honor of women in islam

[R_not]

**Jesus did the right thing. All there were sinners. Jesus did not say that the lady should not be stoned to death. He sanctioned the death penulty. But he gave an advice too which was much needed and useful. That the first stone should be thrown at that woman by a one who had never been a fornicator or adulterer

That was the end of that story. Jesus permitted the stoning as per law. But your story R_not does not hold. You think that Jesus did not allow stoning to death. He was a perfect Jew and wanted all to follow the law of Moses. He said that he had come to fulfil the law. That means he wanted that law be applied in its true form.It should not be abondoned.
But you people have abondoned what Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. So, you are now only using the name of Jesus for some purpose. You are not the followers of Jesus.**

Oh, and one more thing about your comment as to what Jesus wanted - His words are ‘Love God, love your neighbor as yourself’. No words to keep on the stonings, no words to beat up your women, no words to enslave, nothing like that. Nope, not one.

The stonings in the bible tell us of what happened at that time - never was it commanded for us to keep following them. And the Jews and Christians both stopped them millenia ago.

 

[pismopal]

**Jesus did the right thing. All there were sinners. Jesus did not say that the lady should not be stoned to death. He sanctioned the death penulty. But he gave an advice too which was much needed and useful. That the first stone should be thrown at that woman by a one who had never been a fornicator or adulterer

That was the end of that story. Jesus permitted the stoning as per law. But your story R_not does not hold. You think that Jesus did not allow stoning to death. He was a perfect Jew and wanted all to follow the law of Moses. He said that he had come to fulfil the law. That means he wanted that law be applied in its true form.It should not be abondoned.
But you people have abondoned what Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. So, you are now only using the name of Jesus for some purpose. You are not the followers of Jesus.**

We have known the articles of Christian faith for centuries but now we have muslims re-inventing the faith for us…on our own forum yet.

 

[R_not]

We have known the articles of Christian faith for centuries but now we have muslims re-inventing the faith for us…on our own forum yet.

It is what they are known for. They rewrite their own history and I suppose that will make it easier for them to deny things. I don’t know if Stalin learned from them when he said, ‘say a lie often enough and it becomes the truth’ since the muslims were doing this well before Stalin was born.

They have rewritten the Crusades and gee, our own left wingers take it as the truth. They do not honor peace treaties (because of hudna) and then blame their victims as the problem when it is themselves that is the problem.

I could go on - the history of islam is such an atrocious history. I guess I like gross things or else I wouldn’t have studied it so much since 9/11.

 

[ToddM]

This is NOT the same thing though. The narrative in Genesis implies neither that Adam was deceptive nor that he wanted the whole human race to fall with him and sinned deliberately to our detriment.

“ " Not the same thing as what? The original point that I was responding too was, basically 'Islam treats women so super, Christianity vilifies them.”

So, what is your point, and how does mine not address the previous?

 

[Booklover]

Jesus did the right thing. All there were sinners. Jesus did not say that the lady should not be stoned to death. He sanctioned the death penulty. But he gave an advice too which was much needed and useful. That the first stone should be thrown at that woman by a one who had never been a fornicator or adultere]

As usual, you’re wrong! He said nothing of the sort.

John 8 6-10

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her:** Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?**
11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. 12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13 The Pharisees therefore said to him: Thou givest testimony of thyself: thy testimony is not true. 14 Jesus answered, and said to them: Although I give testimony of myself, my testimony is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go: but you know not whence I come, or whither I go. 15 You judge according to the flesh: I judge not any man.

**

That was the end of that story. Jesus permitted the stoning as per law. But your story R_not does not hold. You think that Jesus did not allow stoning to death. He was a perfect Jew and wanted all to follow the law of Moses. He said that he had come to fulfil the law. That means he wanted that law be applied in its true form.It should not be abondoned.

**

He did not abandon the law as you claim, he perfected it and interpreted as it should be.

But you people have abondoned what Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. So, you are now only using the name of Jesus for some purpose. You are not the followers of Jesus.

Again, you’re wrong! Check out all of

16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. 17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 **For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. **

17 **"*****To fulfill"… By accomplishing all the figures and prophecies; and perfecting all that was imperfect. ***

Vickie

 

[ToddM]

**Jesus did the right thing. All there were sinners. Jesus did not say that the lady should not be stoned to death. He sanctioned the death penulty. But he gave an advice too which was much needed and useful. That the first stone should be thrown at that woman by a one who had never been a fornicator or adulterer

That was the end of that story. Jesus permitted the stoning as per law. But your story R_not does not hold. You think that Jesus did not allow stoning to death. He was a perfect Jew and wanted all to follow the law of Moses. He said that he had come to fulfil the law. That means he wanted that law be applied in its true form.It should not be abondoned.
But you people have abondoned what Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. So, you are now only using the name of Jesus for some purpose. You are not the followers of Jesus.**

One last back up, then I’m ejecting. Who has the agenda here?
If the law were perfectly followed at this point, then the only person
who would have been left would have been Christ, as bashing our own brains out is a sin, and who would stone to death the stoners?

