Honor thy Mother and Father?

[ChristianChild2]

Hello ,

I have a bit of a dilemma. I’m married with two children. My husband and I are both Catholic and raise our children in the Catholic faith. We try to instill within them morals and virtues. We try to teach them right from wrong according to Gods not to society’s standards.

My parents are not like me, and I feel sad to say don’t choose to live their lives in a moral way. My parents are divorced from one another, and both are currently living with their boy/girl friends outside of marriage.

They both have continuously have tried to bring their mates around us and our children. My husband and I do not want our kids growing up thinking we condone such behavior nor do we want them to see their grandparents living in sin. We however don’t want to shun them or create a rift between us and them. So far we have not allowed them to bring their mates around us.

Our eldest child does know that her grandparents shack up with their girl/boy friend. She knows why we don’t welcome their mates in our home/lives. My parents come by and visit alone without their mates at the present time.

My mother has had many boyfriends living with her throughout the years. Each time she thinks its appropriate to try to include them in family get together. I continually tell her that I don’t want to meet her mates unless they have serious intentions and plan to get married to one another. We don’t want our kids going through all their dating cycles.

My father has not dated quite as much and this is his first time he is living with one of his girl friends. He says he plans to marry her and is making payments on a ring.

My eldest daughter has a birthday party coming up next week. My father has asked if he can bring his girlfriend. What is the right thing to do?

Should we allow him to bring his girlfriend around us and our children? We don’t condone his behavior, and are afraid we will be sending a mix message to our children. However if he is going to marry this woman, apart of us (husband and I) thinks we should get to know and meet her.

Should we hold off on meeting her and allowing her around our children until after the marriage? To make sure they are serious about their commitment?

Please help us and give us some advice to guide us. What is the moral thing to do? Honor thy parents and be welcoming to all people without judgement OR Stand by our Morals and Values and continue to set standards of who comes around our children?

Thank You

 

[The_Chicken]

I think that you are being just a bit too paranoid…let your children live in the real world and see things how they are…they will know what is good and what is not if they have strong education at home…that is the most important…not what they see once a month or a week or whatever.

 

[Jeanette_L]

This must be extremely difficult and hearbreaking for you.

I think that if I were in your shoes, (and I’m not), I would welcome my parents with respect, but ask them not to discuss their living arrangements with the children, knowing how you feel and how you have decided to raise your children.

I would also make it a point to discuss this with your children when you feel they are at an appropriate age to understand, and let them know that although what your parents are doing is wrong in the eyes of God, that you all are to show them honor and respect, because that is what God has required from you, and that you will continue to pray for them and will withhold judgement, as God has also required.

I think your children will learn a valuable lesson through your example, about obedience and love and even mercy. And I think when they are older, they will be more inclined to always treat you with the honor and respect due to parents, because they were taught well!

 

[whatevergirl]

Sleeping over is one thing…I can see not wishing to do that, but going out for a meal with your parents’ partners isn’t teaching or condoning the behavior to your children. I am sorry you’re in such a pickle, though…I too have a sibling who is doing this, and wants my husband, kids and me to spend the night…it’s like…why? lol

Anyways…I would honor them by visiting…but not staying the night. Maybe not even visiting…but meeting in neutral places. (and perhaps use these occurences as lessons for your kids…teaching them, etc…)

Just my thoughts.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Sleeping over is one thing…I can see not wishing to do that, but going out for a meal with your parents’ partners isn’t teaching or condoning the behavior to your children. I am sorry you’re in such a pickle, though…I too have a sibling who is doing this, and wants my husband, kids and me to spend the night…it’s like…why? lol

Anyways…I would honor them by visiting…but not staying the night. Maybe not even visiting…but meeting in neutral places. (and perhaps use these occurences as lessons for your kids…teaching them, etc…)

Just my thoughts.

That is about my approach to a similar problem.

 

[rpp]

First let me say that I do not envy you in this situation. I am sure this is a source of ongoing pain and disappointment. I also admire your desire to teach your children the right thing. My prayers are with you for peace and wisdom.

It sounds like you have explained your moral objections to your parents. That is certainly the right thing to do.

