Honor thy mother?

[Desertmoon]

Hello,

I am seeking advice regarding my relationship with my mother which has been difficult for a number of years. FYI: She is 74, I am 45 and an only child. I am married with 4 children. I live in the middle-east and she is living in Mexico.

She owns a hotel and is frequently in need of money as she spends it without thinking. She also has had many problems with other people in the town she lives in. Last year I had to fly to her because she was involved in a real estate deal that went sour and the other person involved hired someone to try and kill her. She was badly beaten and was saved due to her dog scaring her attacker.

A few months prior to this she was arrested and spent the night in jail because of a car accident. We had to bail her out and pay damages to the person who’s car she hit. (she doesn’t bother to buy insurance)

She is incredibly difficult to deal with and often agressive and disrespectful to others. She is constantly complaining, accusing people of stealing from her, verbally insults her employees and does not get along with any of our other family members either.

She makes very bad decisions and the results of which effect me and my family, emotionally and financially. My husband works very hard and as I said, we have 4 children. We are not in a position to constantly bail her out of financial problems. She makes impulse purchases and rather than turning around and selling things, she asks for money when she has an emergency. She is a massive hoarder and has boats, cars, etc. that she neither takes care of (they rot) nor tries to sell.

I’ve spoken to her and asked that she try and liquidate things that she has no need of in order to take care of herself better. To this she becomes incredibly affronted and begins to insult me using vulgarities.

She is currently visiting me and my family. Today she was complaining about how her employees steal from her, etc. During the course of this conversation, I told her that perhapse if she tried to be a bit less agressive that her employees would like her more and be less tempted to steal or cause her harm (she’s been sued by quite a few of them). The conversation degenerated and now she is not speaking to me saying that I do not “Honor” her as a mother.

The rub is that my honoring her means that I have to do what she says, when she says it and I have to agree with everything she does. She’s asked me to do illegal things for her as well when I was a teenager. During that time of my life she was dating a drug dealer 20 years her junior who was married.

I just cannot deal with her chaos any longer. I TRY very hard to be a good daughter. I’ve flown to be at her side at a moment’s notice during times of emergency (several times). I’m recovering from cancer and I’m really stressed out.

It hurts me that she thinks so little of me and doesn’t appreciate anything I’ve done for her or what I’ve had to endure for her sake.

The minute I open my mouth, she views it as I am not loyal to her.

I don’t want to turn my back on her because I would feel horribly guilty about that especially since she’s in her 70’s. But really, this relationship is incredibly disfunctional and I’m tired of it. And I’m tired of being the one who tries to fix it all the time.

How far does honor thy father and mother go? As a Catholic, do I have to keep putting up with all of this? I have tried and tried, this relationship is draining me emotionally. Would it be sinful to try and distance myself from her? I mean, I don’t want to turn my back on her completely. She is my mother and I’m basically all she has. I’m just at the point where 1) I feel as if I just cannot do any more and 2) I’m plain tired!

Thank you so much for ANY advice.

 

[bonvivantHermit]

See my post “Charitable to abusive family”- maybe on next page.

You have my condolences. You have your own family/life and she is not only abusing your charity, she is endangering you really- she involves you in her criminal acts. Just based on that I would have cut her off years ago. She seems frankly, frightening.

Live a good life, be a testament to her in the way you live. Your children need you.

 

[agnes_therese]

I know this is a difficult situation for you. But to honor your mother does not mean that you have to be a doormat. It also doesn’t mean you have to enable her bad behavior, especially at the expense of your husband and children. Not to mention your own health!

When it comes to her spending habits, look at it this way – if she were an alcoholic and always asking you for whiskey, would you give it to her? Of course not! Giving money to someone who is so irresponsible with it is practically the same thing. You’re just allowing her to continue to escape the consequences of her own actions.

I suggest you sit down and talk with your husband, and make a plan for handling her future requests for money. If you can’t afford to send her any, then tell her that. If you can’t just pick up and get on a plane, then tell her that.

This may sound cold, but your first responsibility is to your husband and your children. Your mother is an adult – even if she doesn’t act like one – and needs to stand on her own two feet.

Pray for her, but don’t let her control your life.

 

[Desertmoon]

Thanks Hermit (I read your thread, brilliant!) and Thanks Agnes, “doormat” is a good word.

It’s just the guilt…So much guilt. I think this is how she’s controlled me in the past. Kind of emotional blackmail.

She’s wearing blinders or something. I mean, she just does NOT get it. She has no idea that she’s abusive. I tell her and she shakes her head at me and laughs in my face as if I’m telling her some kind of absurdity.