The end of humanity would have been one huge monty python skit.

Perfect conformity to the law. Grats.

Who was it who said they wanted mercy?

Peace, bye. Nice ‘knowing’ most of you.

 

[Lapell]

here in my town a girl has been killed by her own father&brothers because the girl has fallen in love with a man&wanted to marry him.when her family members knew then they beat her to much then she had died.the girl’s father’s name is alimuddin(he is a hajji).he live 1 km far from my house.off course police came&then they gave police just 700$ and then the case dismissed!so in a muslim family the price of a girl’s life is just 700$.nice

morning_star777, was the man she wanted to marry a non-Muslim?

 

[Lapell]

**Jesus did the right thing. All there were sinners. Jesus did not say that the lady should not be stoned to death. He sanctioned the death penulty. But he gave an advice too which was much needed and useful. That the first stone should be thrown at that woman by a one who had never been a fornicator or adulterer

That was the end of that story. Jesus permitted the stoning as per law. But your story R_not does not hold. You think that Jesus did not allow stoning to death.**

Ahem!!.. planten, where in that narrative do you see that Jesus SPECIFICALLY meant “a fornicator or adulterer”? It’s not THAT specific, it’s more general:“The one among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.” Why do you restrict it to fornication and adultery? There are other grave sins beyond these, aren’t they?

 

[Lapell]

**
But you people have abondoned what Jesus had come to follow and fulfil. So, you are now only using the name of Jesus for some purpose. You are not the followers of Jesus.**

You are not Jesus’ follower either, you follow the Qor’an, not the Bible. Also, you changed words in the narrative in a way that modifies the meaning of what it says. You are not allowed to do that with a sacred book, my friend. And so i cannot accept your interpretation. You don’t follow the Jesus of the Gospel, so you have no authority to tell us what the proper way to follow Jesus is if you don’t refer to the text as it is written!

 

[Lapell]

planten, you have done plenty of things of this kind in the past. You are not interpreting the Gospel text properly! I don’t think it’s worthy of a real Muslim to do so. Don’t spread lies! Allah is not in favor of such a thing, O.K.?

 

[Lapell]

He did not abandon the law as you claim, he perfected it and interpreted as it should be.

Vickie

Hmm. Vickie, I don’t think planten said that Jesus abandoned the Law! But what he says certainly seems to twist the meaning of the text. “Better the mercy than sacrifices!” should he always have in mind when dealing with the Gospel texts. If he changes the meaning, or follows one who does change it, he contravenes the Commandment not to bear false testimony. This is a grave thing and he should take it more seriously if he really follows the One true God like he seems to believe. (From his point of view, I mean.)

 

[planten]

You are not my judge, nor jury even though ‘you people’ like to be the executioners.

I will say this - ‘you people’ follow a guy who enslaved, tortured, killed, stole, lied - perfectly and so very well. I have no disagreement there with you.

If moderate muslims is a truth, then why are these the facts: islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/05/its-only-fewthats-what-they-keep.html

**That is becoming abusive. It will not help you. You have your beliefs as a christian (probably a RCC). I have my beliefs as non-Catholic here. I know most of your weakness. But I do not go abusing and bashing Jesus like you are doing.

Do you want that I tell you that the birth of Jesus was illegal and that he always wanted to be called the king of the jews. He had extra desire to be called a king. And he could not show any miracle except one of the type of the prophet Jonas which he could not fulfil. There are such things in store for you too if you want to embark on those lines.

That is not the right way to discuss. If you have some argument then bring it. Otherwise your post is useless. But it is better that I do not attend to you. I do not believe that you are a true christian, follower of Jesus.

And I do not have time to visit any of the sites presented by you. I do not see them**.

 

[Lapell]

That is becoming abusive. It will not help you. You have your beliefs as a christian (probably a RCC). I have my beliefs as non-Catholic here. I know most of your weakness. But I do not go abusing and bashing Jesus like you are doing..

Bashing, I can see that you don’t, and I am grateful for it. But not abusing… not KNOWINGLY abusing Jesus, I could grant you that, too. Whether you do or don’t, however, I don’t think you have a sure way to know at the present time.

 

[Lapell]

Anyway, all this has been quite off-topic, I’m afraid… Salam!

 

[Lapell]

Has this topic been quite covered now? I don’t personally see what there would remain to be said about it that hadn’t been said… What do you think?

 

[morning_star777]

morning_star777, was the man she wanted to marry a non-Muslim?

no mr.lapell she wanted to marry a muslim man.but her father is a bigot muslim.&in islamic law its forbidden for a girl to mix with other man.&muslims from bigot family never think to marry a non muslim.because i told you most of muslim treat non muslim as profane.if non muslims want to marry muslim then non muslims have to convert to islam.

 

[R_not]

**That is becoming abusive. It will not help you. You have your beliefs as a christian (probably a RCC). I have my beliefs as non-Catholic here. I know most of your weakness. But I do not go abusing and bashing Jesus like you are doing.

Do you want that I tell you that the birth of Jesus was illegal and that he always wanted to be called the king of the jews. He had extra desire to be called a king. And he could not show any miracle except one of the type of the prophet Jonas which he could not fulfil. There are such things in store for you too if you want to embark on those lines.

That is not the right way to discuss. If you have some argument then bring it. Otherwise your post is useless. But it is better that I do not attend to you. I do not believe that you are a true christian, follower of Jesus.

And I do not have time to visit any of the sites presented by you. I do not see them**.

I am not surprised. As for abuse - you worry more about islam’s image rather than its adherents who use the koran to kill, maim, rape, torture, enslave, etc - you claim - distort it.

The right way to discuss islam with a muslim is to just accept your word that islam is peaceful and benign. Well, it is not. Its prophet was not peaceful nor benign, nor is its adherents.

With what muslims are doing now with what we are calling ‘political islam’ by working on building your numbers up, infiltrating, demanding we appease muslims, etc - the end is the same - that we either convert or subjugate and pay the jizya tax.

As for muslims reading anything I post - I don’t think that they read their own koran, their own hadiths, or anything about their own prophet because if they did, and if they are sooooo ‘moderate’, they wouldn’t follow such a guy as mohammed who was not a very nice guy at all - in fact he was quite the opposite.

I can not say it any better than Geert Wilders on what islam brings to countries.
sheikyermami.com/2008/06/05/full-transcript-of-geert-wilders-speech-in-the-danish-parliament/#more-8354

Italian writer Oriana Fallaci, said: **“A moderate Islam does not exist. It does not exist because there is no difference between Good Islam and Bad Islam. There is Islam and that it the end of it. Islam is the Koran, and nothing other than the Koran.“ **(Oriana Fallaci”The Force of Reason” post-script page 305 February 2006)]
Wise and true words.

 

[Angelos]

As usual, you’re wrong! He said nothing of the sort.

John 8 6-10

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her:** Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?**
11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. 12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13 The Pharisees therefore said to him: Thou givest testimony of thyself: thy testimony is not true. 14 Jesus answered, and said to them: Although I give testimony of myself, my testimony is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go: but you know not whence I come, or whither I go. 15 You judge according to the flesh: I judge not any man.

---

He did not abandon the law as you claim, he perfected it and interpreted as it should be.

Again, you’re wrong! Check out all of

16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. 17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

17 **"*****To fulfill"… By accomplishing all the figures and prophecies; and perfecting all that was imperfect. ***

Vickie

Very good response, but dear planten will not even read these responses and ponder over them! He appears on this forum from time to time only to pervert our Scripture through deliberate misinterpretations and slander our faith. Actually, he is walking in the footsteps of his messenger and his group of scribes, who delighted in distorting the Bible and fabricating their supposed revelation

 

[Angelos]

“ " Not the same thing as what? The original point that I was responding too was, basically 'Islam treats women so super, Christianity vilifies them.”

So, what is your point, and how does mine not address the previous?

Eh?
I think I cannot get your point.

Your analogy was concerned with Adam rather than with Eve. Besides, being sinful (from Adam to all) is not a personal characteristic confined to the members of a certain gender (in the Koran all women are considered deceptive because of potiphar’s wife).

 

[Angelos]

**
Do you want that I tell you that the birth of Jesus was illegal and that he always wanted to be called the king of the jews. He had extra desire to be called a king. And he could not show any miracle except one of the type of the prophet Jonas which he could not fulfil. There are such things in store for you too if you want to embark on those lines.

That is not the right way to discuss. If you have some argument then bring it. Otherwise your post is useless. But it is better that I do not attend to you. I do not believe that you are a true christian, follower of Jesus.
**.

Please tell us all those things that u hide in store!

The assertions you recurrently make about Jesus are based on your personal misinterpretation of certain Biblical verses. What’s next? Are you gonna set up your new religion and re-write the Bible?

I am sick of listening to broken records out of date.