Shacking-up is awful and terrible thing. No different than homosexual activity. While we cannot judge people, we can judge their actions and the likely influence on our children.

The grandparents should be welcome to your place. The spouses of your grandparents should be welcome too. If it were up to me, their co-habitating girl and boy friends, in this situation, would not be welcome. Children visiting their grandparents who are publicly committing grave sin would not be appropriate either.

The motivation is to preserve your children from immoral influences, not to exclude your grandparents. Additionally, keeping the “partners” away actually helps preserve the good name of the grandparents with your children. Imaging what your children would think if they knew their grandparents were public sinners!

Divorce really messes things up. This sad and painful situation is more proof that the Church’s teaching on marriage and divorce is right on target.

 

[leonie]

I haven’t had this situation with my parents or inlaws, but I have with my siblings. My policy is visits in our home are fine, but not in their homes. And, of course, no overnight visits anywhere.

And, I’ve gently reproached them for their situation and made it clear that my kids would not be in their homes while this situation existed.

Of course, they could care less if my kids visit, so it hasn’t been a big deal between us. They did get pretty nasty with me when I suggested they should not be living together without being married. But, they forgot it pretty quick.

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

my parents are separated too, and Im only 13 .I wouldn’t allow them to get new partners.I’d probably run away if they did.Anyway, adults are meant to have sense, your parents obviously don’t.I think you shouldn’t allow them to come because they are being stupid and sinful an its best if your children aren’t exposed to that.

 

[rpp]

my parents are separated too, and Im only 13 .I wouldn’t allow them to get new partners.I’d probably run away if they did.Anyway, adults are meant to have sense, your parents obviously don’t.I think you shouldn’t allow them to come because they are being stupid and sinful an its best if your children aren’t exposed to that.

Teeliumtrozzle, I understand your frustration, and I am sorry about your parents, but please do not run-away. That is a very bad thing to do.

If you ever feel such an urge, talk to your priest or youth minister right away! Please!

We can all pray for our families.

May God grant you peace.

 

[ChristianChild2]

Thank You Everyone for your advise. It has helped us.

 

[otjm]

Hello ,

I have a bit of a dilemma. I’m married with two children. My husband and I are both Catholic and raise our children in the Catholic faith. We try to instill within them morals and virtues. We try to teach them right from wrong according to Gods not to society’s standards.

My parents are not like me, and I feel sad to say don’t choose to live their lives in a moral way. My parents are divorced from one another, and both are currently living with their boy/girl friends outside of marriage.

They both have continuously have tried to bring their mates around us and our children. My husband and I do not want our kids growing up thinking we condone such behavior nor do we want them to see their grandparents living in sin. We however don’t want to shun them or create a rift between us and them. So far we have not allowed them to bring their mates around us.

Our eldest child does know that her grandparents shack up with their girl/boy friend. She knows why we don’t welcome their mates in our home/lives. My parents come by and visit alone without their mates at the present time.

My mother has had many boyfriends living with her throughout the years. Each time she thinks its appropriate to try to include them in family get together. I continually tell her that I don’t want to meet her mates unless they have serious intentions and plan to get married to one another. We don’t want our kids going through all their dating cycles.

My father has not dated quite as much and this is his first time he is living with one of his girl friends. He says he plans to marry her and is making payments on a ring.

My eldest daughter has a birthday party coming up next week. My father has asked if he can bring his girlfriend. What is the right thing to do?

Should we allow him to bring his girlfriend around us and our children? We don’t condone his behavior, and are afraid we will be sending a mix message to our children. However if he is going to marry this woman, apart of us (husband and I) thinks we should get to know and meet her.

Should we hold off on meeting her and allowing her around our children until after the marriage? To make sure they are serious about their commitment?

Please help us and give us some advice to guide us. What is the moral thing to do? Honor thy parents and be welcoming to all people without judgement OR Stand by our Morals and Values and continue to set standards of who comes around our children?

Thank You

I guess I have a question, a bit late: since your children I would presume know they have grandparents, and the oldest one knows that they are shacking up with their SO, what is the difference between not seeing a grandparent, seeing the grand parent but not the SO, or seeing both the grandparent and the SO at a public setting or at your house (Iam presuming we would all agree that them staying overnight at your house is out)?