If she was rational, it would be easy. But that’s not the case. She honestly, honestly believes that I just want to hurt her and that she’s a very easy person to get along with. I cannot get through to her.

And how awful it must be for a person to genuinely think that their only child is disloyal and against them. That couldn’t be further from the truth! That’s what brings on the guilt. I would be devistated if I thought that one of my kids was intent upon hurting me.

All I want is to see her living a chaos-free, normal life and to be happy.

“This may sound cold, but your first responsibility is to your husband and your children. Your mother is an adult – even if she doesn’t act like one – and needs to stand on her own two feet…”

No, it doesn’t sound cold. I completely agree that my husband and kids should come first. What worries me, is that my kids are watching me. I want them to see that I’m a good daughter. They are too young to properly explain the situation to them. Well, even though today my eldest told me she “felt sorry for me.”

So if they see me distancing myself from my own mother, what kind of example will that be?

 

[aicirt]

Your Mom is 74 and elderly. She has always been difficult but now that might be more pronounced because she is suffering from a disorder such as Alzheimer’s. I don’t know what you can do even if you lived closer to her. If she will not allow you to help (becaues she’s your Mom and she knows what’s best and you are just a kid who should obey her) you can’t. It has to get a lot wrose before it gets better.

At the rate she’s going financially, she’ll probably lose everything. She probably wouldn’t even consider putting you in charge.

Does she have a living will? Has she given anyone Power of Attorney? What happens if she’s in an accident? Who’ll make the decisions?

Continue to live your life, keep in touch, pray.

 

[Desertmoon]

Aicirt, thanks for your reply.

I don’t think it’s Alzheimers.

No, no living will. She’s told me that if she ever ends up hooked to a machine, to “pull the plug.”

Everyone where she lives knows that I’m her only “child.” And my family (her neices) know that everything goes to me. She’s made wills before and now wants to change the last one to not include any of my cousins. She’s mad at them as well.

If she has an accident, I will have to fly to her. If it’s a debilitating accident, I will take over her hotel. No one will contest that because frankly, no one wants the hassles.

I agree 100% that it will get worse. Very sad.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks Hermit (I read your thread, brilliant!) and Thanks Agnes, “doormat” is a good word.

It’s just the guilt…So much guilt. I think this is how she’s controlled me in the past. Kind of emotional blackmail.

She’s wearing blinders or something. I mean, she just does NOT get it. She has no idea that she’s abusive. I tell her and she shakes her head at me and laughs in my face as if I’m telling her some kind of absurdity.

If she was rational, it would be easy. But that’s not the case. She honestly, honestly believes that I just want to hurt her and that she’s a very easy person to get along with. I cannot get through to her.

And how awful it must be for a person to genuinely think that their only child is disloyal and against them. That couldn’t be further from the truth! That’s what brings on the guilt. I would be devistated if I thought that one of my kids was intent upon hurting me.
**
All I want is to see her living a chaos-free, normal life and to be happy. **

“This may sound cold, but your first responsibility is to your husband and your children. Your mother is an adult – even if she doesn’t act like one – and needs to stand on her own two feet…”

No, it doesn’t sound cold. I completely agree that my husband and kids should come first. What worries me, is that my kids are watching me. I want them to see that I’m a good daughter. They are too young to properly explain the situation to them. Well, even though today my eldest told me she “felt sorry for me.”

So if they see me distancing myself from my own mother, what kind of example will that be?

That is a fantasy. It will never happen. For that to happen, she’d have to become a totally different person, and that is highly unlikely to happen, barring a stroke or some other accident.

Your children are indeed watching - does love mean taking abuse from another person, even your own mother? Is that what love truly is? Being emotionally abused by your mother qualifies as love? It is confusing to your children. They see you treating them well, with respect, and then they see the way your mother, their grandmother, treats you. It is not coherent with a loving relationship.

Do some reading on Narcissistic Personality Disorder, NPD. Sounds like your mom qualifies and then some. I am not a medical professional but these people are easy to spot. Unfortunately they are also everywhere and are hard to avoid when they are in our families.

I think you will be much happier if you limit contact with your mother. You can honor her best by not causing yourself more emotional damage, and by praying for her to receive the love of Christ fully in her heart and to heal from the character disorder of narcissism.

 

[constantconvert]

I think the previous posters are correct. Honor means treating with respect, not rescuing, or being responsible for. You are going to have to draw the line. May I ask why you feel so guilty? I think if you addressed this, you might be able to get some peace.

