Honor killings

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I’ve heard several news media (some Catholic, some not) stories about honor killings among certain Islamic groups in certain Islamic countries.

These stories are usually about male family members killing daughters or sisters because she has brought disgrace upon their family with an unmarried pregnancy, losing their virginity, dating a non-Muslim, etc.

These killers are sometimes given (comparitively) very light sentences by the courts.

Are honor killing penalties harsher if a pregnant woman is murdered?
 
I am not sure, I know that in Africa a women was ordered to be stoned to death but after she weaned her baby.

This is not just happening overseas, honor killings are happening all over the globe. It recently happened in The DFW area. An Egyptian born man killed his two teen aged daughters and he is still on the run. A reward is now out for his capture, but I believe he is probably overseas now.

It was so very sad. One of the girls on the 911 call said she was dying, The sisters were beautiful with bright futures. They were both honor role students, they tutored, and were in advanced placement classes, They were also involved in sports. Their classmates held a memorial for them and wore pink, the girls favorite color.

LINK
IRVING, Texas – A Dallas-area father may have shot his two teenage daughters to death because their Westernized clothes and behavior brought him shame, family members say.
Police are still looking for 50-year-old Yaser Said of Lewisville. Tuesday night they found his abandonded taxicab parked near an Irving hotel with his two daughters murdered in the back seat.
Investigators say either Sarah Yaser Said, 17, or Amina Yaser Said, 18, called 911 around 7:30 p.m., saying she had been shot, but could not identify her location. Police were able to trace the call to a general location, but found nothing.
An hour later, someone reported a suspicious vehicle near the Omni Mandalay hotel in Las Colinas, which turned out to be the taxi.
FOX 4 spoke with two of Said’s family members who want to remain anonymous. They say Sarah and Amina dressed in Western clothes and listened to pop music. They described Said as angry with his daughters for not acting like proper Muslim girls.
Though police have not named the motive, in some Muslim countries fathers kill their children if they feel their honor has been ruined.
But local Islamic leaders condemn the practice, according to a member of the Islamic Society of North America.
“It has a lot to do with the culture, and nothing to do with the faith,” said Azhar Aziz of the ISNA. He admits that American popular culture often clashes with Islamic values, and says local leaders have campaigned against violence it sometimes spawns.
“The right way to address this issue is to educate people, to talk to people,” said Aziz. “But to take the law into your own hands is not justified at all.”
American clothes, music, MySpace pages-- all of these can cause conflict between parents who want to maintain values and children who want to fit in with friends.
Said was described by neighbors as a quiet man from Egypt. They were stunned to learn police had a capital murder arrest warrant in his name.
Police thought he was hiding in his house in Lewisville on Wednesday morning, and swarms of officers in SWAT uniforms surrounded the place. After bombing the place with tear gas and having snipers on alert for about five hours, officers discovered the house was empty.
Yaser Abdel Said is 6’ 2", about 180 pounds, wearing a black turtleneck, brown coat and tan pants. Police say he’s armed with a handgun and should be considered extremely dangerous.
The mother and brother of the two girls were apparently not involved, and were uninjured, police say.**
 
Select the distinctly Muslim practises below and select the one which seems the most justifiable.
! Honor killing
2. Persecution and murder of non Muslims
3. Special rewards for murdering enemies who are sometimes innocent women and children.
4. Punishing women who are raped,sometimes with death.
5. Punishing those who speak critically of Islam with death and death threats.
6. Treating females as slaves with no rights except those voluntarilly bestowed by men.
7. Teaching children to hate non Muslims especially Christians and Jews.
( this list is not exhaustive and I acknowledge that there are other injustices in the world that have nothing to do with Islam but few of those are endorsed by a religious “holy book”.
 
Please…before someone accuses me of being a hate monger or troublemaker or of intolerance…the Koran is not my holy book and the Koran can and does justify or encourage all of the aforementioned acts.
 