I knew 3 of my 4 grand parents, and the maternal ones for a long time. The maternal ones were married to each other, but there were other issues. I knew them, knew some of their faults, and loved them. Whatever bone(s) my parents had with them were not mine.

I guess what I am getting at is that they are your children’s grandparents; and I seriously doubt that your children are unfamiliar with parents shacking up with an SO if they are even half-way through grade school (unless you homeschool), and if they are that old, probably they all have figured out what the grandparents are doing. Do the children have an opportunity to have a relationship with their grandparents in spite of the sinfulness the grandparents exhibit?

And do you really think any child raised with good morals is going to fall apart at the seams because a grandparent - or a parent for that matter - exhibits some form of sinfulness?

That seems to be the bottom question. In short, unless you homeschool, do not allow your children to interact with any other children unless you have personally passed on their extended homelife, and prohibit all forms of media with the possible exception of books you choose, the kids are going to be exposed to jsut about every sin imaginable as that is what is going on in society. I don’t doubt your desire to raise them properly and with good morals. But do you really think keeping them from the grandparents makes a whit of difference, especially since at least one of them knows the “why”? That should anwer the question for you.

 

[ChristianChild2]

You may have misunderstood my above text. My children do see their grandparents and have a close relationship with them. My children get to on outings with them, they come over to my house and we see them at all of our family events. They have even spent the night in our home (without their mates of course). The only current restriction is that they are not aloud to bring around their mates.

I don’t think that my children will fall apart from knowing their grandparents live in Sin. However knowing something and having to be apart of that life style are two completely different things.

My children will be exposed to the worlds sins and corruption’s. However they will not have to live it within their immediate family life.

It is very sad as to how much kids are exposed to. It is also very sad as to how lax people have become on what is acceptable behavior. No one would seem to blink an eye if a parent doesn’t want someone shooting up heroine in front of their kids. However people seem to “freak” out when you set limits and rules on cursing in front of kids and or allowing immoral behavior such as shacking up be apart of your kids normal day life. To me, both are equally wrong and dangerous.

What decisions I make for my children DOES make a whit of difference. DUH! That is what parenting is all about. Hummm if it didn’t matter then all children would turn out to be the same type of adults. What decisions I make on behalf of my child directly influence their lives. So even if the world is full of sin, it doesn’t mean WE parents should throw in the towel and let any type of people be close to our children and potentially have an impact on them. This is where good parenting, prayer, and common sense come into play.

 

[Gardening_Mommy]

I am going to have to disagree with those who have argued in this thread, “Go ahead, they’ve heard about shacking up elsewhere, they’ve probably figured it out already, etc.”

There is a huge difference between someone else behaving this way and your grandparents behaving this way. Just because we know these sins are condoned and common in society does not mean we have to condone them within our families. Just because your kids know these sins are condoned and common in society does not mean that there will be no effect on their thinking by being frequently exposed to someone they love, respect, and are close to doing these sins.

By clearly stating your objections to your co-habiting parents and then setting boundaries for their interactions with your children, you are performing your job as a parent. To do less would be the same as telling your children, “Go ahead and sin this way; I might get upset, I might say something, but there won’t be any real consequenses.”

 

[Jeanette_L]

I am going to have to disagree with those who have argued in this thread, “Go ahead, they’ve heard about shacking up elsewhere, they’ve probably figured it out already, etc.”

There is a huge difference between someone else behaving this way and your grandparents behaving this way. Just because we know these sins are condoned and common in society does not mean we have to condone them within our families. Just because your kids know these sins are condoned and common in society does not mean that there will be no effect on their thinking by being frequently exposed to someone they love, respect, and are close to doing these sins.

By clearly stating your objections to your co-habiting parents and then setting boundaries for their interactions with your children, you are performing your job as a parent. To do less would be the same as telling your children, “Go ahead and sin this way; I might get upset, I might say something, but there won’t be any real consequences.”