 

[agnes_therese]

So if they see me distancing myself from my own mother, what kind of example will that be?

And if they see you allowing someone to abuse you, what kind of example will that be?

They may understand more than you think; children often do. And as they become older, you can explain more. The example you need to give is of a wife and mother who will not accept anyone’s disrespect of her family, and who can love someone enough to do what’s right for them instead of what’s easy.

 

[exoflare]

And if they see you allowing someone to abuse you, what kind of example will that be?

 

[aicirt]

Aicirt, thanks for your reply.

I don’t think it’s Alzheimers.

No, no living will. She’s told me that if she ever ends up hooked to a machine, to “pull the plug.”

Everyone where she lives knows that I’m her only “child.” And my family (her neices) know that everything goes to me. She’s made wills before and now wants to change the last one to not include any of my cousins. She’s mad at them as well.

If she has an accident, I will have to fly to her. If it’s a debilitating accident, I will take over her hotel. No one will contest that because frankly, no one wants the hassles.

I agree 100% that it will get worse. Very sad.

I didn’t think my Mom had Alzheimer’s because she was always difficult and stubborn. It was.

“Pull the plug”: easier said than done. Hospitals exist to keep people alive. They want to know what the patient wanted and need to see something in writing. You can’t pull the plug. And it needs to be available when the incident happens.

Make sure you have a copy of that will which is necessary if she dies. It doesn’t serve much of a purpose if she’s alive. That is what the POA is for. It gives you the authority to act for her re. the hotel etc. while she’s alive but unavailable.

 

[Desertmoon]

Juliane, thanks, I will Google NPD.

I agree that limiting contact will be my best option. She’s going back to Mexico in 2 weeks (unless she decides to change her flight and leave sooner which she is capable of asking to do). So let’s see what happens tomorrow.

Right now, like I said, she’s not speaking to me. We were invited to a friend of mine’s house for tea today and my friend went out of her way to bake things and have food made and since my mother was angry with me, she refused to go. My kids and I went to my friend’s house without my mother so all that effort on my friend’s part was wasted. My mother didn’t care a whit.

When we were leaving I told her goodbye, no answer. When we got home, she finished the program she was watching on T.V. got up to go to bed. I told her goodnight, no answer.

Praying for her is something I will indeed do.

Constant: thanks for your reply.
She thinks that I’m “against” her every time I open my mouth to state an opinion or observation that’s not in line with her thinking. So as irrational as it is, I feel guilty for making her think that as her only child, I’m criticising her and cannot accept her the way she is. It’s in no way true, but this is the way she thinks. So I’m sure it hurts her on some level. She’s just too stubborn or too irrational to see it any other way. So I’m either with her 100% or I’m against her. There is no grey area. So that’s where the guilt comes in. It bothers me to think that she’s somehow hurt because of misunderstanding my intentions.

Today she told me she was “old” and was not going to change her ways. So basically, it’s up to me to bend to her. She’s my “mother” and it’s up to me to go the extra mile, not her.

I want her to see a therapist. Ironically, SHE was a family therapist at one point in her varied careers. She has a Masters in Social Work. When I was younger she would tell me I was crazy and since she was a therapist, I kind of believed her. So I really want her to talk to someone, but since there is nothing wrong with her, why should she go?

So the situation will not improve on that front.

It’s very sad to have to distance oneself from a parent. And it’s also sad to have a parent who doesn’t feel like a parent.

 

[Desertmoon]

And if they see you allowing someone to abuse you, what kind of example will that be?

They may understand more than you think; children often do. And as they become older, you can explain more. The example you need to give is of a wife and mother who will not accept anyone’s disrespect of her family, and who can love someone enough to do what’s right for them instead of what’s easy.

Yeah, very well said indeed. Thanks

 

[Desertmoon]

Aicirt:

As per Alzheimers, alright, let me look further in to it. It runs in my family.

Regarding a POA, I’ll need to speak to her when she’s in a better mood. But that makes sense. She doesn’t go to the U.S. much at all. If she has a major health issue, she will probably be in Mexico if it happens. I need to look in to this further. That’s good advice because I don’t know what the inheritance laws are in Mexico. The last thing I would want is a legal battle in a foreign country.

Yes, that’s good advice.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Dear DesertMoon,

Bless you for your care in rushing in to help your dear mother! You are so obviously a person :angel1f great patience and compassion. You’re not alone in caring for an elderly family member. I had a somewhat similar relationship like this for many years.

