds planted have to come from the inside—JWs reject everything you say as coming from the Devil himself. Literally.

If you want to see how to talk to them go to Jeff Schwehm’s website www.catholicxjw.org or one of the other many XJW ones available (Google). Then go to the JWD forum - www.jehovahs-witness.com - and - www.silentlambs.org and see how this dangerous cult has destroyed lives.

Do not be naive.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

they are playing you. I was a JW for 34 yrs, 15 of which I was a fulltime “pioneer” or local missionary. Third generation. JWs are NOT allowed on penalty of excommunication and complete shunning to speak about anything that contradicts their beliefs or be friends with anyone who is not a JW -EXCEPT to convert you. PERIOD. No way around it. If they are coming to your house it is to convert you, they are counting their time as witnessing. Any points or seeds planted have to come from the inside—JWs reject everything you say as coming from the Devil himself. Literally.

If you want to see how to talk to them go to Jeff Schwehm’s website www.catholicxjw.org or one of the other many XJW ones available (Google). Then go to the JWD forum - www.jehovahs-witness.com - and - www.silentlambs.org and see how this dangerous cult has destroyed lives.

Do not be naive.

It seems that you are saying don’t waste your time with JWs and then you post links to former JWs.

It cant be hopeless.

It has to start with someone.

In this case, cazayoux is off to a good start

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

It seems that you are saying don’t waste your time with JWs and then you post links to former JWs.

It cant be hopeless.

It has to start with someone.

In this case, cazayoux is off to a good start

what I am saying is KNOW YOUR ENEMY. And do not be misled–their TEACHINGS are your enemy! You cannot get a JW out by coming at it from the outside! This is what all the well-meaning, but naive, Catholics (and other religions) do—you have to undermine the JW blind faith in THEIR ORGANIZATION. You have to prove them wrong before they will even consider that you may be right. Read the sites I linked. JWs cannot be treated like other non-believers–it is a CULT. They are brainwashed. The old conversion techniques will not work.

The reason why being kind works is because JWs are told that Catholics are all devil worshippers who wish them dead–this causes a cognitive dissonance when they see it is not the way they are told it is. This undermines what they hear at the Kingdom Hall. You cannot ‘plant seeds’ of truth without ripping out their weeds of lies first–they are indoctrinated (they use this word with pride to describe themselves!) to believe that even your Bible is demonized!

You don’t have to listen to me. You can continue to waste your time. You will never win a battle of Scripture with a JW.

I left because I found out in their own Greek Interlinear edition of their New World Translation discrepancies within one of their major teachings. I found it by mistake and on my own. This was after an emotionally traumatic year of suicides and murder. It takes THAT kind of jolt to break their mind control. I chose the Catholic Church because at first it was the polar opposite of JWs–their greatest opponent! I wanted to rebel as far away as possible. But then a study—which JWs do best!—of history proved it was the original Church that Jesus said he would never leave. THEN I was ready for Catholic doctrine.

look at some of those sites–because when the JWs return after ‘doing their homework’–which means reading ONLY JW approved deceptive literature on the subject-- they will come at you with self-righteous guns blasting. The only thing you are accomplishing by inviting them in and approaching it in that way is that you are taking them off the streets and preventing them from talking to someone else who might be duped into it.

You don’t have to take my word for it–there are other XJWs on this forum. I may be the bluntest, but unless you have been a JW, you do not have a clue the extent of their dangers and mind-control.

 

[Ruthie]

While I won’t tell you to avoid the JWs, I can certainly back up what Ravyn says. My sister is a JW, and she believes with absolute certainty that when the Watchtower and/or Awake tells her how to interpret a Bible passage, that is the only possible interpretation. She has the same absolute certainty as Muslims do in their Quran, even though we can prove the Quran wrong.

So be prepared! Read the CA tracts about JWs (find them here) and know what you’re up against!

Ruthie

 

[COPLAND_3]

Dempsey1919

This is a question for all those who participated in this thread:

If two Jehovah’s Witnesses came to your house, what are the top three topics you would discuss with them, and how would you provide biblical proof that your beliefs are correct?

This is how I would personally handle it. First of all, I would wait for their questions, and I would not make the first move. I don’t plan on being a jehovah’s witness and I am not interested in what they believe (though I do know enough about them), I feel that I am quite grounded in my Catholic Faith. But here are my foundational topics that I feel comfortable having a dialogue about. You mentioned about using Biblical proof, but with these answers you cut through the dilemma that arises about whose interpretation of the Bible that you go with that everyone calls “Biblical proof.” Biblical proof for them is apostasy to me and vice versa, so don’t limit yourself to that alone.

1. Where the Bible came from. To make a long story short it was the Catholic Church that determined the canon.
2. Apostolic Succession The Church has taught the same thing for 2000 years and has an unbroken chain of succession that goes all the way back to the Apostles. The Church has preserved the Faith that Jesus Christ established! I have a bookshelf of ancient Christian writings to back that up!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi michel, ask them for their phone numbers and home addresses.