But aren’t we supposed to be teaching our children about the bigger picture? That the consequences that are more horrendous are the eternal ones, and that there are a lot of sins, and even more so, the hidden ones, that will have grave effect on our souls. I think that to single out the sin of adultery as the sin that has the gravest consequence, is setting the children up for a possible false view of how God sees all our sins, and that his Grace to reach us and change us is limited. It kind of reminds me of the woman caught in adultery and brought before Jesus to be stoned. There is a trap in this kind of thinking, and it’s not the obvious sinner, the woman, who ends up ensnared. I’m thinking very slippery slope here.

And yes, I know that Christ told this adulteress to go and sin no more. But that was AFTER her accusers were humiliated by their own hypocrisy and had left her alone with Christ. He did not condemn her, and his point was that neither should anyone else have done so. It was a very clear statement.

I’m not saying you throw your hands up and not teach children God’s commandments and right from wrong, how we are to live our lives before God. But there is more to be taught than dividing up sins in categories and shunning those who happen to be caught up in the obvious sins. And let’s be honest, the sleepover situation is not happening, so we are not talking about the grandparents actually performing the act of adultery in their presence.

I think the greater lesson would be to teach the children to love their grandparents so much, that they are willing to sacrifice time in prayer to help their grandparents come to a place of repentance, and all this without trying to disgrace and dishonor the grandparents in the process. Let God be the one to use whatever avenue He feels necessary to bring the grandparents to the repentant state, after all, He is much more capable.

 

[rpp]

But aren’t we supposed to be teaching our children about the bigger picture? That the consequences that are more horrendous are the eternal ones, and that there are a lot of sins, and even more so, the hidden ones, that will have grave effect on our souls. I think that to single out the sin of adultery as the sin that has the gravest consequence, is setting the children up for a possible false view of how God sees all our sins, and that his Grace to reach us and change us is limited. It kind of reminds me of the woman caught in adultery and brought before Jesus to be stoned. There is a trap in this kind of thinking, and it’s not the obvious sinner, the woman, who ends up ensnared. I’m thinking very slippery slope here.

And yes, I know that Christ told this adulteress to go and sin no more. But that was AFTER her accusers were humiliated by their own hypocrisy and had left her alone with Christ. He did not condemn her, and his point was that neither should anyone else have done so. It was a very clear statement.

I’m not saying you throw your hands up and not teach children God’s commandments and right from wrong, how we are to live our lives before God. But there is more to be taught than dividing up sins in categories and shunning those who happen to be caught up in the obvious sins. And let’s be honest, the sleepover situation is not happening, so we are not talking about the grandparents actually performing the act of adultery in their presence.

I think the greater lesson would be to teach the children to love their grandparents so much, that they are willing to sacrifice time in prayer to help their grandparents come to a place of repentance, and all this without trying to disgrace and dishonor the grandparents in the process. Let God be the one to use whatever avenue He feels necessary to bring the grandparents to the repentant state, after all, He is much more capable.

I feel that what you have posted is wrong in so many places it is hard to address.

First and foremost, no one whould ever sacrifice time in prayer! Not for anything! There is nothing more important than time spent with the Lord. If you have to give up your time with God, you are giving up God.

Secondly, no one has claimed that adultery and fornication are the gravest sins. But they are grave nevertheless. And what you are proposing will only teach children to accept sinful behavior without consequence. That is wrong.

I am too annoyed by the other things you wrote and the smugness of your tone to say anything further

 

[LittleMother]

Without reading all of the pps (sorry, I didn’t have time.) I believe it is our job to shelter our children while they are youg. Until they have a firm grasp of what’s right & wrong. They’ll see plenty of the “real world” when they’re older.

That being said, I think would allow them to come with the condition that they be introduced as a “friend” & act strictly as friends. No hand holding, no sitting too close, etc. As for after marriage, unless my parents original marriage was deemed invalid the situation would not change after they were “married” to their “friend.”

 

[Jeanette_L]

I feel that what you have posted is wrong in so many places it is hard to address.

First and foremost, no one whould ever sacrifice time in prayer! Not for anything! There is nothing more important than time spent with the Lord. If you have to give up your time with God, you are giving up God.

Secondly, no one has claimed that adultery and fornication are the gravest sins. But they are grave nevertheless. And what you are proposing will only teach children to accept sinful behavior without consequence. That is wrong.