Are honor killing penalties harsher if a pregnant woman is murdered?
In general, no.

In Jordan and Syria, for example, there are still three penal code articles on the books in each country that offer leniency to the perpetrators. The average sentence in Jordan, for example, is six months, and the clock on that starts from the time the perpetrator turns himself into the police (which he often does, because he is proud of his act). So, for example, if it takes nine months for his case to come to trial and the judge gives him a six-month sentence, he will never serve a day.

Other countries, such as Iraq, Pakistan, and Turkey, have attempted to toughen the penalties for these crimes in recent years, but there remain loopholes on the books, as well as problems with enforcement.

Ellen R. Sheeley, Author
“Reclaiming Honor in Jordan”
 
This is not just happening overseas, honor killings are happening all over the globe. It recently happened in The DFW area. An Egyptian born man killed his two teen aged daughters and he is still on the run. A reward is now out for his capture, but I believe he is probably overseas now.
Even before the dishonor killings of the beautiful Said sisters in suburban Dallas, there was the dishonor killing by strangulation of Pakistani-Canadian Aqsa Parvez by her father. And shortly after that, there were the dishonor killings of a suburban Chicago family. A woman, her husband, her child, and the couple’s fetus were killed in an apartment building fire set by the woman’s father. He was incensed because he felt his daughter had married beneath her caste. :mad:

These heinous crimes are definitely on the increase. . .and being exported to lands where they are not indigenous.
 
Please…before someone accuses me of being a hate monger or troublemaker or of intolerance…the Koran is not my holy book and the Koran can and does justify or encourage all of the aforementioned acts.
Actually, the Qur’an doesn’t even mention dishonor killings.

In fact, they are believed to have their origins in misinterpretations of pre-Islamic Arab tribal codes. They pre-date Islam by centuries and are, in fact, un-Islamic. They have more to do with the tribal mentality and culture than with faith.
 
Actually, the Qur’an doesn’t even mention dishonor killings.

In fact, they are believed to have their origins in misinterpretations of pre-Islamic Arab tribal codes. They pre-date Islam by centuries and are, in fact, un-Islamic. They have more to do with the tribal mentality and culture than with faith.
Thank you for that comment Ms. Sheeley. I hate to see all Muslims lumped together myself.

May I also say I have seen your work all over the web, very powerful. 👍
 
There have been several high profile honor killings right here in the US, of course our news media isn’t reporting it as such because they don’t want to upset the Muslims but they are definitely honor killings. There was the story of the Muslim girl who was strangled by her father for not wearing her hajib:

cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/12/canada.headscarf.ap/index.html

Then there was the set of twins who were shot to death by thier father for having boyfriends.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323265,00.html

You don’t have to go to Africa to find honor killings, they are right here in the United States, and here for good.
 
Actually, the Qur’an doesn’t even mention dishonor killings.

In fact, they are believed to have their origins in misinterpretations of pre-Islamic Arab tribal codes. They pre-date Islam by centuries and are, in fact, un-Islamic. They have more to do with the tribal mentality and culture than with faith.
If honor killings are un islamic why do the most radically Islamic countries with sharia law and ruled by the most scrupulous of Islamic rulers officially overlook the act of killing a daughter or wife who does not follow Islamic Law? The issue that the Koran does not specifically mention “honor killing” would be like saying that the Bible does not mention the Trinity. It doesn’t mention the Trinity but the Trinity is still key to Christian reality nevertheless.
Honor killing is an accepted practise in Islamic countries which follow Islamic law and nothing un Islamic is allowed. If it’s origins predate the Koran it still does not make the practise un Islamic.
 