You should stop with side issues and get to the main issue, the atonement. They deny that Jesus is God. So, how can a mere creature atone for the sins of all people in all time? Only an infinite divine being could do so.

Start by defining terms like finite, and infinite.

 

[MsOKing]

While I won’t tell you to avoid the JWs, I can certainly back up what Ravyn says. My sister is a JW, and she believes with absolute certainty that when the Watchtower and/or Awake tells her how to interpret a Bible passage, that is the only possible interpretation. She has the same absolute certainty as Muslims do in their Quran, even though we can prove the Quran wrong.

Does not the catholic church have the same bias? As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the CC offers THE ONLY CORRECT interpretation of scripture & doctrine and everyone else is wrong.

Being very familiar with JWs, I find people who are so angered and repulsed by them cannot be truly Christian. If one is truly proud of their catholic faith and are so sure of ITS ABSOLUTE TRUTH, why would you not offer to them some of your knowledge, for the sake of their soul. Why would one turn away someone who is “brainwashed”? Would it not be better to be kind and empathetic and try to “plant a seed of truth” in them.

Yes, one would risk continued visits, but in the end, who knows, maybe, by ones conversation, a seed of conversion will be planted.

Just my peace, fellow Christians.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Does not the catholic church have the same bias? As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the CC offers THE ONLY CORRECT interpretation of scripture & doctrine and everyone else is wrong.

Being very familiar with JWs, I find people who are so angered and repulsed by them cannot be truly Christian. If one is truly proud of their catholic faith and are so sure of ITS ABSOLUTE TRUTH, why would you not offer to them some of your knowledge, for the sake of their soul. Why would one turn away someone who is “brainwashed”? Would it not be better to be kind and empathetic and try to “plant a seed of truth” in them.

Yes, one would risk continued visits, but in the end, who knows, maybe, by ones conversation, a seed of conversion will be planted.

Just my peace, fellow Christians.

no one said to give up on JWs, but do it the way it has the most chance of working. They are not like other people and you can’t use the same old methods and expect success. But like I said–I was only one of their best for 34 yrs–what do I know?

 

[MsOKing]

no one said to give up on JWs, but do it the way it has the most chance of working. They are not like other people and you can’t use the same old methods and expect success. But like I said–I was only one of their best for 34 yrs–what do I know?

I, like you, am a former member and know what to expect when coming for a visit. Some of my family members are JWs and we talk frequently.

I am not asking anyone to “invite” the JWs into their home if they are not comfortable with it. Just be polite about declining their invitation. They are people, who are just doing what they think is right…sharing what they think is the “absolute truth”

I get tired of certain people who call themselves “Christian”, who bash others that have different faith values than themselves.

 

[DL82]

The JWs’ Bible has been altered to remove any reference to Jesus being God, without any reference to the original Greek texts. For example, John 1 in the Watchtower Bible says “the word was with God and the word was a god”, to deny the full divinity of Jesus.

However, the references to a multi-person deity in the Old Testament, which are more subtle, are still there.

For example, in Exodus 33:20, Moses asks God to show His face, and God answers that no man can see His face and live, but then in the same chapter (Ex 33:11) it says that Moses spoke to God face-to-face inside the tabernacle. The God who cannot be seen is the Father, but the God who speaks face-to-face is the Word, God the Son.

Also, in Judges 6, the character of ‘The Angel of the Lord’ appears, among other places in the OT histories. ‘The angel’ (as opposed to ‘an angel’) has unique properties, in that the people of Israel call him ‘Lord’ (unlike the angel in Revelation, who insists on not being worshipped, because he is just a servant of God), and in Judges 6, Gideon offers sacrifice directly to the angel. There is no distinction in Judges 6 between the angel of the Lord and the Lord Himself, when the angel speaks, God speaks, when Gideon sacrifices to the angel, he sacrifices to the Lord. The angel (i.e. messenger) of the Lord is another way of saying the Word of God, He is of one substance with the Father.

Did I mention, my confirmation saint is St Athanasius, a great defender of the doctrine of the Trinity! Place them under his protection and intercession.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I, like you, am a former member and know what to expect when coming for a visit. Some of my family members are JWs and we talk frequently.

I am not asking anyone to “invite” the JWs into their home if they are not comfortable with it. Just be polite about declining their invitation. They are people, who are just doing what they think is right…sharing what they think is the “absolute truth”

I get tired of certain people who call themselves “Christian”, who bash others that have different faith values than themselves.

I agree bashing is wrong. But calling the JW religion a cult and the members brainwashed is not bashing, since they fit the definition perfectly.
What got you out? Are you shunned by your family still in? (I lost every relative JW or not and every friend I ever knew when I left.)