I am too annoyed by the other things you wrote and the smugness of your tone to say anything further

I’m very sorry; I must have phrased a few things inappropriately. When I said “sacrifice time in prayer”, I meant to make the sacrifice of time to pray. That was my bad and I apologize.

And I didn’t mean to say that we are to teach our children to accept sinful behavior, just not to judge or punish, that’s not our place, only Christ’s. I’m not talking about parents punishing their children for disobedience, I’m talking about using emotional and physical punishment, etc., towards others because of sin in their lives.

I’m just trying to ask people to think about the repercussions long term in the way we teach children to treat people whose sin is obvious as opposed to those whose sins are not as obvious or seemingly horrific. For example, would you use the same advice if the grandparents were having a problem with overeating, the sin of gluttony? Or if the grandparents had an obvious problem with pride or boasting?

I’m only bringing up this side of the equation because I was raised in a similar manner that certain sins were more frowned upon and people were more ostracized for them than others. It created an atmosphere that became more unChristian than Christian in the long run. And the intentions were good, the method and delivery and outcome were not.

And I’m sorry you feel I am being smug, it’s not my heart. It’s difficult for me to convey in writing my tone, it’s something in which I’m not very good. I just have a soft heart towards people who have been shut out because of their weaknesses, especially by family. The hurt can take years to heal and it can delay their turning from sin towards God, they have little understanding of Grace.

Again, I apologize for upsetting you.

 

[otjm]

You may have misunderstood my above text. My children do see their grandparents and have a close relationship with them. My children get to on outings with them, they come over to my house and we see them at all of our family events. They have even spent the night in our home (without their mates of course). The only current restriction is that they are not aloud to bring around their mates.

That was not apparent to me as I read your post; perhaps I did not read carefully enough.

I don’t think that my children will fall apart from knowing their grandparents live in Sin. However knowing something and having to be apart of that life style are two completely different things.

Perhaps this is where we disagree to some extent. I am not so sure that the grandparents having their SO around when they visit your house is going to affect the children in the way you seem to think it will. To begin with, the first and most important model to children’s behavior is their immediate parents, not their grandparents, or aunts and uncles, or next door neighbors, or even older siblings. Secondly, at least one child is well aware of the issue. I simply do not see the presence or absence of the SO making much if any impact; and if the child does meet that person and the response i something to the line of "Well, I think they are neat and I don’t see why you don’t let them come around (or, “why you make such a big deal of it”), then you have additional teaching moments. Givne how life generally flows, the likelyhood is that they will meet the SOs; it can either be on your terms, or not on your terms. I am simply not convinced that actully seeing them is going to convey any message that you seem to think it will convey.

My children will be exposed to the worlds sins and corruption’s. However they will not have to live it within their immediate family life.

I would agree, if you were all living in immediate proximity; in the same house or next door. It seemed to me that you were talking about the grandparents visiting and having the SO with them. Seems to be a bit different than “immediate family life”.

No one would seem to blink an eye if a parent doesn’t want someone shooting up heroine in front of their kids. However people seem to “freak” out when you set limits and rules on cursing in front of kids and or allowing immoral behavior such as shacking up be apart of your kids normal day life. To me, both are equally wrong and dangerous.

I agree that there is way more immoral behavior in general that kids see. I don’t “freak out” about limits. My kids had limits. I also had a similar situation with my ex father-in-law after my wife became an ex. My kids havn’g shacked up, and they are 25. I also used it as a teaching point.

What decisions I make for my children DOES make a whit of difference. DUH! That is what parenting is all about. Hummm if it didn’t matter then all children would turn out to be the same type of adults. What decisions I make on behalf of my child directly influence their lives. So even if the world is full of sin, it doesn’t mean WE parents should throw in the towel and let any type of people be close to our children and potentially have an impact on them. This is where good parenting, prayer, and common sense come into play.

