Honoring Father & Mother vs. Leave and Cleave

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Strawberri98

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My MIL is a terrible problem in our marriage of six years (together for nine). We have been in counseling off and on for 3 years working though mostly problems that originate with her and her behavior towards us.

She is shockingly selfish, a wicked gossip, meddlesome, overbearing and horrifically manipulative in both our relationship, our relationships with our friends and other family members, as well as in our business dealings that she has no interest in. She knows/acknowledges no boundaries, and is a pathological liar. She kept our kids one day a week, since our son was 4 months old, and she has consistently created so much conflict between our parenting of our kids and the way she thinks we should parent, that it has created very aggressive tendencies in our son, because all he knows is inconsistent parenting.

She did something truly disgustingly cruel five years ago that destroyed me (us) and I haven’t found it in me to forgive her of this action (she graciously forgave herself a couple of weeks after we discovered what she had done, she gloatingly told me).

Things came to a head six weeks ago, and I stepped in and said she couldn’t see the kids or me until we worked some things out in family counseling. Our session is tomorrow and I am not prepared. This last six weeks has been some of the best time we’ve had in our marriage and with our kids, because the constant demands and picking and hovering presence of my MIL has been missing. I know that the crushing expectation in my husbands family is that I will come to my senses and understand that I am to honor father and mother, which in her mind means write a blank check with our lives over to her for whatever she wants of us.

Our counselor says otherwise, but also is terribly vague about making sure my heart is softened and that I do as God has asked of me, but in all of my prayer and reflection of the last six weeks, all I hear is that she is so full of sin and wickedness, and it is her sin that continues to cause me to sin, and that I need to not be around her and severely limit the time my kids are around her.

I am so confused about what I feel is the right thing to do, and what God is calling me to do.

I can have compassion for her and the things she struggles against, that make her the way she is, but thats not enough for her, she wants to force a close relationship which requires I look the other way at all of the things that she does and just make allowances for her because thats what everyone has always done her entire life.

Im tired of seeing my husband and kids put into strained positions because of this, and as I grew up with a similar situation between my mom and my dad’s mom, I know how hard this is on kids and I will not watch my kids go through this. How do I keep my family and myself on the path to righteousness, while this person seeks to knock us off the path for her own selfish comforts???
Advice please?
 
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Sometimes a parent is so toxic that the best way to honor them is to not allow your self to be an occasion of sin for them. You also have responsibility for the mental health of your family, especially your children. Other than that, there isn’t much more to say. Listen to your therapist.
 
That’s where I am confused, is counselor gently guiding me back to keeping MIL in my life? Because I know that there is no healthy place with this woman, and my life will continue to be battleground.

Or is counselor showing me how to find peace and strength in firmer boundaries to keep her toxicity from reaching us?
 
You are under no obligations to have a relationship with an abuser (and make no mistake this is abuse if as described). You are under an obligation to protect your children, spouse, and family.

The 4th commandment does not require that you subject your family to a mentally ill person. Your husband can honor his parents by caring for them if ill, spending time with them alone if he is able, and refraining from contact if he is not able due to their behavior. If he can have a relationship with his dad only or siblings only, that may be what you have to do.

Do not allow your child into their care. Frankly I would cut all contact, period.
 
Strawberri98 said:
That’s where I am confused, is counselor gently guiding me back to keeping MIL in my life? Because I know that there is no healthy place with this woman, and my life will continue to be battleground.

Or is counselor showing me how to find peace and strength in firmer boundaries to keep her toxicity from reaching us?
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You need to ask your counselor and may need to find another one if they subscribe to some wonky notion you must keep toxic people in your life and try to manage the toxicity. NO WAY!
 
I trust our counselor very much, and I think where she’s coming from is biblical, in that we are to forgive our enemies twenty times twenty, like God has forgiven us. And we are to love our enemies, that we are to show grace and love to those who curse us.

We all agree that she has some form of mental illness, which she has chosen to only medicate the symptoms , but not undergone any kind of behavior modification or counseling, so the anxieties & behaviors persist until the medication no longer works because she overcomes their effects, and needs to up the dosage.

My biggest concern is that my husband is being hurt in all of this. The kids and I have avoided seeing them, but we are in the process of succession of the family business right now, so my husband is often required to go over to their home to work. When he does his mom hangs all over him and cries and wails about not seeing the kids and how she can’t live like this, and how she can’t change. He is so stressed out by the whole thing he started having concerning physical symptoms.

At what point is it my obligation as his wife and partner to give in and keep trying to manage her in order to show him love in the way he needs it?
 
Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you excuse the behaviour or that you have to allow a toxic person back in your life.

FIL is cut off from our family - Hubby’s choice. He made derogatory comments about me and my stepdaughter, tried to destroy our marriage, mooched off us financially and put us thousands of dollars in debt, then said Hubby was a “crazy man” when Hubby called him on it. He has since morphed into Granddad That We Don’t See.

We pray for him. We forgive him. Doesn’t mean that we are expected to suck it up and take it.
 
Strawberri98 said:
I trust our counselor very much, and I think where she’s coming from is biblical, in that we are to forgive our enemies twenty times twenty, like God has forgiven us. And we are to love our enemies, that we are to show grace and love to those who curse us.
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Neither loving nor forgiving need include contact with an abuser. You can do both and maintain boundaries.
 
Strawberri98 said:
At what point is it my obligation as his wife and partner to give in and keep trying to manage her in order to show him love in the way he needs it?
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Given the rampant mental illness, there isn’t a point where you “give in” and subject yourself and children to abuse.

Also you should consider the family business may not be worth it
 
My suggestion is that you guys move to another city. If what you say is true nothing is going to change. At least limit the amount of time you spend with her.
 
This will seem uncharitable to some, but you have made the effort and it isn’t working out. If she is a problem, file a restraining order ASAP. It might get it through her head she is being the problem.
 
We are farmers, so there is no moving away, and not much chance of changing the family farm/business situation. But we do already run our own small business independent of my in-laws so we would be fine financially if we had to walk away from the farm.

My husband tries to mediate, but he’s trapped in this place of trying to defend and support his wife and honor his parents. His default response to her has always been to just give her what she wants because she’s going to get it one way or another, and better to insulate himself from her than engage in battle. After the argument 6 weeks ago though, his viewpoint about staying neutral is evolving, as he’d never seen her go after someone like she did to me.

As far as applying my knowledge that there is no healthy place with this woman, lets say that my husband and I have yet to witness one, but as he once told me, I’m the only person he’s ever known who would dare go up against her for what I believe is right time and again, and not buckle under her tactics. Counselor says that a third party such as her will be the one to hold MIL accountable to the boundaries that we set. But she’s the type to smile and nod to our faces and then backdoor me as soon as I relax, and then when we say that’s wrong to do xyz, she’ll say that she didn’t realize that’s what we meant by that boundary and she’s very sorry, and then will move on to the next tactic. She’s a crazymaker for sure.

I know that I am not without sin, and that I’ve done some things wrong in this relationship myself. And really more than anything, I’m just struggling to know, when is it God speaking and when is it Satan? Is it Satan telling me to keep working on this relationship, or is it God? How do I find the stamina to keep doing this?
 
There really doesn’t seem to be a “relationship” with this woman to begin with.

Enough is Enough. I agree with the others we are not obligated to continue toxic relationships. Consider yourself done with the relationship. You have gone above and beyond to try to improve this and even are in counseling for assistance for the issue. You are obligated to do no more.

Let your husband find a reasonable solution as far as seeing his mother and taking the kids over for a visit with him present to visit.

God bless you for your efforts to change this relationship for the better and I wish you well.
 
Strawberri98 said:
I can have compassion for her and the things she struggles against, that make her the way she is, but thats not enough for her,
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“Honor your mother” doesn’t mean she necessarily gets what she thinks is “enough” or what she wants all the time.

By having compassion for her, praying for her, maybe spending some occasional one-on-one time with her if you set boundaries and stick to them, you’d be honoring her enough. Your husband doesn’t have to be exposing his spouse and especially your child to her if she is constantly upsetting them or encouraging your son to act in an unhealthy way contrary to your own parenting.
 
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We are also farmers and understand the complexities of a family farm. You may need to walk away from that if it is the thing that binds you to contact with this woman. If you can complete the transition without contact with her, fine. But I have a feeling this financial entanglement will be a way for her to lord it over your and your DH, so it is something to be aware of and prepared for especially if you cut off contact socially.

I think you really need to cut contact completely.
 
Family farm entanglements are nothing new to DH and I, nor his parents. He was fighting family farming complications with his parents and extended family long before I ever entered the picture. In this regard both of his parents are meddlers and seem to glory in unnecessary complications, so we have a fairly secure path how to combat these business issues. Hubby doesn’t shrink from setting and defending hard and fast boundaries in his work/career sphere, it’s on the personal/emotional side that the subject matter and tactics become confusing and more gray to him.

I plan to talk more with counselor regarding this whole approach, as well as my parish priest. I want to do what is the best for my husband and kids without losing myself completely in the process, and not compromising my place in eternity.

Thank you everyone for your advice and for letting me work some of these things out here is this safe space. God Bless you all.
 
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