May I suggest that while she is with you that she be seen by a doctor and that several things may be ruled out, such as dementia, or Alzheimers, any undiagnosed illnesses or addictions, so that there will be a possibility of understanding her a little better and getting her some professional and compassionate care?

Your mother seems to create quite of bit of drama! Christ’s heart :heart:goes out to her* but also to you.*

Sometimes it helps people to know that all kinds of angry outbursts and unbelievable behavior is a sign of illness and a call for help. Sometimes people even take every advantage of our compassion, and push us to the limit. I would want the best of both possible worlds for you both: that your mother gets professional help and that you are surrounded by caring friends.

Christ said "I come not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. " and “The whole have no need of a physician.” But of course, the entire family is wounded when one member lashes out.:slapfight::slapfight: You love her, but her actions are so outrageous that you can hardly take a deep breath and even try to think of a solution!

You have a life yourself, so this makes the balancing :juggle:act very hard.

Is there a chance that, (as another poster suggested) you and your mother can talk about wills, medical directives, etc? I worry about her running a business on her own, and worry about her simply exhausting everyone around her if there isn’t a serious conversation about her future.

I know how run down a person can be when caring for an elderly parent. If she is visiting long enough to sit down and really talk, that is a great:heaven: beginning. She may continue behaving as she did, (she has a right to live her life as she pleases) but realizing how many people have gone through this with a family member may help you to feel less alone.

You and your mother are both beloved children of God. You are both in my prayers. It may be very propitious that she is visiting you now, in effect, forcing you to deal with her face to face. Believe me, I know this is difficult, but all her protestations and odd behaviors sound like calls for help.

I pray that there is help out there for her, and that you get the support you need to help her, without sacrificing your own family and sense of peace. Whatever happens, remember, nothing shocks God. Nothing surprises Him and love covers a multitude of sins. Please do come back with an update!!!

All love in Christ
Kathryn Ann:grouphug:

 

[agnes_therese]

It’s very sad to have to distance oneself from a parent. And it’s also sad to have a parent who doesn’t feel like a parent.

Yes, it is. I had to do that, myself, so I feel for you, and will be praying for you.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Juliane, thanks, I will Google NPD.

I agree that limiting contact will be my best option. She’s going back to Mexico in 2 weeks (unless she decides to change her flight and leave sooner which she is capable of asking to do). So let’s see what happens tomorrow.

Right now, like I said, she’s not speaking to me. We were invited to a friend of mine’s house for tea today and my friend went out of her way to bake things and have food made and since my mother was angry with me, she refused to go. My kids and I went to my friend’s house without my mother so all that effort on my friend’s part was wasted. My mother didn’t care a whit.

**Of course not! She is punishing you, pouting like a child. This is the immaturity of a self-centered individual. **

When we were leaving I told her goodbye, no answer. When we got home, she finished the program she was watching on T.V. got up to go to bed. I told her goodnight, no answer.

Praying for her is something I will indeed do.

Constant: thanks for your reply.
She thinks that I’m “against” her every time I open my mouth to state an opinion or observation that’s not in line with her thinking. So as irrational as it is, I feel guilty for making her think that as her only child, I’m criticising her and cannot accept her the way she is. It’s in no way true, but this is the way she thinks. **So I’m sure it hurts her on some level. **She’s just too stubborn or too irrational to see it any other way. So I’m either with her 100% or I’m against her. There is no grey area. So that’s where the guilt comes in. It bothers me to think that she’s somehow hurt because of misunderstanding my intentions.

No, it does NOT hurt her. It makes her ANGRY because you aren’t doing what she wants you to do. She is manipulating you into feeling guilty so that you give in and capitulate.

Today she told me she was “old” and was not going to change her ways. So basically, it’s up to me to bend to her. She’s my “mother” and it’s up to me to go the extra mile, not her.

I want her to see a therapist. Ironically, SHE was a family therapist at one point in her varied careers. She has a Masters in Social Work. When I was younger she would tell me I was crazy and since she was a therapist, I kind of believed her. So I really want her to talk to someone, but since there is nothing wrong with her, why should she go?

A narcissist will NEVER seek treatment because it’s the WORLD that is messed up, not them.

So the situation will not improve on that front. Very true.

It’s very sad to have to distance oneself from a parent. And it’s also sad to have a parent who doesn’t feel like a parent. Also very true.

Read this description. I think your eyes will do this.