This seems to be a bit of an over-reaction; I don’t recall suggesting you throw in the towel, or let any type of people have an impact on the kids. some of the decisions you make directly influence the lives of your children; some don’t. I ahve had worse decisions to have to deal with, ones that I would have done anything I could to have prevented my children from observing. I found that I had absolutely no control over the situation. The children survived, and with a very hard lesson. It was, however, a lesson that came closer to home than some “book learning”; it was real, down and dirty real life. They not only survivied it, they learned a valuable moral lesson from it.

Don’t misuderstand me; I am all for a better, cleaner, holier world than the one we live in. Don’t even get me started about the slutty covers of the women’s magazines on display every month in the grocery checkout stands. My approach was to talk to my daughters about the why of modesty. They learned, and they don’t dress like high priced hookers, modeling the latest fashion magazine. My approach was to take it head on. Your approac seems to be to shield; I am not saying it is wrong; but that maybe there are other approaches that will achieve the same results, and that perhaps the shielding is not truly shielding them from the truth. Kids are so often so much more knowledgeable than we give them credit for.

 

[Gardening_Mommy]

In reply to Jeanette L, part of the problem here is that there IS a difference between sins. Chubby or boasting grandparents don’t bother me nearly as much as fornicating grandparents! The original poster was very clear that the children see their grandparents frequently, just not with the significant-other-of-the-month. She is exercising her parental duties and rights, not punishing the grandparents for their immature behavior.

Our society has made obesity a worse sin than cohabitation. We, as Christians, can’t blur those lines and say “well, everyone sins, so the specific sins don’t matter.” Our children will pick up what we say and do on these matters, and, yes, they need to be shielded from some of the worst examples, especially in their immediate family, while they are young.

Quick example of misguided all-sin-is-equal thinking. A good friend of mine was stuck listening to an argument between her sister (pregnant from a one-night stand) and her mom.
Mom: “What the heck were you thinking?!? Why didn’t you at least use a condom or something?”
Daughter: “MOM! I’m Catholic, we don’t believe in birth control!”
Mom: “WE DON’T BELIEVE IN PREMARITAL SEX, EITHER!”

 

[Jeanette_L]

In reply to Jeanette L, part of the problem here is that there IS a difference between sins. Chubby or boasting grandparents don’t bother me nearly as much as fornicating grandparents! The original poster was very clear that the children see their grandparents frequently, just not with the significant-other-of-the-month. She is exercising her parental duties and rights, not punishing the grandparents for their immature behavior.

Our society has made obesity a worse sin than cohabitation. We, as Christians, can’t blur those lines and say “well, everyone sins, so the specific sins don’t matter.” Our children will pick up what we say and do on these matters, and, yes, they need to be shielded from some of the worst examples, especially in their immediate family, while they are young.

Quick example of misguided all-sin-is-equal thinking. A good friend of mine was stuck listening to an argument between her sister (pregnant from a one-night stand) and her mom.
Mom: “What the heck were you thinking?!? Why didn’t you at least use a condom or something?”
Daughter: “MOM! I’m Catholic, we don’t believe in birth control!”
Mom: “WE DON’T BELIEVE IN PREMARITAL SEX, EITHER!”

Why is it that everyone who responds to me, implies that I don’t think sin matters? I have not once said that. Nor do I believe that the children should not be taught about sin, but all sin, and all it’s consequences. Please don’t read words or ideals into my posts that aren’t there.

On the contrary, I believe children **should be taught **about these sins that are being lived by the grandparents, and taught the graveness of them. I have not said otherwise at all!

I also believe in Grace. And I believe that this is what Christianity is all about, walking down that narrow road between the two. The old saying, love the sinner, hate the sin really does have meaning, and it’s being lost here.

And the fact that the grandparents are being allowed visitation has not been lost on me either. I’m not illiterate. But another thought is it seems to me that no one seems to be concerned with how all this affects the “SO” either. There is a real person behind those letters, one who is misguided in the attempt to find love in this life, not just an object to be scorned and banished. I’m thinking about the salvation of all these poor souls. Maybe that’s my mistake. I know, I know, the parents only have the responsibility to be a light and example of Christ to the children, right? REALLY?

So, I give. I don’t think I’ll make the mistake of wandering into the MORAL THEOLOGY threads again. I thought the Fundamentalists I left behind were harsh. You guys are brutal! uch: