honor of women in islam

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ralphinal said:
The Koran prohibits alcohol on earth, the Muslims ban it. It prohibits pork, it is banned. There are all kinds of rules and laws that the Koran has that the Muslims enforce.
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Muslim rulers especially enforce the part about respecting government… lol… why do you think that is?
Now, you say that the Koran has rules protecting Women.
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Yes.
Perhaps I will take your word about that, if you can explain this. Somehow, the **Muslim nations **ignore those laws. Why? Please explain. The Koran bans drugs, booze, pork, and other stuff, and that is followed, but when it teaches that Women are spiritually equal, should be treated well, are not punching bags, etc. that is ignored…
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Muslim countries, and Muslim governments, preserve themselves. They aren’t out to preserve Islam, merely to preserve their own power. That can mean suppressing large parts of the population. And that happens. They don’t enforce the religion (and maybe nobody should have to enforce religion anyway) but are solely concerned with maintaining power and control–simply, they do not fear God.

These rights for women are not ignored at the scholarly level, and not by people who really study the religion.

They are only ignored when culture (often backwards, misogynistic cultures) dominates and confounds religion, or when non-religious values take precedence–that is people more concerned with their own pleasure.

In Bahrain, for example, pornography and alcohol are ubiquitous, so when young Saudi men aren’t satisfied with the conservative restrictions in their country, they just drive across the bridge to get drunk and watch porn.

Why? They care more about this world than they do about God.

Their behavior is not about the religion, but far from it. “Muslim governments” are pretty much the same way–in it for themselves, not for the people.

But among people who understand Islam, who really have studied it and teach it (not farmer joe muslim who smokes on his way to the mosque and grabs a beer on the way home or muslim king so-and-so who prohibits certain topics like social justice to be preached at the mosque so the people don’t realize how corrupt he is), the real scholars will tell you about women’s rights. And women will too–since they find it beneficial to be informed on the topic as well. 👍

Just to give you an idea–Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is an excellent American scholar of Islam, with some videos on youtube about men and women in Islam.

Listen to the lecture on YouTube:

Part 1 - youtube.com/watch?v=snQZCJzRxw8

Part 2 - youtube.com/watch?v=FOI8wTc4O8I

Part 3 - youtube.com/watch?v=wp7PZqlDK6U

Part 4 - youtube.com/watch?v=dSQwzDkicTE

Part 5 - youtube.com/watch?v=ALdMOiVpQ0M

Part 6 - youtube.com/watch?v=fb7AF7qUN1A

Part 7 - youtube.com/watch?v=Xvf-a-el-Pk
 
AgnosTheist said:
Amy, please remember that this issue is about social gender equality, not physical equality. 🙂
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What’s the difference? Social roles are determined by physical traits.

I.e., the mother gives birth–she is the nurturer, comforter, and protector for the child. She is naturally prepared to do this. The father is the provider and protector for the family. And he is naturally prepared to do that.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Well I hope when you get married it’s a good match because you’re stuck with it!!:

tell me Amy, is it another “corruption” by corrupt men to teach against polygamy and divorce?

Yes in Islam divorce is a peace of cake, for the harshness of your hearts…marriage in Christianity is a sacrament…sacraments are not toys you throw the second day…in Islam it is no sacrament but a wordly contract where a mere word suffices to announce you a stranger since you can easily get another spouse…this is what makes it easy, because it is wordly…in Christianity, marriage is not sex…marriage is a union of 2 who lead each others to sainthood in heart and behavior…when a couple is striving for sainthood as a couple, there is no room for your “ifs” that mirror a wordly assessment of a marital relationship that Muhammad surely had while having sex with saall his wives in a single night…
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Sister_Amy said:
What’s the difference? Social roles are determined by physical traits.
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this is not about social roles either. its about social rights. can you please name some examples of social rights? i’d like to know if you understand what they are. 🙂
 
AgnosTheist said:
this is not about social roles either. its about social rights. can you please name some examples of social rights? i’d like to know if you understand what they are. 🙂
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Let’s just assume that I don’t understand and you give me some examples.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Muslim rulers especially enforce the part about respecting government… lol… why do you think that is?

Yes.

Muslim countries, and Muslim governments, preserve themselves. They aren’t out to preserve Islam, merely to preserve their own power. That can mean suppressing large parts of the population. And that happens. They don’t enforce the religion (and maybe nobody should have to enforce religion anyway) but are solely concerned with maintaining power and control–simply, they do not fear God.

These rights for women are not ignored at the scholarly level, and not by people who really study the religion.

They are only ignored when culture (often backwards, misogynistic cultures) dominates and confounds religion, or when non-religious values take precedence–that is people more concerned with their own pleasure.