Symptoms of this disorder include, but are not limited to:

* Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
* May take advantage of others to reach their own goal
* Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents
* Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
* Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
* Easily becomes jealous
* Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others
* Obsessed with oneself
* Mainly pursues selfish goals
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Is easily hurt and rejected
* Sets unrealistic goals
* Wants "the best" of everything
* Appears as tough-minded or unemotional [4]

That is from Wikipedia. There are other descriptions. I would say “ALWAYS takes advantage of others to reach their own goals.”

And the easily hurt and rejected can be an act in order to manipulate people into feeling sorry for them, so they get their way. As in, your mother.

 

[SurlyMermaid]

Ironically, SHE was a family therapist at one point in her varied careers. She has a Masters in Social Work. When I was younger she would tell me I was crazy and since she was a therapist, I kind of believed her. So I really want her to talk to someone, but since there is nothing wrong with her, why should she go?

So the situation will not improve on that front.

It’s very sad to have to distance oneself from a parent. And it’s also sad to have a parent who doesn’t feel like a parent.

I have an MSW. I’m not surprised your mother was in that professional. Mental health and helping professions in general tend to attract folks who have… shall we say… unresolved issues? My own mother was a nurse who wanted to work in mental health.

Of course she told you were crazy. My own mother did the same to me. It discredits you and validates her. It really, really messes with your head and your self worth to have your own mom be like that. “Mother is God on the lips and hearts of children.” So true.

It is HORRIBLE to have a parent who’s not a parent. You have little foundation and structure. You go through life struggling and feeling like you’re out on the ocean with just random planks of wood to cling to. You feel like an outsider. You don’t believe you are loved or could be loved. How could you? Your own parent didn’t even love you!

Let me tell you, you are lovable and to be treated well. No matter what you’ve done. You probably went along with some of your moms schemes and did some illegal and unethical things with her and for her. Forgive yourself and understand where you were when that happened.

I tell my 7 year-old she hasn’t met her grandmother because we don’t go around people who hurt us or let others hurt us. We respect her, feel sorry for her, and pray for her, but we do not go around her. I also no longer bail her out financially.

God bless you and keep us updated! You’ve gotten great advice from the folks above me!!! :hug1:

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have an MSW. ** I’m not surprised your mother was in that professional. Mental health and helping professions in general tend to attract folks who have… shall we say… unresolved issues? My own mother was a nurse who wanted to work in mental health. **

Of course she told you were crazy. My own mother did the same to me. It discredits you and validates her. It really, really messes with your head and your self worth to have your own mom be like that. “Mother is God on the lips and hearts of children.” So true.

It is HORRIBLE to have a parent who’s not a parent. You have little foundation and structure. You go through life struggling and feeling like you’re out on the ocean with just random planks of wood to cling to. You feel like an outsider. You don’t believe you are loved or could be loved. How could you? Your own parent didn’t even love you!

Let me tell you, you are lovable and to be treated well. No matter what you’ve done. You probably went along with some of your moms schemes and did some illegal and unethical things with her and for her. Forgive yourself and understand where you were when that happened.

I tell my 7 year-old she hasn’t met her grandmother because we don’t go around people who hurt us or let others hurt us. We respect her, feel sorry for her, and pray for her, but we do not go around her. I also no longer bail her out financially.

God bless you and keep us updated! You’ve gotten great advice from the folks above me!!! :hug1:

The very worst type of narcissist would be one wielding the tools of psychology.

 

[constantconvert]

Constant: thanks for your reply.
She thinks that I’m “against” her every time I open my mouth to state an opinion or observation that’s not in line with her thinking. So as irrational as it is, I feel guilty for making her think that as her only child, I’m criticising her and cannot accept her the way she is. It’s in no way true, but this is the way she thinks. So I’m sure it hurts her on some level. She’s just too stubborn or too irrational to see it any other way. So I’m either with her 100% or I’m against her. There is no grey area. So that’s where the guilt comes in. It bothers me to think that she’s somehow hurt because of misunderstanding my intentions.

It’s very sad to have to distance oneself from a parent. And it’s also sad to have a parent who doesn’t feel like a parent.

So you see that your guilt is irrational, do not give in to it. The same way you would resist other irrational impulses you can resist this one. If you had the urge to stick your hand in a pot of boiling water, you would be able to resist because that would be horrible. Rescuing your mom is destructive too.

Get with your husband. Figure out a game plan to the next crisis that will come. Have a planned response, a set amount of money, even a set speech in response to her phone call. Figure out exactly what you as a married couple will and will not do.

Personally, I would not give her another red cent.

I am really sorry that your mom isn’t really a mom. I know that is so heart breaking. You have to accept the way things are. Mary is your mother. Rely on her.