ERS

I mean no disrespect, especially since your authorship has been revealed but I don’t understand how you can attempt to disassociate certain violent acts by Muslim men against women and claim that it is un Islamic. I don’t want to ping pong with Koranic texts and I will say from the get go that I am not a Koranic scholar but do you need to be to observe actual acts?
Women have very few rights compared to men under Islamic law.
Women can be punished severely for the crime (?) of being a rape victim. Is this also un Islamic and not specifically mentioned in the Koran? When a woman is stoned to death as a punishment for adultry in an Islamic country, is this also un Islamic?
Perhaps I am just fed up with political correctness and well meaning people attempting to defend the indefensible. My heart bleeds for people in other countries who are oppressed by this theocracy that treats women and even men as slaves but it is their country and their right to live as they wish there, but it infuriates me when it comes to our shores. I don’t think Americans want to deal with this type of mentality.🤷
 
welcome to our little site, Ms. Sheeley.

These honor killings really trouble me. I wonder how our courts will see them once these people claim “freedom of religion.” With some of the people on the courts in parts of this country, I am worried.
 
There have been several high profile honor killings right here in the US, of course our news media isn’t reporting it as such because they don’t want to upset the Muslims but they are definitely honor killings.
I’m surprised that the media, which you claim is controlled by Jews, would have a problem reporting these incidents. Doesn’t make sense.
 
Perhaps I am just fed up with political correctness and well meaning people attempting to defend the indefensible. My heart bleeds for people in other countries who are oppressed by this theocracy that treats women and even men as slaves but it is their country and their right to live as they wish there, but it infuriates me when it comes to our shores. I don’t think Americans want to deal with this type of mentality.🤷
I am not being politically correct when I say that dishonor killings pre-date Islam and are un-Islamic. I have been working on this problem for years, taking risks most people aren’t willing to take, and I am wa-a-a-a-ay past the stage where political correctness is going to keep me from saying what I know for sure. But I am not going to bang on Islam where Islam is not really to blame, just because it is popuIar in some quarters. I am for basic, universal human rights, and I have dedicated huge chunks of my life and personal assets to defending them. I have also dedicated huge chunks of my life to trying to educate people about these crimes, because there is so much misinformation out there, and that just isn’t helping anything.

Where it gets murky for a lot of people is that, of the U.N.-estimated 5,000 dishonor killings per annum globally, it is definitely the case that the majority occur in Arab/Muslim countries and in Arab/Muslim immigrant communities elsewhere. This is just an empirical reality. But it has more to do with culture and the tribal mentality than with faith. And it isn’t helped by the fact that, in some of these cultures, there seems to be a prevailing tendency not to speak up about that which is wrong. Maybe it’s because there tends to be no freedom of speech in those countries. . .one can be fined and imprisoned for saying anything against the ruling families or the government, for example. And speaking out against laws that favor perpetrators in these crimes can be perceived by the people in power as criticizing the regime and, thus, penalizable.

As for the laws of the countries where these crimes tend to be concentrated, they tend to be a mixture of tribal law, Shari’a law, and laws taken from the previous occupiers (in the Levant, this would largely be the British, the French, and the Ottomans). They aren’t comprised 100% of Islamic/Shari’a law. . .that is just one component.

I agree with you that most Americans probably don’t want to deal with this mentality. And, personally, I don’t think we should tolerate it in some misguided notion of being open and tolerant. So far, it seems to me, the Canadians and the Europeans have been doing a lot more hand-wringing about the dishonor killings that have occurred on their soil. The killer of Aqsa Parvez in Canada, for example, is being tried for second-degree murder, not first (maybe there are good reasons, but I haven’t heard them). Basic, universal human rights should trump political correctness, and we are a nation that values human life and individual freedoms. We should uphold them in all cases and not let this cancer eat away at us on our land without speaking out against these crimes and seeing that the killers are tried as any others would be.

Dismounting my high horse now. 😊
 
I’m surprised that the media, which you claim is controlled by Jews, would have a problem reporting these incidents. Doesn’t make sense.
Yes, it does. Most people who speak out against these crimes get all kinds of threats. . .and worse. :eek:
 
Yes, it does. Most people who speak out against these crimes get all kinds of threats. . .and worse. :eek:
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Who would give a death threat if ESPN fired her?
 
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