In Bahrain, for example, pornography and alcohol are ubiquitous, so when young Saudi men aren’t satisfied with the conservative restrictions in their country, they just drive across the bridge to get drunk and watch porn.

Why? They care more about this world than they do about God.

Their behavior is not about the religion, but far from it. “Muslim governments” are pretty much the same way–in it for themselves, not for the people.

But among people who understand Islam, who really have studied it and teach it (not farmer joe muslim who smokes on his way to the mosque and grabs a beer on the way home or muslim king so-and-so who prohibits certain topics like social justice to be preached at the mosque so the people don’t realize how corrupt he is), the real scholars will tell you about women’s rights. And women will too–since they find it beneficial to be informed on the topic as well. 👍

Just to give you an idea–Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is an excellent American scholar of Islam, with some videos on youtube about men and women in Islam.

Listen to the lecture on YouTube:

Part 1 - youtube.com/watch?v=snQZCJzRxw8

Part 2 - youtube.com/watch?v=FOI8wTc4O8I

Part 3 - youtube.com/watch?v=wp7PZqlDK6U

Part 4 - youtube.com/watch?v=dSQwzDkicTE

Part 5 - youtube.com/watch?v=ALdMOiVpQ0M

Part 6 - youtube.com/watch?v=fb7AF7qUN1A

Part 7 - youtube.com/watch?v=Xvf-a-el-Pk
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Thank you for this thorough responce. If I may ask one simple question, then.

Why do Muslims point to Christian nations as bad or not respecting women when they are COMMANDED to do so and ignore it? I know, there is a difference between the rank and file Muslim and the Governments, but it is not governments that are performing honor killings. See, this is simple hypocracy. They are running on a double standard.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Let’s just assume that I don’t understand and you give me some examples.
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for one, its basic human rights. did you know that the association of muslim countries reject this. and instead they made their own cairo version of islamic rights. which does allow for certain discriminations of gender & religion.
 
ralphinal said:
Thank you for this thorough responce. If I may ask one simple question, then.

Why do Muslims point to Christian nations as bad or not respecting women when they are COMMANDED to do so and ignore it? I know, there is a difference between the rank and file Muslim and the Governments, but it is not governments that are performing honor killings. See, this is simple hypocracy. They are running on a double standard.
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The word is spelled hypocrisy actually–and that’s EXACTLY what it is.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Let’s just assume that I don’t understand and you give me some examples.
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for one, the right to be free from marital abuse & violence. whether you are the husband or the wife, you dont deserve domestic violence. not for any reason.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The word is spelled hypocrisy actually–and that’s EXACTLY what it is.
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Thanks for correcting the spelling, and seeing the problem… Tell me, how can it be fixed, or can it? Other than by God Himself…
 
ralphinal said:
Thanks for correcting the spelling, and seeing the problem… Tell me, how can it be fixed, or can it? Other than by God Himself…
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I don’t know. 🤷

Creating a more religiously-aware society might help, but if people don’t care, what difference would it make?

You see, Muslims living in the Middle East/Central Asia/North Africa tend to view the West (Europe/Americas/Australia), especially the USA as being “Christians.” And Westerners, typically view the ME/CA/NA as being “Muslims.” We really tend to view them as being staunch practitioners of the religion as well which isn’t exactly a fair or accurate representation.

But just like most “Christians” certainly don’t uphold all tenets of their faith, neither do most “Muslims.”

And there’s definitely more materialism I think than actually God-consciousness.
 
inJESUS said:
if a man can beat his wife for x or y reason, does a wife have the same right? can she abstain from sex as well to punish him?
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He can take another wife… what good would it do for her to abstain from sex with him? :confused:

And who said a man can beat his wife for x or y reason?
 
Sister_Amy said:
I don’t know. 🤷

Creating a more religiously-aware society might help, but if people don’t care, what difference would it make?
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Amazing insight for a woman 😃 😛
You see, Muslims living in the Middle East/Central Asia/North Africa tend to view the West (Europe/Americas/Australia), especially the USA as being “Christians.” And Westerners, typically view the ME/CA/NA as being “Muslims.” We really tend to view them as being staunch practitioners of the religion as well which isn’t exactly a fair or accurate representation.
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True, but having religious theocracies or government mandated religions does lend itself to the thought that they are all in agreement. Perhaps it would help if they backed off the rhetoric a little and allowed Christians to freely teach and worship.
But just like most “Christians” certainly don’t uphold all tenets of their faith, neither do most “Muslims.”
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And there’s definitely more materialism I think than actually God-consciousness.
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Possible. The funny part of it to me is that some Muslims themselves try to pass off the myth that they are more devout. They help foster the stereotype.
 
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